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Old 10-09-2009, 07:59 AM   #21
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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SeaHorse II wrote:

*
BaltimoreLurker wrote:"A sedan has 4 doors, unlike a coupe that has only 2."
This is the best definition I've heard (and can believe) so far!
*

*



Sorry fellas. *Mercedes has gone and screwed that one up as well. *They call their CLS model a "4 door coupe"!!!!!!! *Can ya friggin' believe that????!!!!!
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:02 AM   #22
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Since the* "trawler" label* is now stuck on anything that floats , gone is the ability to go in blue water , and SPEED is in.

So whybother with the "trawler " bit , just to be PC, and pretend to have an efficient boat?

Here are a couple of fine cruisers that could run the loop, or inside to Ak, with out the pretense of "trawler".

No, there not 3 story high boxes with oxygen tents , built* for inshore cruising , not playing house.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=18984&url=

A classic

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1808&url=


More efficiency , 12K cruise with 65 hp engine

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Old 10-09-2009, 09:41 AM   #23
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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Marin wrote:" The reality is that "trawler," "sedan," "motoryacht," "europa," are nothing more than marketing names. "Sundeck" actually means something because it describes a physical feature of the boat. So does "pilothouse."
This is where I eventually landed on the subject........

*
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:23 AM   #24
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

The important thing to remember here is my boat is a Europa style sedan and all of your boats suck!
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:51 AM   #25
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Baker That thing you refer to is a DeFever 48. I have hull number 168 of the same. No way can it be confused with a cheap ass Grand (break the)*Banks Europa! However it can be confused with a very nice Grand (break the) Banks 47/49 made during the 70s, 80s and 90s before Grand banks started calling them something else - Heritage? Of course the DF 48 is much nicer than the GB47/49 because it is slower, has a boat deck, covered walkways and cockpit (great in the PNW) and much lower mortgage payments.

I'm in the mining business. Just bought 16 new Cat 797Fs at 400 ton capacity. They look much the same as a Cat 777 at 100 ton capacity from 100 yards away as do the 7 other models of Cat trucks. Like trucks, all the Boeing planes look the same to me if they have 2 engines under the wings. However my SIL who is with SW Air can tell every one of the 737s in their fleet apart - he's a maintenance guy and counts the rivets around the doors and cargo hatches to discern.

-- Edited by sunchaser on Friday 9th of October 2009 10:55:36 AM
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:13 AM   #26
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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Baker wrote:

*We have two Chevrolet Corvettes. One is a hardtop and one is a convertible. They are both Corvettes.

I have no idea what a "drop down cockpit" is.


Well, see the way I interpret your Corvette example*as applied to boats is that one is a sedan and one is a europa.* But*they are both Grand Banks.*

By the way, this not the same thing as*saying a*convertible and hardtop*Corvette are both GMs.* Grand Banks was a particular line*of boats produced by American Marine (like the Corvette is a line of cars produced by GM.* American Marine made other lines of boats as well (Alaskan, Laguna, etc.).* Since Grand Banks was the most popular line, the company itself began to be called "Grand Banks" even though that wasn't its name.* But they finally caved to popular use and changed the company name several years ago*to Grand Banks even though they still make several lines of boats (GB, Eastbay, Aleutian).

So....* your convertible is a Corvette.* Your hardtop is a Corvette.* Both cars have more or less the same interior configuration.* My friend's europa is a GB.* Another fellow in the marina's sedan is a GB.* But the configuration of your convertible and your hardtop are different.* Nobody would say that your hardtop is*the same as your convertible.* By the same token, my friend's europa is not the same as this other fellow's sedan.

"Drop down" cockpit is the wrong term.* I should have more accurately said "step down" cockpit.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:16 AM   #27
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

The Eagle is a Pilot House*Trawler, built*on a*commercial trawler hull and blue water capable.*There is no mistaking it fore something else, but they may not know what it is?***I am not sure what the rest of your*boats*are?**(0;
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:20 AM   #28
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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So waht the heck is this thing????
It is a very bizzare looking boat whose designer obviously had only one tool to work with--- a straight edge.* I'm not sure that the attachment of any marketing name--- sedan, europa, tri-cabin, box---would answer your question accurately.*

Perhaps the photo was taken from an unflattering angle, but from your earlier post, my guess is that the brokers up here would call it a Europa Tri-Cabin Sedan.

-- Edited by Marin on Friday 9th of October 2009 11:24:29 AM
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:19 PM   #29
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Marin - the DF 48 does not have one straight line on it. This is a negative in that the water that collects on the boat deck drips down the stairwell rather than flowing aft as it should (unless my lazz fuel tanks are full and water tanks at 1/2 or less). This week I'm having an auxiliary drain installed to cure that problem.* Even though I live in Salt Lake City. I cannot get water to flow uphill.

The DF 48 was designed before Europe was discovered by Jane Auel, so Art DeFever could not grab the name Europa first. Tony Flemming did that before he bailed out of GB. And here is a scary thought, Grand Alaskan is made in the same factorys as some DFs.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:59 PM   #30
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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sunchaser wrote:

Marin - the DF 48 does not have one straight line on it.

Whoever took the photo John posted didn't do the design any favors then.* In fairness, you can find an angle from which just about any boat will look awkward with the possible exception of a Gar Wood, Hacker, or Chris Craft torpedo stern*runabout.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:07 PM   #31
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

I didn't try to find an unflattering pic....I found that and posted it at random. And it is NOT a sedan.

You keep using the term "configuration". A sedan and europa are configured generally the same. It is their exterior styling that is different.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:28 PM   #32
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Quote:
Baker wrote:
You keep using the term "configuration". A sedan and europa are configured generally the same. It is their exterior styling that is different.
When I say configuration, I mean configuration.* The external configuration of a europa is different than the external configuration of a sedan.* The large overhanging boat deck, streamlined side supports, and often-enclosed aft deck are not just "styling" differences.* They're configuration differences.* The external configuration of a europa allows a dinghy/tender and launching system*to be carried on the boat deck.* The sedan cannot do this, or at least I've never seen one that does.* That is more than a simple "styling" difference, at least in my book.* It is a capabilities and configuration difference.


I realize*you selected the photo of the Europa Tri-Cabin Sedan at random, but if the boat is not as straight-lined as*it appears, the photographer did the boat a dis-service.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 9th of October 2009 06:29:46 PM
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:10 PM   #33
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Okay Marin, you win!!! The main difference between a sedan and a Europa is that if it is raining, you will likely get wet on a sedan and might not on a europa. That is the ONLY difference. Niver mind the fact that if you are inside the boat out of the rain you have no clue what kind of boat our are on.......
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Old 10-10-2009, 01:43 AM   #34
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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Niver mind the fact that if you are inside the boat out of the rain you have no clue what kind of boat our are on.......
Sure you do.* If the water is running down the windows and leaking in all around the window sill and seeping in under the aft door, you're in a sedan.* If the windows are nice and clear with no leaks around the sill and the floor is dry inside the aft door, you're in a europa.

*
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:58 AM   #35
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

I think we've pretty much covered this subject....what say we call it a Mexican Standoff?
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:00 AM   #36
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

NOOOOOOOOO..........I believe a fifth page is in order.......the horse is not dead, and once it is it still needs to be beaten!

MP
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:18 AM   #37
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Okay ....just to appease y'all................


Marin, let's take a 737-800 with winglets and one without winglets. Are they totally different aircraft because one is "configured" differently?
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:47 AM   #38
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Trawlers 101 - Part 1

Bad example because winglets are just add-ons. You can stick them on any 737-800. Kind of like teak trim. The cabin/boat deck molds for a europa are completely different than the molds for a sedan. Totally different boats in terms of that part of the manufacturing process and tooling.

-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 10th of October 2009 11:48:48 AM
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:04 AM   #39
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

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Marin wrote:

Bad example because winglets are just add-ons. You can stick them on any 737-800. Kind of like teak trim. The cabin/boat deck molds for a europa are completely different than the molds for a sedan. Totally different boats in terms of that part of the manufacturing process and tooling.

-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 10th of October 2009 11:48:48 AM
Yep, you are exactly right. *WInglets are just add ons . *you chop the winglets off and you have the same airplane. *You chop the overhangs off....and you have the same boat. *Simple as that. *Thanks for clearing that up!!!

*
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:05 AM   #40
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RE: Trawlers 101 - Part 1

oy-vay!
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