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Old 11-17-2017, 01:21 AM   #1
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Trawler sinks, all survive

http://www.passagemaker.com/trawler-...family-rescued

It will be interesting to find out the cause of the sinking.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:20 AM   #2
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One can only presume some rather large diameter hose came of a thru-hull, or the dripless shaft seal gave way on that side. Something that I always comfort myself as virtually impossible to happen with my stuffing box, and a reason to not fret about the fact I don't have a dry bilge, and never will.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:30 AM   #3
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Sad, but glad they're all okay. Great story of preparedness, crew training, keeping cool heads in scary circumstances, sharing responsibilities, and - once again - how great our Coast Guard is.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
One can only presume some rather large diameter hose came of a thru-hull, or the dripless shaft seal gave way on that side. Something that I always comfort myself as virtually impossible to happen with my stuffing box, and a reason to not fret about the fact I don't have a dry bilge, and never will.
So many possibilities and facts yet to be known. One thing we know for sure, their EPIRB performed properly.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:59 AM   #5
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I remember this boat. It was at the National liquidators maybe 4 or 5 years back. Twin cats, stabilized, fiberglass. Neat boat I think at around $100k. I also think it may have been for sale not too long after the NL on yachtworld. I could be wrong about the latter. That was a few computers back or I'd have pics of the girl. The strange fact was the headroom in the salon was 6'1" or something.. Matter of fact I think there was a video I saw so it may still be there from the national liquidators. Just looked and couldn't find it. The video she was on the stands next to their warehouse in Fl. I thought it was the guy "1 world yachts", but checked his videos and didn't see it.


Edit: I think it may have been longer than 4 or 5 years. Time is terrible that way!
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:22 AM   #6
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Sounds like a stabilizer fin might have busted or mounting pad busted at hull. Just a guess of course...
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:53 AM   #7
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Glad they are safe and that their abandon ship and rescue went well. It's what we all hope for if found in such a situation.

But in the article, why is it significant to call out that the boat was built in China, yet not even mention the builder? It's presented in such a way to imply it was significant in the sinking. Strikes me as editorializing by PassageMaker, and an attempt to start a fire where none exists.

Speaking of which, can anyone find anything to say who the builder is? It's not a documented boat, or at least isn't in the documentation data base.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:32 AM   #8
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Most people probably have no idea where boats are built..... and true it isnt necessarily relavent, it just added words to the article.

Sometimes journalists are so amazed at things, they cant wait to pass them along like they discovered something new.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:07 AM   #9
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Sounds like a stabilizer fin might have busted or mounting pad busted at hull. Just a guess of course...
agree. This was a large deficit in the hull. The dripless seal shaft threat doesn't seem likely to me. First, you have a 2.5" hole, but its filled with a 2" shaft, so yes, a moderate leak, but not one that sinks a 72' in 5 minutes. I've seen boats sink due to a drip, drip at dockside with conventional packing.

Short be a shortish air search to find the hull. 30' of water and a large boat there.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #10
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I have seen several dripless seals where the internal plastic bushing melted and got stuck to the shaft. It then begins to spin with the shaft and rips the rather thin hose going to the shaft log. Once that rips, you have a big leak. A 2" shaft in a 3" tube is a big enough leak to do this.

Dripless seals scare the cr@p out of me. Bronze gland with packing for me.

If boat is in 30' of water, we might learn the cause.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:04 PM   #11
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Yeah, I've been one on the unlucky ones with PSS. My fault, but still a failure at sea. I didn't dimple/drill one of the shafts to allow the coupler set screws to work into. My bad.... ulitimately, the shaft moved forward about 1" and the PSS seal "disengaged" causing a rush of water. And, of course, the other possible failure mode is a loss of cooling water for planing boats, causing seal melting, etc. Bad, bad.

What follows is the Buck-Al fitting sizes in the 2 to 3" range for the box. That 2nd number is the packing size, so I'm using that to describe the worse case ring of ocean, that is incoming. There is quite a range in there from 5/16" to 1/2" So, if you did a conversion to PSS type seals, then you might want to do the further calculation of max incoming sea, when the worst happens. I would maintain that a 3/8" circle lets in much less water than a 1/2" thick circle of 3 1/2" circumference. Yes, the volume depends on depth, which for a 72 might be 5' deep, not sure. Yep, a bunch of water is coming in. Would I put in another PSS system? Not sure, but in my last vessel, I was getting real tired of the salt misting around a lot of steel and iron hardware, which the PSS does solve. For sure, I'd design the pumping system to accomodate a huge leak there! And the mention of a melted boot is rather an interesting puzzle to solve at sea!

00sL200fg 2'' 3/8'' 3'' 4-3/4'' 2-3/8'' 18.00
00sL225fg 2-1/4'' 7/16'' 3-1/2'' 5-1/2'' 2-1/2'' 21.00
00sL250fg 2-1/2'' 5/16'' 3-1/2'' 5-1/2'' 2-1/2'' 21.00
00sL275fg 2-3/4'' 1/2'' 4'' 5-3/4'' 2-9/16'' 45.00
00sL300fg 3'' 3/8'' 4''
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:25 PM   #12
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Dripless seals scare the cr@p out of me. Bronze gland with packing for me.

Oh jeebus... and here I thought I upgraded when we swapped ours to PSS two years ago!
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
I have seen several dripless seals where the internal plastic bushing melted and got stuck to the shaft. It then begins to spin with the shaft and rips the rather thin hose going to the shaft log. Once that rips, you have a big leak. A 2" shaft in a 3" tube is a big enough leak to do this.

Dripless seals scare the cr@p out of me. Bronze gland with packing for me.

If boat is in 30' of water, we might learn the cause.
My guess is the cause will be found out...but will we ever see it....hmmmmm.

Yep, I can live with old school stuffng boxes enclosed to prevent water slinging and drained to a sump.....same results as a dripless, no extra expense except for a cheapo box build and much less threat than a dripless bellows failure.....at least with the PSS as I cant say I have seen all dripless packings.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:53 PM   #14
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Dave,

So what's a PSS?

(hate acronyms)



Quote:
Originally Posted by diver dave View Post
Yeah, I've been one on the unlucky ones with PSS. My fault, but still a failure at sea. I didn't dimple/drill one of the shafts to allow the coupler set screws to work into. My bad.... ulitimately, the shaft moved forward about 1" and the PSS seal "disengaged" causing a rush of water. And, of course, the other possible failure mode is a loss of cooling water for planing boats, causing seal melting, etc. Bad, bad.

What follows is the Buck-Al fitting sizes in the 2 to 3" range for the box. That 2nd number is the packing size, so I'm using that to describe the worse case ring of ocean, that is incoming. There is quite a range in there from 5/16" to 1/2" So, if you did a conversion to PSS type seals, then you might want to do the further calculation of max incoming sea, when the worst happens. I would maintain that a 3/8" circle lets in much less water than a 1/2" thick circle of 3 1/2" circumference. Yes, the volume depends on depth, which for a 72 might be 5' deep, not sure. Yep, a bunch of water is coming in. Would I put in another PSS system? Not sure, but in my last vessel, I was getting real tired of the salt misting around a lot of steel and iron hardware, which the PSS does solve. For sure, I'd design the pumping system to accomodate a huge leak there! And the mention of a melted boot is rather an interesting puzzle to solve at sea!

00sL200fg 2'' 3/8'' 3'' 4-3/4'' 2-3/8'' 18.00
00sL225fg 2-1/4'' 7/16'' 3-1/2'' 5-1/2'' 2-1/2'' 21.00
00sL250fg 2-1/2'' 5/16'' 3-1/2'' 5-1/2'' 2-1/2'' 21.00
00sL275fg 2-3/4'' 1/2'' 4'' 5-3/4'' 2-9/16'' 45.00
00sL300fg 3'' 3/8'' 4''
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:04 PM   #15
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Google PSS shaft seal...all over the place...
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:19 PM   #16
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Comments on Facebook said something about looking to the Stern that it appeared the swim platform had wrecked and that the son could see into the lazarette- there was other speculation that there were wrecks in the area and with rough seas that they may have bounced down on one or something- I only know that from reading all the comments on the original Facebook posting
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:27 PM   #17
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Packless Sealing System. One of those things where when it works , great, but a failure makes for some interesting thoughts when at sea. I recall loosening the tranny coupler and "hammering" the prop/shaft to change the position on the coupler. good thing the water was warm, because I was in it grabbing the prop and tossing it back and forth.
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:56 PM   #18
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5 miles north of Key West is when it starts to get really shallow.....

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11441.shtml
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:09 PM   #19
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I have no experience with dripless systems. On another forum I belong to, many boat builders favor the Tides dripless over the PSS. As Stated, I have no experience with any of these...
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:14 PM   #20
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I do remember there was some kind of hydraulic swim platform on this when it was for sale.

I also think when they say a boat built in "china" that's how I remember it being sold. Not sure what yard or if it was a yard. Boat was more of a dinner boat style, but in trawler form. I think the salon head room reflects the difference in average height vs americans.

Doesn't sound like the conditions were crazy for what it was, but I am curious.
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