Tug Aground-Sank Northern B.C.

[Xsbank]

That's great, Little Potato is spending more of my money. About time they spent some near where I live.

They gutted the lighthouse weather system and the marine weather is virtually useless. All coast guard rescue is done by volunteers, the fisheries department can't tell its arse from a barnacle and I think there might be, oh, three ships that actually float with "Ottawa" written on their stern. The north coast and the southern straits rely entirely on the US Coast Guard to help us (thank you) and our fearless leaders have finally been shamed into getting off their fat pensioned butts and appear to be doing something all because of one lousy clam bed. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[Wxx3]

That's great, Little Potato is spending more of my money. About time they spent some near where I live.

They gutted the lighthouse weather system and the marine weather is virtually useless. All coast guard rescue is done by volunteers, the fisheries department can't tell its arse from a barnacle and I think there might be, oh, three ships that actually float with "Ottawa" written on their stern. The north coast and the southern straits rely entirely on the US Coast Guard to help us (thank you) and our fearless leaders have finally been shamed into getting off their fat pensioned butts and appear to be doing something all because of one lousy clam bed. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

hear, hear

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. X. Re: post #61. Am I correct in assuming that the "gutting" of the west coast marine system was as a result of Harper cutbacks? If so, what is the problem with "Little Potato" attempting to right these wrongs?

Generally, it is quite difficult to sift through news reports from anywhere one doesn't live to find out the REAL story.

 

[MurrayM]

That's great, Little Potato is spending more of my money. About time they spent some near where I live.

They gutted the lighthouse weather system and the marine weather is virtually useless. All coast guard rescue is done by volunteers, the fisheries department can't tell its arse from a barnacle and I think there might be, oh, three ships that actually float with "Ottawa" written on their stern. The north coast and the southern straits rely entirely on the US Coast Guard to help us (thank you) and our fearless leaders have finally been shamed into getting off their fat pensioned butts and appear to be doing something all because of one lousy clam bed. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

It all began when...Harper slashed taxes to corporations with no conditions as to how much of the money should be reinvested or stay within Canada. Most companies either held onto the money or moved operations to cheaper countries with less annoying environmental laws or workers rights. Harper then slashed things like the Coast Guard to claw back some of those lost taxes. Another trickle down economics failure.

 

[twistedtree]

In trickle down economics, there is definitely a trickle down. But at the same time it's gushing up. Sounds good to the people who are "down", and works out great for the people who are "up".

 

[Xsbank]

Hi RT,

The gutting was just perfected under Harper, it had begun long before. When I first flew the north coast in the '70s there were regular (if not hourly, my memory playing tricks) lighthouse weather reports from a giant network of manned lighthouses on the coast. We had a teletype machine that printed useful data on request. They automated the lighthouses (fired the families that lived there) and now we get (3?) daily reports from machines that are frequently unserviceable or data missing.

BC has been long ignored by Ottawa while sending vast piles of cash there to run the rest of the country.

It has been said that Canada runs in practice but does not run in theory. I prefer to think of Canada as an arrogant country that strives to be banal.

Cue the chaos and Keystone Cops response to one lousy tugboat where the captain probably fell asleep. (Did you know that our earnest Arctic Rangers have been equipped with Lee Enfield rifles and Skidoos?)

 

[koliver]

That's great, Little Potato is spending more of my money. About time they spent some near where I live.

They gutted the lighthouse weather system and the marine weather is virtually useless. All coast guard rescue is done by volunteers, the fisheries department can't tell its arse from a barnacle and I think there might be, oh, three ships that actually float with "Ottawa" written on their stern. The north coast and the southern straits rely entirely on the US Coast Guard to help us (thank you) and our fearless leaders have finally been shamed into getting off their fat pensioned butts and appear to be doing something all because of one lousy clam bed. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

XS, my own experience (over 40 years) on this coast begs to disagree.

The lighthouse weather reports, now available over apps like Sailflow and Windfinder give current data and predictions that are the most accurate and reliable of any time during that period. Far from being useless, I can now convince my very skeptical wife that it is safe for me to cross the Gulf alone (which I did on Friday) simply on the basis of checking that single source. In prior years weather reporting for the Gulf of Georgia was a joke. The data used comes from Ocean Bouys, automated lighthouse reports, and the remaining manned weather stations. Proof positive that the current system is better than any we have had before.

Most Rescue is still done by Coast Guard resources, who are there 24/7/365 and in locations that cover the whole coast. Yes, there are RCMSAR (I am a member of one) volunteer FRV (Fast Response Vessels) that assist. IIRC that level of assistance has increased to about 1/3 of the total, and will likely continue to increase, but your statement is simply wrong.

There is a fleet of 33 boats in the Western Coast Guard fleet. The 47 foot Cape Naden is stationed in Ganges, launched in 2010, was part of an expansion of the CG presence in the region. There is also a 733 FRV operated by the Ganges full time CG.

The nearest RCMSAR vessel is at Vesuvius. On any tasking around Saltspring, JRCC will task whichever available resource will be best able to provide the assistance required. There is likely some ability to ask the USCG for assistance, where they may be closer. That would be determined by JRCC. I know of no time when we have relied upon US resources in preference to our own

What has been recently announced due to the "one lousy clam bed" will likely have zero impact on any of the above.

 

[Xsbank]

Good morning, K. There are plenty of resources available around Vancouver and Victoria and I have listened to many response calls from the US Coast Guard to emergencies in our waters, especially in the northern waters.

How can you argue that we have a good system if you simply observe the response to that one tug?

I got stuck in Nanaimo due to winds and the only way we finally got across was to hike across Newcastle Island and look at the water. It's a 4 1/2 hour crossing to Pender for us and the weather reports are too elusive to be able to actually plan, it's largely luck. One crossing we did we found the winds in Malaspina to be much higher than forecast, we were slowed to 3 1/2 knots because the water over the bow was crazy. There was no update published until well after we had tied up in our slip.

Sailflow and Windfinder are private companies and are useless north of Campbell River. If you do all your boating in the lower Gulf you are well-served but try getting the w/x for Port Neville or even Port McNeill on those apps?

There is one volunteer rubber boat in Port McNeill and the next closest to the north is Ocean Falls. That's pretty thin on the water on the central coast as the government continues to shirk its responsibility and rely on volunteers (I am not trashing volunteers, I think relying on donations to operate a highly technical response system is a travesty).

We can do better - Swiss Air Ambulance is an insurance system. It used to be 85 Swiss francs per year and a Swiss ambulance will pick you up anywhere on the planet. Their mountain rescue corps is a model for the world.

Why can't we do it better? We have a unique coastline and unique requirements and I see earnest people doing their best with next to no support.

I know that my opinion is controversial but I think the system could be so much better. To add insult to (my) injury, I keep hearing how good it all is.

 

[dhays]

I think that most boaters in the PNW feel that we could use more resources both in emergency response and in weather reports. If I recall correctly, there are only two buoys in Georgia Strait, Sentry Shoal and Halibut Bank. As a boater, I would be happier with a bit more coverage. However, if you look at the Puget Sound area you will see that there are very few weather buoys in my area as well. Even North there isn't any type of buoy in Rosario Strait which would be very helpful.

As for emergency resources, I recall responding to a call about an engine fire on a boat. The USCG did dispatch a helicopter, but since there was no immediate need to evacuate the crew of the vessel they couldn't do much but coordinate. It took an hour to get any type of assistant boat to the vessel in distress. Too long in my opinion.

As you mentioned, I think that our respective Coast Guard services do a good job with the resources they have. I just wish they had more resources available.

 

[psneeld]

Hmmmm...boat fire and the USCG helo didn't respond with a drop can of extinguishers?


Must have either changed policy on those cans (they usually had at least 6 to 8 pretty good sized ones in them) or it was diverted and didn't leave from the Air Station.

 

[dhays]

Hmmmm...boat fire and the USCG helo didn't respond with a drop can of extinguishers?


Must have either changed policy on those cans (they usually had at least 6 to 8 pretty good sized ones in them) or it was diverted and didn't leave from the Air Station.

Good question. By the time the helo had arrived (it took quite a while) the fire was extinguished for the most part. I and another sailboat both offered to board and assist with the fire and/or pass them our own extinguishers, but that offer was refused as well since they felt they had the fire under control. Not really sure that was true as they were still getting buckets of water from over the side and dumping them into the ER.

Eventually a fireboat arrived and shortly after a Vessel Assist boat. The Vessel Assist got a nice fee for the tow and the fire crew got a nice high speed trip from Tacoma to the South Sound.

 

[Xsbank]

We can always do better. Take a few moments longer to actually think about the problem and it's amazing what you can come up with.

For the record, I started operating on the coast from Ketchikan to Seattle in the mid-70s so I've seen it change too, mostly not for the better. Yes, it's possible to operate on the Coast for years without an incident and without the need for some kind of rescue, then a ferry hits the rocks or a tug sinks...statistically you could probably get away without any fire trucks in the city for a week or two as well, but is it smart? Do we really want to mess with people's lives?

 

[Padeen]

It has been said that Canada runs in practice but does not run in theory. I prefer to think of Canada as an arrogant country that strives to be banal.

That's a couple of phrases well turned, indeed!

 

[sunchaser]

Having boated the coastal BC waters for 5 decades the improvements in weather forecasting and notifications are striking. Of course one has to avail themselves of the information available to be aware.

Unfortunately accidents do happen. Mother Nature, decision making, equipment failures, schedule adherence and human failings constantly conspire. Every day I'm on the water it seems there is an incident or two within earshot requiring CG assistance.

Then one's political leanings add more fodder, which is the case on this thread.

 

[whirrr]

A article from treesheetsnw.com :

http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2016/11/the-grounding-of-the-nathan-e-stewart/

 

[captwill]

https://www.workboat.com/news/coast...tm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter


For those continuing to watch this saga play out.

 

[twistedtree]

I was talking with another Kirby ATB captain the other day. The working assumption is that the office on watch fell asleep, which is consistent with the track line and missed turn.

It seems that one measure they could take to reduce risk would be to always have 2 officers on watch. Current they only run with one on watch, so if he/she falls asleep, all bets are off.

 

[dhays]

https://www.workboat.com/news/coast...tm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter


For those continuing to watch this saga play out.

That is an impressive crane. I am always a bit in awe of big equipment like that, both in its size and operation, but in the simple audacity of the folks who endeavored to design and build something so large.

 

[cappy208]

I was talking with another Kirby ATB captain the other day. The working assumption is that the office on watch fell asleep, which is consistent with the track line and missed turn.

It seems that one measure they could take to reduce risk would be to always have 2 officers on watch. Current they only run with one on watch, so if he/she falls asleep, all bets are off.

Incorrect. Not needed to have two officers on watch, but one officer and one lookout. A Two man bridge team.

Tugs have enjoyed a 'special' legal interpretation in that the watch stander can 'act as' their own lookout as well as doing the navigation. Ships are specifically required to have the officer of the watch, a lookout, and a helmsman. Hopefully this will cause the 'more ethically responsible' tug companies to stop fighting this little loophole. Never mind professionally responsible.

 

[twistedtree]

Incorrect. Not needed to have two officers on watch, but one officer and one lookout. A Two man bridge team.

Tugs have enjoyed a 'special' legal interpretation in that the watch stander can 'act as' their own lookout as well as doing the navigation. Ships are specifically required to have the officer of the watch, a lookout, and a helmsman. Hopefully this will cause the 'more ethically responsible' tug companies to stop fighting this little loophole. Never mind professionally responsible.

I wasn't saying that two people are required. I was saying that IF it were required, it would reduce risk of such events.

 

[twistedtree]

BTW, your earlier comment that licensing is based on the tug size, not the combined tug+barge was a real eye opener. I asked the Kirby guy about that and he of course agreed. But he also said that as a company policy Kirby requires a minimum 1600 ton license. I expect their insurance has some influence over that too.

 

[captwill]

Incorrect. Not needed to have two officers on watch, but one officer and one lookout. A Two man bridge team.

Tugs have enjoyed a 'special' legal interpretation in that the watch stander can 'act as' their own lookout as well as doing the navigation. Ships are specifically required to have the officer of the watch, a lookout, and a helmsman. Hopefully this will cause the 'more ethically responsible' tug companies to stop fighting this little loophole. Never mind professionally responsible.


Cappy208


There is some truth in what you say, but "ships" are not required to have a lookout, helmsman and watch officer at all times. The fact is most ships today only have a watch officer on the bridge at sea during daylight hours and unrestrictive visibility. Modern ships' bridges have motion detectors or better yet non-motion detectors. When there is no motion for a period of time (relatively short) an alarm sounds on the bridge. If it isn't silence within a certain time parameter the alarm cascades down to the captains office and if still not answered it cascades to all of the deck officers' rooms.


I am not sure of the requirement on ATB's, but I do know that several of the ATB's in service are equipped with a similar alarm system(s).


All that said, in pilotage waters, heavy traffic areas, ships will have at least a helmsman and watch officer on the bridge.


Bill

 

[78puget-trawler]

When last I worked on tugs transiting the Inside Passage as a Mate, one might go the whole 6 hour watch by oneself in those same waters. This was some time ago now as the last time I worked on tugs was around 1993 or so. I know the company I worked for has gone to a larger crew and in some cases gone to 4 and 8 instead of 6 and 6, mostly on longer trips though.

 

[captwill]

The following is what SOLAS requirements are:
BNWAS Regulations

IMO - Solas Chapter V Regulation 19

The requirements making it mandatory to have a bridge navigational watch alarm system (BNWAS) fitted to all passenger and cargo vessels can be found in the amendments made to SOLAS Chapter V Regulation 19 that were adopted by the IMO on 5th June 2009 in Resolution MSC.282(86).
The changes see the following subparagraph is added to paragraph 2.2 of the regulations:
.3 a bridge navigational watch alarm system (BNWAS), as follows:
.1 cargo ships of 150 gross tonnage and upwards and passenger ships irrespective of size constructed on or after 1 July 2011;
.2 passenger ships irrespective of size constructed before 1 July 2011, not later than the first survey* after 1 July 2012;
.3 cargo ships of 3,000 gross tonnage and upwards constructed before 1 July 2011, not later than the first survey* after 1 July 2012;
.4 cargo ships of 500 gross tonnage and upwards but less than 3,000 gross tonnage constructed before 1 July 2011, not later than the first survey* after 1 July 2013; and
.5 cargo ships of 150 gross tonnage and upwards but less than 500 gross tonnage constructed before 1 July 2011, not later than the first survey* after 1 July 2014.
The bridge navigational watch alarm system shall be in operation whenever the ship is underway at sea;
.4 a bridge navigational watch alarm system (BNWAS) installed prior to 1 July 2011 may subsequently be exempted from full compliance with the standards adopted by the Organization, at the discretion of the Administration."

 

[QB]

Raised now.

 

[cappy208]

The following is what SOLAS[/I]

Except the NES is (was) most definitely not Solas class. So those requirements are not required. Suggested? Recommended? But not required.

You hit on a key point. 'In Pilot Waters'... many rules are wiggled around on towing vessels. On ships in pilot waters more Than one person is required to be in wheelhouse. At sea: in periods of darkness, limited Vis and when Master requires it.

On Tugs the two person in darkness and limited vis part is roundly ignored. Because....... tugboats are UNINSPECTED. Not subject to manning, or uniform watch standing requirements. The US, Canada and Mexico are signatory to a 'grandfather clause' that allows reciprocity when traveling through their adjoining waters. Gee.... can't see who bull headed this on the neighbors can you?

 

[MurrayM]

On Tugs the two person in darkness and limited vis part is roundly ignored. Because....... tugboats are UNINSPECTED. Not subject to manning, or uniform watch standing requirements. The US, Canada and Mexico are signatory to a 'grandfather clause' that allows reciprocity when traveling through their adjoining waters. Gee.... can't see who bull headed this on the neighbors can you?

At the risk of sending this thread off to the deep end...perhaps Canada should take a page out Trump's campaign and set up toll/inspection stations at every narrows on the Inside Passage

 

[cappy208]

Not allowed. The existing manning agreements already spell out the 'status quo' is A-OK to operate in these waters with 'minimally manned' towing vessels.

The issue (IMHO) is single person in wheelhouse navigating alone. This is deficient. Tugs are an anomaly in regulation. They are this way to save money. Period. Lesser manning is more important to operational costs than civic responsibility.

 

[78puget-trawler]

One of the last trips I made thru the IP was on a big tug with two barges and a crew of ......3. We made a record time trip to Ketchikan in the winter mind you with lousy weather. We got a 4th hand off another boat in AK for our full compliment, LOL!

 

[cappy208]

There is a tradition.... No. A pride thing. Vessel operators (as seen/mirrored in other posts, comments, statements here on TF) don't like to have their MO, habits, beliefs and traditions called into question. Telling a guy who has operated a tug with NO one else in the wheelhouse for years (even if the second person would have a valid function and purpose) is tough. This is not required by precedence. At least on tugs.

This is the same lightning topic as: Single handing and being underway with No lookout, Almost running over a sailboat and blaming the sailboat, Demanding 'right of way' over a ship in a channel on your 36' trawler. (all seen, read about here on TF in previous posts) Just because you've got away with it before doesn't make it right.

And on this topic, multiple generations of tugboat operators working alone in the wheelhouse (fostering this among future trainees) is neither a viable solution or a prudent decision.