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Old 10-14-2016, 11:03 AM   #1
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:37 AM   #2
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After reading the article, the tribe seems to want to use this to encourage a moratorium on tanker traffic... This had nothing to do with oil transportation it was a screw up by the tug crew. a few years ago a bc ferry sank close by Hartley Bay (same general area) same screw up by the crew but no outrage and wanting to ban ferry traffic....

Now let me say this is a pristine area, and and any kind of environmental damage is unconscionable... but special interest groups can't seem to let any crisis be wasted on promoting their views, relevant or not.
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:10 PM   #3
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Ka Sea ta,
Crews of any kind of vessel "screw up" causing accidents. Huge variations of risk result from good oversight or lack of same.
IMO there should be much more oversight on vessels carrying large quanites of oil. The oil accidents just keep happening and for obvious reasons. It's only going to cost money to nearly fix the problem.

Don't make an international incident out of it as if a Canadian vessel spilled lots of oil in the San Juan Is it would be the same.

And there will soon be very little farm land in the Skagit area as a result of too many people but almost nothing is being done about it. I'm often with the special interest groups. Not usually though. But the steady increase in people and the economic and destructive machine they have will obviously consume the earth if things continue as they are. Or perhaps nature will consume humans before then but things will definitely get worse before they get better ..... IF EVER.
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:23 PM   #4
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Ka Sea ta,
Crews of any kind of vessel "screw up" causing accidents. Huge variations of risk result from good oversight or lack of same.
IMO there should be much more oversight on vessels carrying large quanites of oil. The oil accidents just keep happening and for obvious reasons.
Don't make an international incident out of it as if a Canadian vessel spilled lots of oil in the San Juan Is it would be the same.
The fuel barge was empty, the spill was from the tug. I can't disagree a fully loaded barge or tanker should have extra precautions available, which why a tug is stationed at Neah Bay just in case there is a problem with a petroleum carrying vessel in the straits... My issue is that special interest groups will use any crisis to try to advance their agenda whether or not the crisis has any relevancy... In this case the tug could just as easy had a barge of gravel, containers or flowers and the result would have been the same.
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Old 10-15-2016, 11:52 AM   #5
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After reading the article, the tribe seems to want to use this to encourage a moratorium on tanker traffic... This had nothing to do with oil transportation it was a screw up by the tug crew. a few years ago a bc ferry sank close by Hartley Bay (same general area) same screw up by the crew but no outrage and wanting to ban ferry traffic....

Now let me say this is a pristine area, and and any kind of environmental damage is unconscionable... but special interest groups can't seem to let any crisis be wasted on promoting their views, relevant or not.

Wow! Where to begin? First of all this occurred in Canada and as such it is a Canadian issue with Canadian sensitivities. Canadian "Tribes" are known as First Nations, and I'll bet that US Tribes would agree this is the Heiltsuk's privilege (for want of a better word) to express their concerns. These are their lands and waters and they are more than a special interest group! If this had occurred off Neal Bay, I wonder what the Makah Tribe would have said? Furthermore, most of the First Nations in these areas have expressed similar and united concerns on tanker traffic.

I've seen the Nathan E. Stewart in these areas and it was way, way off course. And if it had been way, way off course with a full barge it would have been much worse.
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Old 10-15-2016, 12:04 PM   #6
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I have been thru that area many times myself on tugs going back and forth to AK, towing, not pushing barges, sometimes two. Its not a difficult area but like most of the Inside Passage it demands the navigators full attention. Somehow that didn't happen. Good that the barge was empty, and also good there was no loss of life which is more important than the rest of it.
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:38 PM   #7
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Wow! Where to begin? First of all this occurred in Canada and as such it is a Canadian issue with Canadian sensitivities. Canadian "Tribes" are known as First Nations, and I'll bet that US Tribes would agree this is the Heiltsuk's privilege (for want of a better word) to express their concerns. These are their lands and waters and they are more than a special interest group! If this had occurred off Neal Bay, I wonder what the Makah Tribe would have said? Furthermore, most of the First Nations in these areas have expressed similar and united concerns on tanker traffic.

I've seen the Nathan E. Stewart in these areas and it was way, way off course. And if it had been way, way off course with a full barge it would have been much worse.
All too often the "first nations" seem to be really vocal about the impact on the environment. .... right up to the point they get royalties or compensation. One trip out to Neah bay and look at all the garbage strewn about kind of taints their argument.
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:44 PM   #8
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Too many unknowns not discovered/disclosed yet.
Can't guess the reason. Well, sure. Could make a few assumptions but they would serve no purpose.

The ais track is non existent on marine traffic. Did anyone take a screenshot of the past track before it was timed out?
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post

And there will soon be very little farm land in the Skagit area as a result of too many people but almost nothing is being done about it. I'm often with the special interest groups. Not usually though. But the steady increase in people and the economic and destructive machine they have will obviously consume the earth if things continue as they are. Or perhaps nature will consume humans before then but things will definitely get worse before they get better ..... IF EVER.

Can't resist!! There is quite a bit of room in Thorne Bay, Ak. for new comers.

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Old 10-15-2016, 07:56 PM   #10
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I've seen the Nathan E. Stewart in these areas and it was way, way off course. And if it had been way, way off course with a full barge it would have been much worse.
Now on the surface, this is a damming statement. Any chance a bit of factual detail could be added to it?? Not in any way defending what is obviously an error in navigation, just curious if "Way,Way" can be defined a bit.

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Old 10-15-2016, 08:40 PM   #11
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Look at the AIS position on marine traffic.com
for through traffic he had no business down amongst those islands

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Old 10-15-2016, 08:58 PM   #12
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Look at the AIS position on marine traffic.com
for through traffic he had no business down amongst those islands

Ted

That only shows 'last position'. That has no track info. The track info only lasts for 12 or 24 hours then deletes. Unless you are a paid member. It would be illuminating to see where she was running immediately previous.
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Old 10-15-2016, 09:33 PM   #13
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Thanks Ted, Cappy.

As I continually advise my wife,(Very gently) 'Assumptions often prove fatal and wrong'
I now suppose the wait for the official investigation and in the interm, enjoy wine and cheese on the aft deck.

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Old 10-15-2016, 10:37 PM   #14
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I was hoping this would just die a quiet death but now, as Jim said "where to begin?"

Let's start with a geography lesson;
Haida Gwaii and the Alaska Highway are in Northern BC.
Bella Bella and Edge Reef are on the BC Central Coast.

Al; the attached chart and satellite shot show the area which is about 1nm at its widest and yes the Nathan E. Stewart was way, way off course.

Ted; this is its regular route and as predicted, it was when, not if.
https://vimeo.com/127905057

The Yanks call it part of their highway and the RO RO Kennicott went through there while I was writing this.
http://alaskaferryvacations.com/Vessel_Kennicott.htm

cappy208; really nowhere else to be other than a very cautious and deliberate course.

0100, an hour before watch change, gee what could go wrong?

Special interest group?
What is that?
Is it sorta, kinda, like a quilting bee or cumquat tasters club? A de Fever Owners Group, maybe?

Anyway,word out of Nuxalk Nation is, every "tribe" from Wewaikai to Kitkala has stretched a doe skin over a hollow stump and is thumping out k'n tse t'w. I guess you might call that a special interest.

Pray the raven brings clean fuel kemosabe.

Now…back to hibernation
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:08 AM   #15
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Wow! Where to begin? First of all this occurred in Canada and as such it is a Canadian issue with Canadian sensitivities. Canadian "Tribes" are known as First Nations, and I'll bet that US Tribes would agree this is the Heiltsuk's privilege (for want of a better word) to express their concerns. These are their lands and waters and they are more than a special interest group! If this had occurred off Neal Bay, I wonder what the Makah Tribe would have said? Furthermore, most of the First Nations in these areas have expressed similar and united concerns on tanker traffic.

I've seen the Nathan E. Stewart in these areas and it was way, way off course. And if it had been way, way off course with a full barge it would have been much worse.
I think that I didn't explain myself very well, This is not meant to be any kind of besmirching statement about the first nations or the Canadians. Mine was a reaction to this statement in the article

"This is a stirring reminder that the north coast oil tanker moratorium cannot be legislated fast enough, Heiltsuk Tribal Council Chief Councillor Marilyn Slett said in a statement. We must take note, however, that tanker barges like this might not even be included in the ban. The band needs to be complete, and spill response must be improved.

Specifically the ban on tanker traffic... This spill could have happened with any vessel and the barge didn't spill a drop... It was the diesel from the tug... I don't see a connection between the tug sinking and the ban on tanker traffic... It reminds of a statement I believe from Rob Emanuel "never let a crisis go to waste"

The special interest group statement was based on my observation of the groups that wanted to ban tanker traffic in the straits of Juan de Fuca...
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:58 AM   #16
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Mine was a reaction to this statement in the article

"This is a stirring reminder that the north coast oil tanker moratorium cannot be legislated fast enough, Heiltsuk Tribal Council Chief Councillor Marilyn Slett said in a statement. We must take note, however, that tanker barges like this might not even be included in the ban. The band needs to be complete, and spill response must be improved.

The special interest group statement was based on my observation of the groups that wanted to ban tanker traffic in the straits of Juan de Fuca...

This is an issue of knee jerk reactions. In the US after a 2003 tug barge grounding / spill a special interest group in Buzzards Bay specifically singled out 'tug and barges' as being deficient and needing pilots and escort tugs. (Ala Neah Bay tug mentioned earlier). Strangely ships were left out. Unlike the west coast laws that specifically regulate ships and NOT tugs.

This occurred one hour after watch change. Seeing past track would illuminate when the error chain started. It's possible the tug was heading either in or out for a Crew change in the middle of a voyage. So many variables.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:06 PM   #17
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news

This will be of interest to some I think.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:32 PM   #18
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This will be of interest to some I think.
Before I click on this link (for computer security reasons), I would like to have a better idea of what it contains.

The cleanup of this event is not proceeding well. The oil containment booms failed due to recent poor weather events. The booms have been redeployed but I wonder how successful these are in the heavy seas in the area. The tug remains on the reef and is being buffeted around in the heavy seas. Evidently the local resources in the area are not up to the job. This is a very sparsely populated area and the Canadian Coast Guard is insufficiently equipped to deal with this event.

Booms fixed after wind spreads diesel fuel from tug sunk near Bella Bella - British Columbia - CBC News

Owner of stricken tugboat apologizes for diesel spill - British Columbia - CBC News

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Old 10-24-2016, 02:47 PM   #19
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Its a letter from the Pacific Pilotage Authority (BC) pertaining to changes being made for transiting BC waters.
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:08 PM   #20
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Its a letter from the Pacific Pilotage Authority (BC) pertaining to changes being made for transiting BC waters.
Thanks 78PT. An interesting read, to be sure! I note that there is a discrepancy concerning transit of Grenville channel on Page 1 (that the master must be on the bridge) and Page 2 where it notes that the northern Areas of the inside passage are restricted (including Grenville). Perhaps I am missing something.

I'm sure that PSNeeld will chastise me for jumping to conclusions, but I'll bet that someone was "asleep at the wheel" in this incident.

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