Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-11-2016, 10:22 PM   #261
Veteran Member
 
City: Toledo
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
I like your choice of boat but as for engines there are lots of erly engines that seem to run forever to choose from for power like the Ford Lehman for one

I don't know that its fair to compare old NA Lehman's to electronically controlled high HP volvos/cummins QSB etc. It does seem the volvos and cummins have some issues that the Lehman's don't but it seems to be related to the exhaust systems (when neglected) and their forced induction systems as well as their tendency to run at higher RPMs. These engines however can do things that the Ford Lehman couldn't dream of doing with tremendous efficiency - like other things boat related - a compromise.

Given the choice between a modern electronic John Deere/Northern Lights/Yanmar in the middle of the Atlantic compared to an air cooled deutz I'll pick the electronic time and time again.
__________________
Advertisement

devorenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 10:44 PM   #262
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
Ok, go read the post "my cummins just stopped". That $hit aint gonna work for me 1500 miles out in the Atlantic. Electronic controlled diesel engines are NO BETTER than electronic controlled gas engines. The best thing about diesel engines, back in the day of real compression ignition engines was that if you could make it spin you could make it run. I can make a Cummins or DD run. I can get a DetroitDiesel to run on 1 cylinder, continuously. Try that with a QSB.
__________________

kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 11:02 PM   #263
Veteran Member
 
City: Toledo
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
Ok, go read the post "my cummins just stopped". That $hit aint gonna work for me 1500 miles out in the Atlantic. Electronic controlled diesel engines are NO BETTER than electronic controlled gas engines. The best thing about diesel engines, back in the day of real compression ignition engines was that if you could make it spin you could make it run. I can make a Cummins or DD run. I can get a DetroitDiesel to run on 1 cylinder, continuously. Try that with a QSB.
I would assume that is why you don't see many Cummins (or other high HP low displacement forced induction) diesels on passagemakers (Though I know there is at least one Nordy with Cummins motors) . But you do see many JD/Yanmar/Northern Lights engines rated for continuous use in them and I don't see too many people complaining about getting stuck in the middle of the pacific. I guess theoretically in the event that the mains give up the ghost there is some advantage to an all mechanical motor but I would imagine most of the folks buying passage-makers are willing to risk having to run on the get home in the highly unlikely event of a catastrophic electronic failure of the mains then to have to live with the downsides of the old mechanical motor all the other times.
devorenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 07:49 AM   #264
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
Ok, go read the post "my cummins just stopped". That $hit aint gonna work for me 1500 miles out in the Atlantic. Electronic controlled diesel engines are NO BETTER than electronic controlled gas engines. The best thing about diesel engines, back in the day of real compression ignition engines was that if you could make it spin you could make it run. I can make a Cummins or DD run. I can get a DetroitDiesel to run on 1 cylinder, continuously. Try that with a QSB.
Any engine that depends on the electronics to run adds another point of failure to the system. Simpler is better, even at the expense of fuel consumption and carbon footprint. The old days engine only used the battery for starting, and glow plugs on a very cold day (only during starting).
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 08:07 AM   #265
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
Folks with an older mechanical injection diesel might want to contemplate a gravity feed from a day tank, to the engine for even better reliability.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 04:33 PM   #266
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by stubones99 View Post
Any engine that depends on the electronics to run adds another point of failure to the system. Simpler is better, even at the expense of fuel consumption and carbon footprint. The old days engine only used the battery for starting, and glow plugs on a very cold day (only during starting).
That is why a motor sailor or sail axillary is the superior open water boat. Pure power boats have been invading open water but if there is no redundant drive system the gamble gets bigger.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 04:40 PM   #267
Veteran Member
 
City: Toledo
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
That is why a motor sailor or sail axillary is the superior open water boat. Pure power boats have been invading open water but if there is no redundant drive system the gamble gets bigger.
I think the more important truth here is that marine diesels (old ones, new ones, whatever) rarely fail and when they do it is due to fuel issues which will disable your wing/second engine as well. The passage-makers deal with this in a number of ways but a sail is the most robust alternative.
devorenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 07:34 PM   #268
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
That is why a motor sailor or sail auxillary is the superior open water boat. Pure power boats have been invading open water but if there is no redundant drive system the gamble gets bigger.
Thus, power-boaters live on the "edge"?
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 08:36 PM   #269
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
Hi stubones99, I see you're from Merritt Island. There's a big soft place in my heart for that little spit of land. Was living there when in college and my dad still does after 30 years, right across from Patrick AFB.

I agree with your comments about needed dependability of one's engine, and personally my ideal "tractor" engine would not be a Deutz but instead I would go back to my old DD6-71N.

I am concerned about the reliability of the electronics of my new engine considering that I will be sailing in remote locations. Will rig a backup sail plan to push me along at one or two knots when needed.

I have to admit though that the fuel consumption on these new engines is amazing compared to the old iron. 22 hp/g-hr versus about 16 on the Gray Marine. Since I'll soon be pushing 60 tons through the water, that savings will surely add up.
The improvement comes from closer tolerances and computer control of fuel air ratio in relation to engine load and altitude. I've been toying with the idea of converting one of the old irons just to see how one would do. The cpu can keep the f/a ratio correct at all times but would require electronic injectors for D, gas could be easy with the installation of a simple throtle body based system
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 08:51 PM   #270
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
I read a report about converting a Detroit 4-53 to electronic controll. They used the injectors and ECM from a 4-71 DDEC. At the end of it they hadnt found a way to raise the rpm limit in the ECM. The 4-53 does well at 2800 rpm, the 4-71 ECM was limited to 2100.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 09:55 PM   #271
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
I read a report about converting a Detroit 4-53 to electronic controll. They used the injectors and ECM from a 4-71 DDEC. At the end of it they hadnt found a way to raise the rpm limit in the ECM. The 4-53 does well at 2800 rpm, the 4-71 ECM was limited to 2100.
If the 4-71 ECM isnt programmable you will just have to build your own ECM. Will take some knowledge of digital electronics and a scematic of the ECM. Its doable but is it worth the effort? Do you have a schematic of the ECM?
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 09:59 PM   #272
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorenm View Post
and when they do it is due to fuel issues which will disable your wing/second engine as well. .
As Ronald Reagan said, "here we go again."
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 10:03 PM   #273
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulas44 View Post
Ok, go read the post "my cummins just stopped".
Wiring harness got wet. It could prevent my non ECM engine from starting as well, or any other non ECM diesel with an electric starter. There is no choice, any new diesel is going to be "electronic." For many years now TIER XYZ pretty well mandates electronic engines.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 10:24 PM   #274
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
A lot of people wouldn't use radial tieres when they came out either.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012