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Old 10-07-2009, 08:11 AM   #1
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Are you new to this website and thinking about buying a boat?* But which one do you choose?* When looking for the right power vessel, remember that they come in many different styles. *They are all generally the same, all having staterooms, salons, heads, etc. In choosing the one that best fits your needs I think it is important to determine what you will do with it. Will your yacht remain primarily at the dock or will you be cruising her? Is a go-fast boat the best for you or do you like to take it slower? Do you like to use 4-8 gallons of diesel an hour or can you handle 40 gallons per hour? How about the way shes built? A wooden yacht has her charm but requires more bottom maintenance and insurance may be an issue. All of these must be deliberated.
If you like taking it slow in a boat, a trawler is your best choice. You are in the company of many of that love our trawlers.* Taking it slow and easy stopping to smell the salty air and watch the osprey soar overhead. So why pick a trawler? The modern trawler is homelike, spacious, stable and seaworthy coupled with dependability and economy of operation.
A trawler is not to be confused with fishing watercraft although the idea originated with the deep-sea fishing vessels. Trawlers in general are yachts with long, deep keels to prevent propeller damage in the event of grounding, yachts with top cruising speeds of 7-10 knots, and boats with large panoramic windows for good views. Trawlers have large fuel and water capacities to enable extended cruising and have crew creature comforts that will match any vessel afloat. But the greatest factor is the look of the trawler, with the classic lines that turn heads on the dock.
The advantages of owning a trawler yacht are not so obvious; here are some important features.
·Very inexpensive to operate. A trawler uses only about 3-8 gallons of fuel per hour obtaining 9-10 knots of speed.
·Trawlers have large diesel and water capacities.
·Large onboard storage capacities.
·Large rudders make docking simple.
·Most trawlers were built in the Orient with teak which is resistant to rot.
·Slow RPM diesel engines produce anywhere from 10-20,000 hours of use before any serious work is needed.
·Very high resale value due to tight market. Unlike cruisers and motor yachts, the trawler market exceeds the supply.
In choosing a trawler, one needs to choose between full displacement and semi-displacement hulls.
Displacement hulls are generally found on ocean going vessels. These hulls can carry more payloads due to their design. The hulls do not plane and power is directed to pushing the hull rather than raising it. The hulls are generally rounded which brought on a soft ride.
Semi-displacement hulls combine round bottoms forward and flat bottoms aft. As the yacht propels forward it partially raises from the water. These yacht hulls provide a bit more speed while sacrificing a softer ride.* These hulls are intended for coastal cruising and are not blue water yachts.
There are five trawler styles. Each style sports unique floor plans and layouts. Trawler styles are as follows.
·Classic or Trunk
·Sundeck
·Sedan
·Pilothouse
·Passagemakers
Trunk styles are thought to be the earliest of the trawler styles. They are provided wide side decks and access doors to the salon from either side. It sits low to the water making boarding easy. The bridge is usually about three steps up from the cabin.* It has lots of seating room for guests. The Classic has a mast with boom for a steadying sail.. The boom can also be used to splash the tender. The Classic provides an aft stateroom and head. Two steps up is a large salon for entertaining.* Forward of the salon is a galley which may be on either side. A dinette may be provided close to the galley. Forward of the galley is the guest quarters.* The Trunk cabin trawler is a salty style but does not offer shelter in the event of bad weather.
The Sundeck style made its appearance in the mid 80s. Sundecks are similar to the Classic except the aft cabin has a covered deck above it providing additional living space.* Covered access to the bridge in bad weather is also provided. Sundecks have wide bodies with decks higher than trunk styles. This allows for a very large master stateroom. A swim platform allows access to the sundeck and dingy access. Some are fitted with wet bar on the sundeck to entertain. The bridge on the sundeck is usually quite large allowing .If you like the outdoors, the Sundeck is the style boat for you!
The Sedan style of yacht is preferred to many because of the fewer stairs to deal with. Everything is on one level with the exception of the bridge, which must be accessed by a ladder. The model has no aft cabin and all of the cabins are somewhat smaller than other models of similar lengths. The salon is aft and the galley is typically up. Both staterooms are forward of the galley with a shared bath. The cockpit allows entertaining but only in favorable weather.
Many boaters, especially in northern climates, prefer the Pilothouse model. The Pilothouse model boasts a single-enclosed helm. It affords outstanding visibility. A galley, salon and cockpit are found on a single level similar to the Sedan style. The master stateroom with private head is located amidships below the pilothouse. The guest stateroom and head is located forward with the master stateroom. A fly bridge overhang protects the aft deck and side decks. A large deck extends beyond the fly bridge providing room for dingy storage etc. An advantage of this yacht is operability in inclement weather. The main disadvantage is having to run the generator to supply air conditioning during hot weather.
Passagemakers are the last type of trawler, which are designed, and intended for making the Trans-oceanic passage. Passagemakers are typically over 45 feet long.
You can see photos of each of these styles at my website.
In the next article, I'll review different sizes of trawlers, the accommodations and the different engine selections.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:17 AM   #2
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

I'm glad you finally got around to adding this to your site. I thought you just ignored my suggestion. Thanks! It should help people new to shopping for yachts a better idea of the different styles of trawlers.

-Comrade Beaty
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:13 PM   #3
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

The above is a great description of different styles.

For an opinion on who the boats actually are built , and hold together,

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

has on line summaries/surveys of a huge number of vessels.

His book is 1/10 of a boat buck , and worth a read before even walking down a dock.

Since he isn't selling anything but information based on experience , its worth a few hours making a list , of what and what NOT!

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Old 10-07-2009, 03:12 PM   #4
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

A correction to the Sedan definition. As used by Grand Banks and perhaps others, the Sedan is the same as a tri-cabin but without the aft cabin. So it still has the forward cabin which is generally accessed by three or four steps down into the forward part of the boat. So it is not a "stepless" or one-level*configuration. Also, at least in a GB, the two cabins in a Sedan are both larger than their counterparts in a Classic, aka tri-cabin. The forward cabin is considerably longer because this is now the main stateroom on the boat, and the main cabin is noticeably longer because it can be.

You also left out altogether one of the most popular configurations, and this is the Europa. While the Europa has the covered side and aft decks similar to a Pilothouse, it does not have a separate, raised pilothouse compartment. The flying bridge on the typical Europa extends all the way to the front of the main cabin, same as on a Classic or Sedan. The lower helm station is on the same level as the main cabin and is usually simply the forward part of it. Like the Pilothouse, the Europa is ideal for cold, rainy climates like the PNW because the covered aft deck is a very user-friendly space when the weather is bad, and it can be completely enclosed with fabric and plastic curtains when it's cold. So one can be "outdoors" without having to be outdoors.

-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 7th of October 2009 03:13:40 PM
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:33 PM   #5
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Marin,
You beat me to it. Your exactly right with your Europa and sedan definitions. I think one of the big differences between the sedan/Europa and the raised pilothouse is a larger flybridge, a much lower headroom engine room and larger forward cabins as the lower helm tends to sit farther back with a longer forward raised cabin on the S/E ie: see my profile pic
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:34 AM   #6
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

All Europas ARE sedans. All sedans are not necessarily Europas. What about a Mainsip 34 MK1??? Or my old Prairie? It has a covered cockpit but not covered sidedecks. Anyway, I do not think a Europa deserves it's own class. It is just a style of sedan.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:28 AM   #7
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

I used to think that a "sedan" style boat meant "no flybridge". Upon further investigation, I see where numerous boat builders refer to some of their flybridge models as "convertible/ sedans. Since I've found so many different boats being designated as "sedans", I've narrowed it down to, "on a sedan, the helm is part of the salon" except for flybridge models. I guess that Europas, express boats,* cruisers, etc, all fall into this catagory, but then the question begs, "what is a motor yacht, whose helm is part of the salon but has no cockpit, called?

Here is my "sedan."
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:04 PM   #8
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
Baker wrote:

*Anyway, I do not think a Europa deserves it's own class. It is just a style of sedan.
You'll have to take that up with manufacturers like Grand Banks and others who make clear distinctions between the two configurations.* Also just about every boat broker and dealer on the planet who seem to make the same distinctions.* No side deck and (all the way back to the transom) aft deck*overhang--- it's a Sedan.* With the overhangs--- it's a Europa.*

The brokers, dealers, and manufacturers use the two terms because they instantly convey the basic configuration of the boat. Otherwise they'd have to say, "It's a sedan but it has side deck overhangs,*an*aft deck overhang that extends*back to the transom,*flush side supports, blah, blah, blah."* Way easier to say simply "Europa" and have everyone immediately know exactly*what configuration of boat you're talking about.* By the same token,*when they say*"Sedan"*everyone instantly knows it's a*trawler-type boat that has no, or perhaps only*partial, boat deck overhangs.

The problem with the "helm is part of the salon" definition of a sedan is that other configurations of boats that aren't sedans have this same feature.* Our boat is a tri-cabin, or in GB's traditional nomenclature, a "Classic."* Has a step-down aft cabin, a flying bridge, and no boat deck overhangs.* But the helm station is simply the forward part of the salon.

American Marine, by the way, used four different terms to describe the four configurations of their Grand Banks models--- Sedan, Classic, Europa, and Motoryacht.* Each term described a configuration that was distinctly different from the other configurations.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 8th of October 2009 01:24:26 PM
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:44 PM   #9
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
Marin Wrote

"The problem with the "helm is part of the salon" definition of a sedan is that other configurations of boats that aren't sedans have this same feature. "

-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 8th of October 2009 01:24:26 PM
*
I agree with the statement, however, what I should have said was "they must also have a cockpit." Marin's boat does not have a cockpit, thus the designation Classic, Trawler, etc.

Upon further search, it would seem that a lot of brokers, builders, owners, etc. call their boats just about anything they want! I still have not heard a definition of "Sedan" that sets it clearly apart from other styles.

(End of my participation on this subject.)
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #10
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
I still have not heard a definition of "Sedan" that sets it clearly apart from other styles.

(End of my participation on this subject.)
A sedan has 4 doors, unlike a coupe that has only 2.

*

*
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:09 PM   #11
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
BaltimoreLurker wrote:"A sedan has 4 doors, unlike a coupe that has only 2."
This is the best definition I've heard (and can believe) so far!
*
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:49 PM   #12
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

You think coming up with a good definition of "sedan" is hard, ask people what defines a "trawler."
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:33 PM   #13
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

I will still disagree with you Marin although you are just defining a "Europa" and not distinguishing it from a sedan. Let me ask you this question.... How does the interior layout differ from a Europa and a Sedan. That is somewhat of a rhetorical question because they don't differ....they are the same. I will say it a gain. A Europa is a type of sedan. AND THE ABSOLUTE ONLY MANUFACTURER THAT USES THIS TERM IS Grand Banks. *It is a proprietary term that has gained general acceptance. Island Gypsy uses the term "Eurosedan"(for the same style of boat)....try that one on for size!!!!!

-- Edited by Baker on Thursday 8th of October 2009 09:38:51 PM
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:42 PM   #14
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
Baker wrote:

AND THE ABSOLUTE ONLY MANUFACTURER THAT USES THIS TERM IS Grand Banks.*
Um,nope.* CHB used the term for one, and so have other of the Taiwan manufacturers over the years. Actually, GB didn't originate the term.* According to the then-GB distributor for the northwest back in 1998 a--- surprise, surprise--- European yacht manufacturer did although I have forgotten their name (I seem to recall it was an Italian company).

While the basic interior layouts are the same, it's the exterior configuration that is the difference.* Using your logic, all Boeing single-aisle airplanes are 707s and all Boeing twin aisle airplanes (except the 747) are 767s.* The 737 and 757 are simply types of 707s and the 777 and 787 are simply types of 767s.* After all, all the single aisle airplanes have the same basic interior configuration and all the twin-aisle airplanes have the same basic interior configuration (we will ignore the step-down flight deck of the 757 for the moment).* According to you, exterior configuration makes no difference.

Don't tell me that one is bigger than the other or one has different engines than another because these are the same variables you get in boats.

A Labrador Retriever and a Poodle are both dogs, and they both have the same interior configuration.* But a Labrador is not just a type of Poodle, nor is a Poodle just a type of Labrador.* Exterior configuration counts.

And the definition can be reversed.* One can say a Europa is just a Sedan with boat deck overhangs. One can also say that a Sedan is actually just a Europa without the boat deck overhangs.



*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 8th of October 2009 10:47:50 PM
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:00 PM   #15
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Provide a link to a manufacturer that uses this term.....I am talking officially and not generally. I am not talking yachtworld as the term is a generalization. Brokers do use the term to describe a sedan with a cockpit and side deck overhangs. Europa is a style of sedan....THE END! It does not deserve a classification all of it's own. It is a sedan.....simple as that.

BTW, form follows function on the Boeings. *They all look the same from the outside. *In fact, I have a hard time telling many of them apart because their proportions are so similar. *Boeing cannot "style" an airplane to look differently from another. *A naval architect can and often does!


-- Edited by Baker on Thursday 8th of October 2009 11:07:06 PM
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:19 PM   #16
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

There are older models of CHB that include in their actual model name 'CHB Europa." The current CHB model is not given any configuration name according to the CHB website (which is a different organization than the original CHB).

Europas and Sedans are two different configurations of boat.... THE END! Seems a total no-brainer to me, and apparently to the bulk of the boating world as well, otherwise we wouldn't have the two terms.

By the way, if your definition of europa includes a drop-down cockpit, this is not a requirement. There are plenty of them around with aft decks at the same level as the salon deck. By the same token, a one-level main deck is not part of the definition of a tri-cabin, or "classic." There are a number of them that have a step down aft deck.

But the bottom line is that boat definitions are pretty much bogus when it comes to the typical recreational boat. For example, judging by your avatar photo, I would never consider your boat to be a "trawler." I'm not sure what I'd call it if I was trying to describe it to someone---- "express cruiser" probably--- and perhaps that's what it is.

Some configurations are obvious because they are virtually identical to the boats that originated the name. Carey's "lobsterboat" truly is a lobsterboat. The hull was made from the same mold that produced commercial lobsterboat hulls and only difference between Carey's boat and the working lobsterboats I've seen on PEI and in Maine is the size of the cabin and the lack of working gear on Carey's boat.

But a trawler----? From a recreational boat point of view, there is no such thing. None of the recreational boats carrying this name bear any resemblance whatsoever to a true trawler. I've seen a lot of working trawlers and believe me, none of them look remotely like the boats the people on this forum own, including me. The reality is that "trawler," "sedan," "motoryacht," "europa," are nothing more than marketing names. "Sundeck" actually means something because it describes a physical feature of the boat. So does "pilothouse."
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:35 PM   #17
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
Baker wrote:
BTW, form follows function on the Boeings. *They all look the same from the outside.

They don't look anything the same if you deal with all of them all of the time.* The guys I work with (and most of the time myself as well) can even tell a 737 classic from a 737 NG from the front as soon as they can make them out on final approach, and I mean the 737 NGs without winglets.* If you know what to look for and if you're working around and with all our models every day, they do begin to appear as different as the Labrador and the Poodle.* Or the europa and the sedan.

But a lot of us here believe that they truly are all just 707s.* Physically, the only difference other than size has been the tweaks.

I took an off-hours airplane design class (a familiarization course, not a course on how to actually design things) when I first hired in that was taught by one of the company's senior aerodyamicists.* It was a ten or fifteen week course, and the title of one of his lessons was "There's Nothing New Under the Sun."* His premise, which he proved with photos, drawings, etc. is that there is no configuration in today's airplane world that was not done, tried, or thought of by the Germans in WWII.* From swept wings to blended wings, forward-swept wings, swing-wings, podded engines, tail-mounted engines, you-name-it, they thought of it all in one way or the other, albeit often very crudely.* Needless to say, it was an interesting lecture.

*
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:20 AM   #18
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Lemme give you another example. We have two Chevrolet Corvettes. One is a hardtop and one is a convertible. They are both Corvettes. But one is a convertible. The convertible is a corvette!!!! The hardtop is a Corvette but it is not a convertible. SO these are just two different styles of Corvettes....but Corvettes nonetheless.

I have no idea what a "drop down cockpit" is.

I likely see more Boeings in a day than any Boeing employee does since that is all we fly and I see hundreds during one bank/push. We fly every fan version of the 737 except the -600. I can tell the NGs from the classics quite easily. My biggest point was your analogy is not a good one. You are at the mercy of physics when designing a jet. You cannot "style" it. With a boat, you can. A europa is just a differently styled sedan. SAME EXACT LAYOUT with a little different exterior styling.

I would not consider my boat a trawler either(although it says it in big letters on the side). Express cruiser is probably the general term for it although you could call it a picnic boat or lobster boat or downeast cruiser. Do you know what they call the hardtop version of my boat????? A SEDAN!!!!!!! Try that one on for size!!!

BTW, a sportfish is also a sedan.

I got one for ya!!! Have you ever seen the DeFever 48....I think they call it a tri-cabin??? It is a trunk cabin boat with Europa styled overhangs aft and on the sides. I never understood the design other than pure aesthetics. So this might be an angle for our arguement since it is definitely NOT a sedan and sure as hell looks like a Europa...although a bastardized one(no offense to any owners of this model).
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:25 AM   #19
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

So waht the heck is this thing???? *I will admit, it certainly is not a sedan. *If you wanna argue that this is a "non-sedan" europa then I will humbly agree. *But it is the only one of its kind that I know of....the rest are sedans

-- Edited by Baker on Friday 9th of October 2009 07:28:57 AM
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:44 AM   #20
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978.../United-States

Since that is up in your area, you might want to scamper over there and school these fine folks on the differences of a sedan and europa!!!! *They have the nerve to call it a Europa Sedan!!!!!! *Actually there were many on that website calling it the same...those people out there in the "boating world". *I was going to reply to that term stating that my boating world and yours are likely quite different. *But it seems every broker on yachtworld that uses the term "europa sedan" is from the PNW!!!


Marin, I do hope you are taking this as just spirited discussion. *I mean no disrespect and am just having fun although I am serious in my beliefs.


-- Edited by Baker on Friday 9th of October 2009 07:57:41 AM
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