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Old 01-07-2013, 11:36 AM   #21
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Some friends have a 47' Vagabond...arguably one of the most comfortable liveaboard sailboats in existance. Not the greatest sailing vessel, but it has a great diesel, and is huge inside. They have longed for a trawler for years....more so as they grow older.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:15 PM   #22
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Sailing - hundreds and hundreds of hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of sheer terror.
SO so true.

Food for though--whenever it comes time to decide whose boat to have a meal on, our sailboater friends always want to eat on our boat. Doesn't matter who's cooking. They prefer the space and view the trawler offers. And these are people with large sailboats, 40 and 42 feet most recently (last week!).

There is SOOO much more inside space on a trawler than a sailboat of the same LOA.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:26 PM   #23
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Some friends have a 47' Vagabond...arguably one of the most comfortable liveaboard sailboats in existance. Not the greatest sailing vessel,

Back in the day , I worked for the importer.

While they were no 12 meter boats , they were pro designed by a real NA (Bill Garden) and would make great world cruisers. And good looking !

I remember installing a Wood Freeman in one and just hoisting the inner stay sail.

12K of breeze , calm water the boat ran 5 - 5 1/2 K with ease.

The point is that with minimum sail area the boat could run over 100nm a day.

Hoist the main & the rest and it ran 7- 7 1/2K .

Lots more work , but 150 nm a day for a "cruiser" isn't bad.

My concept for a sailor is a large boat on the WL that will crank out the miles with almost no effort.

And no $200 -$300 a day in diesel bills

WITH THE SOUND OF SILENCE !!!.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:40 PM   #24
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A powerboat is about the destination. A sailboat is about the voyage.
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It totally depends on the individual. There is no one-size-fits-all rule. I am far more interested in the voyage than the destination. The reason I despise slow boats and prefer fast ones (even though we have a slow one) is not so that we can get to the destination sooner but because I really like running a fast boat. Getting to the destination quicker just means to me that we can get started on the run to the next destination that much sooner.

Fortunately, our other boat is fast.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:18 PM   #25
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A friend of mine owned a sail boat for 10 years.
He almost never raised the sails.
Just used the little diesel motor.

I think it was more about doing the life style.
He liked to talk about owning the boat more than actually using it to sail.

He sold it and bought a 36 ft Bayliner that he sold when he bought a cabin up by Talkeetna Alaska.

A cabin. Huh The senery never changes.

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Old 01-07-2013, 05:54 PM   #26
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Where is your friend going to go cruising? We've cruised almost all of the US salt water coast in bits and pieces, in shore and off. At least 90% of the cruising sail boats we see underway are under power. Of the dozens of sailors we know, only two couples actively sail long distances under sail on a consistent basis. My advice to your friend is to spend a lot of time on different sorts of boats, chartering. Take sailing lessons, it's fun for one thing. All of this should be done with the SO's complete involvement.

I was thinking about this just this morning as I walked up the dock; "Windhorse" the famous power boat designed and run by the Dashews was tied up at our marina again. As most trawler aficionados know, they are very experienced trans-ocean sailors and boat designers, and went to power.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:21 PM   #27
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We ran the single cylinder 10hp diesel for 80% of the miles we traveled during 3 years living aboard our sailboat - from New England to the Caribbean...but those 20% under sail are by far the most memorable.

Marin - you confuse me. You always want to be somewhere else, yet you claim to enjoy the voyage?
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:59 AM   #28
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Sails allow distance to be covered almost for free .

Putting in the ICW or similar is always done under power.

Most bridges wont allow one to sail thru , ditto for most locks.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #29
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Just transitioned from sail to power.

What we will miss:
Connection to the water (low freeboard)
Sound of water while underway
That 10-20% when sailing conditions were perfect
Low fuel cost
Stability and ride quality
Not having anything to tweak while underway

Likes:
Extended season (AC/Heat & protection)
Less sun exposure
More space
Multiple defined interior and exterior areas for semi-privacy
Less work underway
More comfort at anchor and underway
Seeing the outside while inside (no more portlights)
Less exterior decommissioning when its 90 degrees
No more sails to remove end of season
Less canvas to buy and care for
A real engine room with easy access
More storage
Shallow(er) draft
Plenty of reserve HP
Larger water & holding tanks
Not sleeping near a large lightning rod
Oh yeahI started receiving AARP mailings.


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Old 01-08-2013, 04:43 PM   #30
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Oh yeahI started receiving AARP mailings.

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You must have just turned 50 then.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #31
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DinghyDog wrote:

"Oh yeah…I started receiving AARP mailings."

Turned 25 huh? :-) Well, I suppose everyone has their own view of the AARP, but when they send mass mailings to everyone at a very early age, it kind of turns me off on them.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #32
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Mike has some great points on the comparision.

The sailors (and yes we used to sail) always bring up the fuel cost for a power boat and that wind is free. Sails, however, are not free and need to be replaced. Though you can keep sailing with your crappy worn out sails until they shred.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:49 PM   #33
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What Mike and Jennifer said... I'm getting rid of my sailboat to step out of the cave and into the cabin.

That 10 to 20% of the time is magic when the sails are full though.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #34
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Marin - you confuse me. You always want to be somewhere else, yet you claim to enjoy the voyage?
Fair question and I'm sorry I haven't made it more understandable in the past than I have.

Where I want to be is running the boat, be it in Washington, British Columbia, or on a canal in England.

It's the going and the driving that I enjoy most. The destination is irrelevant. Destinations are just places to stop and take a break until we start going again.

It's why I don't mind going to the same places in the islands all the time. The place itself I don't care much about. It's the opportunity to be on the move and driving the boat in this environment--- by which I mean the waters between here and Glacier Bay--- that I live for. The water is always changing, the weather is always changing, the wildlife is always doing new things when we're underway. Being underway and running the boat is exciting and challenging. Being stopped at some destination is not.

I much prefer to run a fast boat because I find that a lot more interesting and challenging than running a slow boat. Fortunately one of our boats is fast so if I really want a speed fix I can take that out. But even in the plodding old GB, I still enjoy being underway (or maneuvering).

I love getting back into the scenery. It's the main reason I took up float flying after getting all my ratings in landplanes in Hawaii. Being on the move in the air or on the water (or on the road) is what it's all about for me.

However I only want to drive the boat, fly the plane, whatever, in an environment that interests me. So I have zero interest in boating the ICW or the Gulf or the rivers. Maine and the Canadian Maritimes would be neat, though, as would northern Scotland.

So yes, I always want to be "somewhere else." But not because it's that "somewhere else" that I actually want to be at. I could give a hoot in hell where that "somewhere else" is or what it is as long as it's in the area I want to boat in. What I want is to drive the boat there. Once we're there life stops-- so to speak--- until we leave the next day to drive "somewhere else" again and I can be underway again.

It's why I love twin engines and will never go back to just one. More to do underway and maneuvering, more of a challenge to master. Three would be even better. Four would be even better than that.

I love running the machine, be it in the air, on the water, or on the road. It's all about the driving. The destination is irrelevent as long as there is one so we can drive something to it.

Don't get me wrong--- I enjoy most of the places we go in the boat, plane, etc. Particulary if there isn't anyone else there except us. So we don't have much use for marinas and harbors even though we do use them.

But the whole deal for me, and to a large degree my wife, is being on the move and going through this amazing environment that we like to call the northwest raincoast.


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Old 01-08-2013, 08:28 PM   #35
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A good financial analysis will show that a snailbote and a proper trawler will cost about the same to operate, all things considered.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:39 PM   #36
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The sailors (and yes we used to sail) always bring up the fuel cost for a power boat and that wind is free. Sails, however, are not free and need to be replaced. Though you can keep sailing with your crappy worn out sails until they shred.
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Wholeheartedly agree! We had to replaced our mainsail & sailtrack three years ago at a cost of over $5K.

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:54 PM   #37
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Depending on circumstances... couple items: One I may have missed as being mentioned, but greatly enjoy myself, is docking power boats in a fully covered berth. That really helps limit the sun and weather deteriorations, which greatly reduces maintenance and repair efforts... something a sail boat can't do. And, of course, the Sunny days flooding the roomy, fully equipped salon with rear master stateroom and forward guest stateroom both with full head, inc showers. Not to mention the great view from the bridge and a spacious sun-deck to sit and relax... all on a 1977 tri cabin Tollycraft 34' x 12'6" cruiser that also has good sized swim platform off transom. Afordble as all-get-out
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:35 AM   #38
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Quote:
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I went through the same discussion (with myself) about trawler/saiboat. In the end I chose the trawler. My reason was my age, 65, and my friends ages, 55 plus. I want to relax on the water, be reasonably certain we will reach our destination with a minimum of work and have a stable platform for dogs and grandkids. Came real close to a motor-sailor but didn't have the room.
That about sums us up as well - that and the fact that in the parts of Moreton Bay, (Queensland, Australia), where we sail/motor, most sail boats are motoring anyway, and you find it harder to get out of the sun or rain in yacht cockpits. I know - we had two yachts in the past.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:56 AM   #39
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"Sails, however, are not free and need to be replaced."

Sails like most fabrics wear out (like your condom dink) from sunshine.

Modern sail cloth is expected to be totally functional after 5 years of sun exposure.

100 -150 miles a day , for 5 years is over 270,000 miles or 4-5 trips around the world.

Even an Albin 25 at 1/2 gal per hour can not have such long range at such a tiny price.

Sailmaking is very labor intensive , so the Hong Kong sail maker would lower the cost even more.

See the world ,buy a sailboat , see the ditch , become a marine motorist with a 3 story roomaran.

Either way its better than being ashore!
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