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Old 04-24-2014, 12:33 PM   #21
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Barpilot,

Since you've been a sailboater you know that most all sailboats have their transom up above the water. That will identify a FD hull.

The QBBL (quarter beam buttock line) can identify the FD boats that have a bit of submerged transom. Two or three inches. The QBBL is a line that is in-between the keel line aft and the chine. If that line is anywhere near flat or horizontal like a lot of the DeFevers it's a SD hull. SD hulls like the DeFevers that are quite close to a FD hull are even more rare than the FD type. Most trawlers are from about in the middle between FD and SD to closer to planing like the IG. Note I said closER. I believe the CHB is a little closer to FD as their keel line is steeper than most so the quarter beam line (in the middle(quarter beam)) between the keel line and the chine line will hence be a bit steeper. Many or possibly most trawlers have a fairly straight chine line aft but the keel line is considerably steeper. The difference between the two is the QBBL.

The Krogens and the Willard 40 should be in your ballpark and most everybody here probably would highly recommend them. Check the Willard web site as I believe there is a pristine W40 available.

The drag of the SD hull will fall generally between 1.3 to 1.7 depending mostly on the QBBL and the amount of submerged transom. That is just an educated opinion or guess and some would/will argue about it. I think a FP hull would fall in the range of 1.5 to 2 or 3 times the drag of a FD hull. The wide range depends heavily on such factors as displacement, beam, deadrise, wetted surface and weight distribution. Some high speed deep V hulls have their weight biased so far aft (for high speed benefits) their drag could be 5 to 10 times of a FD hull but of course it's meaningless as they don't go 6 knots and only need enough power to get past the FD point.

Craig's smallish (26'?) relatively light planing hull will have less drag (per ton of disp) for it's size than most trawlers due to it's light weight. And conversely many FD hulls eat up their efficiency advantage being too heavy.

Marty,
Excellent list except for the sin of overlooking our resident Vashon Trawler. And Barpilot look on YW for the boats that don't fit neatly into the brand box. You'll be especially likely to find steel hulls and other custom boats. You'll find features in custom boats you'll never find in production boats.

eyschulman,
Clearly the best post for advice … excellent. But you may be over rating the lobster boat in that they are IMO much closer to a planing boat and probably require 2x+ the power of a FD. Don't be fooled by those soft chines. Every lobster boat I've ever seen has a mountain of water following them around.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:27 PM   #22
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Hey c'mon, Is my boat ignored because I have a sail, or because it's not available in the USA?

Ok here's a photo without a mast on it. Now is it a full displacement boat?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post

Hatteras 42 LRC can be added to the list.

FD boats can be twin screw (see the Hatteras LRC and the Krogen 58 among others)

Didn't know Hatteras LRCs were full displacement...

-Chris
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:02 PM   #24
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Didn't know Hatteras LRCs were full displacement...

-Chris
I don't think they are but not very familiar w the Hats.

AusCan,
I thought about trying to come up w a list and was glad Marty bellied up to the bar as I was sure I'd get into trouble missing someone important like AusCan. And of course there's no question about being FD.

I wonder if there's any other FD boat that got overlooked. Not all would pop up and say "hey you forgot me". Good on ya Chris.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #25
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Didn't know Hatteras LRCs were full displacement...

-Chris
Yep. Will not plane, hull speed is max.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:00 PM   #26
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Sorry to confuse but there is something called semi that is actually full-displacement. Our DeFever is called semi-displacement but it really isn't, If you look at how deep she is in the belly with the hull angle moving aft, the curve of the deadrise and the fuel burn of 1.9gph at 6.8knots for a 60K boat with no wake seems to bear that out.
Compare your chine and the (lack of) roundness of your boats bottom with that of the sailboat in the back of your photo.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Yep. Will not plane, hull speed is max.

They don't have hard chines? I thought they were simply powered appropriately for LRC'ing (so to speak)... but also thought 12v92s or some such (if so powered) would make 'em lift a bit...

Not an argument, just a question.

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Old 04-24-2014, 04:45 PM   #28
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My Campion 30 is much more of a FD than a SD. At 7kt she burns 6 L/h. At 9kt she will burn 15 or more L/h.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
They don't have hard chines? I thought they were simply powered appropriately for LRC'ing (so to speak)... but also thought 12v92s or some such (if so powered) would make 'em lift a bit...

Not an argument, just a question.

-Chris
Nope, nope and nope. The LRCs have mostly, 4 or some 6 cylinder engines, usually 53 series Detroit. Even the largest, the 65 only had 6-71s in them.

I once had my boat in the yard with a 58LRC on the hard right near by. Definitely a different form factor with much softer chines, and a roundish bottom that flattened a bit aft.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:15 PM   #30
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BTW, i got distracted. Wanted to post this picture of a "hard" chined trawler, rounded in a different way.





Note that this Bering emulates this approach, kind of:



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Old 04-24-2014, 05:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Nope, nope and nope. The LRCs have mostly, 4 or some 6 cylinder engines, usually 53 series Detroit. Even the largest, the 65 only had 6-71s in them.

I once had my boat in the yard with a 58LRC on the hard right near by. Definitely a different form factor with much softer chines, and a roundish bottom that flattened a bit aft.

Interesting info, thanks.

-Chris
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:34 PM   #32
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I guess my 24' trawler is too small to make the list! The little guy gets no respect around here!
I have added Vashion Trawler to my copy of the list.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:43 PM   #33
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Hey c'mon, Is my boat ignored because I have a sail, or because it's not available in the USA?

Ok here's a photo without a mast on it. Now is it a full displacement boat?

Give a Yank a break, I am adding your model boat to the list. Do I describe it correctly as a Cuddies 30 Pilot House Motor Sailor?
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:14 PM   #34
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Caltec,
Yes that trawler is a good example of a boat w some submerged transom that is FD. Look at the angle of the bottom aft rising up from deep in the midships sections to near the surface at the stern. I assume when loaded she has a WL somewhat close tonthe top of her red bottom paint. There is some relatively small (for the size of the boat) amount of submerged transom but it in partnership w a very steep ramping up bottom aft. Steep QBBL. And very much a FD vessel and the hard chines have nothing to do w it.

And the Bering not only has a very steep bottom aft but the topsides look like the're coming together like a double ender. Again clearly FD.

Thanks for the pics.

What makes a FD a FD is her hull shape having nothing to do w her power or speed capability. The shape will RESULT in certain speeds and certain power ..... IF the vessel is power appropriately for her hull shape. Some (many) are not and their speeds are sometimes out of character for their hull type. A Willard 30 will do 8 knots w 80hp.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:01 PM   #35
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To the original poster if you are not already getting the idea that there is a large grey zone between what is called FD and SD ,particularly in boats that travel at or under hull speed, then I point that out again. What maters most is how the boat preforms and not so much on how a marine architect would classify the hull. Forget what the adds and sales people say about the classifications they mean noting. There are now 25+K boats with pod drives being called trawlers in adds. Find a boat that travels through the water as you would like and has what else you want and the rest is of no real significance.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:31 PM   #36
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Ey,
I get your drift but the OP wanted to nail down the "TRUE" FD boats. That would exclude the grey area boats.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:57 PM   #37
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Ey,
I get your drift but the OP wanted to nail down the "TRUE" FD boats. That would exclude the grey area boats.
Exactly.....and it's your keen observance of the critical buttock line that inspired me to submit this partially blocked photo of a Florida Bay Coaster.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:01 PM   #38
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Yes Larry the water line can be clearly seen below the chine in the bow. A nice fully rockers bottom. Looks to be rather light.

VERY nice lines on the bottom on the right too.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:00 PM   #39
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Give a Yank a break, I am adding your model boat to the list. Do I describe it correctly as a Cuddies 30 Pilot House Motor Sailor?
Hey Marty

No problem - It gets called all sorts of things. Cuddles built several hundred full displacement cruisers in the 1980's, 30 ft and 35 ft, but only 2 or 3 motor sailors. I don't think any crossed oceans to the new world though.


Anther international boat - Colvic Watson (various models) built many FD boats. Here is the 34 ft model.




Here is a Legacy 32, a US built boat.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:26 AM   #40
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Hatteras 48LRC

You think you can make this plane
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