trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

[Otisguy]

trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

I bought a boat in Boca Del Toro but motors need to be replaced and nearest yard is Colon.* I need help with contact names & info if any of someone willing to tow a 48' trawler down to Colon from Boca Del toro (approx 150 miles).** Colon is by the Panama Canal.* I am also needing a yard to store her on the hard until Motors arrive or*get those rebuilt*and I can get down there to oversee the work.* Any advice or connections would be helpful with towing or getting motors rebuilt or replaced. *I was thinking of shipping the motors down from Florida but with all the fishing*lodges & boats down there I am sure there is a pair of running 453's detroits that I can pick*up or have someone rebuild down there.

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

It is rare for both motors too die at one time.

If there not rusted solid , how about getting them running long enough to get to the sates?

DD are not hard to rebuild , but if there old it takes a full machine shop , not just an inframe kit tossed in.

Tho that might get you back , then rebuild properly or replace with whatever
I would see if one of the local fish boats were willing to do the tow .

Be very careful about the tow contract , use a local lawyer familiar with the quirks of maritime law, or the skipper of the fish boat will slap a SALVAGE lien on your boat.


I would go to the canal guys and see who did their DD work , and see about the rebuilds.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Boat has been sitting for years and owner died. It got towed to boca del toro marina and local mechanic said one motor had no compression and took heads off for some reason. Other motor need starting fluid to get her started but she did run (very weak he said). I am heading to boat here in a few weeks with a diesel mechanic from states to evaluate about possible one engine trip down to colon (150 miles approx) but hate to chance it and I need a back up plan (local fisherman maybe follow down and get towed if need be. We may ship boat back but my preference is to rebuild down there if cost effective and bring boat back on its own bottom for sure. Did I mention both generators are done as well. Mechanic stated Onan main is seized and westerbeke runs but no electric production so 4 new motors to install but on the bright side I will be starting with all new. Also fuel is supposedly bad and full of growth? So it more than likely is bad and needs to be pumped out and tanks cleaned as well. So a tow is looking more and more likely but once I see it personally I can evalaute a little better. I like the ideas of a local fisherman with a tow. I had heard also from someone here locally about fisherman from the states fish down there and maybe they could tow me back?

 

[sunchaser]

trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Perry* I suggest you query the members at boatdiesel.com. Many are Latin American based. Are you going to install old with rebuilt 4-53s? Replacement with anything else will be many $10s of thousands more.

I'm with FF on the towing question, be* very careful. I can just picture a cheap Panamanian tow boat ---- . Don't try to save money if you go this route.


-- Edited by sunchaser on Sunday 29th of May 2011 07:32:16 AM

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

No I want to just put back in old technology (but very reliable) and i'm sure newly rebuilt 453's that are rated at 112-120 hp will give me 10,000 hrs plus (longer than I will own boat I am sure) so if done right these motors will outlive me and should be able to be rebuilt relatively inexpensively. I actually am hoping I can find someone that has a pair of rebuilt 453's down there already and just pop those in and give them my old ones. There is a lot of fishing camps in Panam & Costa Rica and they use a lot of these 453's from what I am told so I think I have to go down there and imerse myself in the problem and get it resolved. Yes I agree about the tow that could turn out disasterous. I am even thinking of chartering a boat down in colon and going up myself & friends and towing it back myself or hiring a local boat up here in states and towing it back the entire way. I will check out boatdiesel.com to see if I can get it started and clean the fuel properly will she make it 150 miles ?

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

yes good idea, do you think running it hard under no load at dock will work or do I have to venture out for two hours of running I guess I could bring a big paddle to get back.* Problem is the remote marina has no facility to "dump the fuel" the mechanic has been giving some away to indians to burn for what ever but she holds over 1100 gallons and I have no clue how much is in there.* Is there a way to put in temp tanks holding 100 gallons (55 gal drums) with a main line to engine and return line?* This sounds mickey mouse but 99% of the time the thing that stops a diesel is bad fuel from what I have been told over and over again so?? what to do with bad fuel.* Hopefull only a 200-300 gallons of fuel and maybe I can pump out to 55 gallon drums on back deck to hold until Colon and get rid of there.* This way I can install some Inspection plates and clean those tanks to "like new"

 

[Steve]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Sounds like you will be spending an awful lot lot of money and time, what about all the other systems and the structure of the boat? Has a surveyor looked at it?
I hate to say this, but will you be throwing good money after bad?
Good luck in any case!
Steve W.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

project boat for sure, but I am picking her up priced right so even after new motors & generators I should still be well under market for her. She is a 48 Hatteras Lrc. 10 years ago she was in tip top conditioned and was surveyed in Laudedale with no major issues so I doubt it is a huge difference in hull or structure but there is two window leaks that have caused some laminate damage so rebedding a few windows and some wood work. I am sure I will put $75,000-$100,000 in her but she will be a nice blue water cruiser when I done with her and with new motors (hopefully).

 

[Tomas]

trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Contact Shelter Bay Marina, I think John Halley is now the manager. They are located on the opposite side*of the bay from Colon. John should be able to help you with both the tow and the engine repairs. There web site is:


http://www.shelterbaymarina.com/


-- Edited by Tomas on Sunday 29th of May 2011 01:56:55 PM

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

awesome thanks, I found their site earlier from a noonsite report and there were posts from S/V very happy with the marina and facilities. I emailed owner direct about this same topic but I will reach out to John as well. I checked out their rates for long term storage & do it yourself yard fee's and they seem reasonable. Are their rates reasonable for mechanic work & bottom jobs etc?

 

[Tomas]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Yes, by US standards. When I was there they used an American diesel mechanic who seemed to be good. If you need cosmetic work, ie, paint, wood, etc, I would recommend taking the boat to Cartagena, Colombia. Prices are less than 50% of US prices and the work is excellent. John Halley was the manager of Club Nautico in Cartagena, I was told he is now running Shelter Bay. If he is, say high from Tom and Cassie from Cyrano.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

I already emailed him, even though his name is not on their website. Their is another yard manager listed but who knows- I used the other guys email but replaced his name with John so hopefully it makes it to him or the other guy. Cartagena, Columbia is how far down? My wife is from Bogota and is leaving friday June 3rd with the kids there, I'm headed to Panama to sort out the boat thing. We have visited Cartagena with their familiy and stayed in a local resort and it was beautiful (except for all the beach vendors, we like Santa Martha better for that but I look forward to crusiing colombia and south america once I get this thing up and running.
So would you suggest major interior wood work as well to be done down there as well? Windows are leaking and need to be pulled and re bedded and there could be some wood damage from window leaking around a few windows and somewhere in the salon. Once I get her running I could run it down there for all the cosmetic work like that. do they do glass work in case I have soft spots up near the forpeak or other areas or walkways around the boat?

 

[Tomas]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

There are good people available in Cartagena for any kind of boat work, but materials are hard to get. In Panama, materials are readily available, but good workers are hard to find. There are a lot of expats in Panama as well as many boaters who travel between the San Blas Islands of Panama and Cartagena. There are also some who do the Cartagena - San Blas - Bocas del Toro- Cartagena loop. From Bocas, depending on the speed of your boat, you are probably an overnight from Colon, a day sail to Linton or Portabella, a day sail to San Blas and an overnight to Cartagena.

If you go from Colon to Cartagena for cosmetic work, buy your epoxies, bedding compounds, bottom paint, chemicals, etc, in Panama City. Materials were hard to get in Colombia although that may have changed. There are 3 yards in Cartagena all of which can make anything you need in fiberglass, wood or stainless. They use polyester resins, but will work in epoxy (can probably buy it cheaper in Panama). Vinylester was not available. A simple thing like Acetone was prohibitively expensive and tightly controlled, probably due to the drug industry. A short take, they still "repair" stuff in Cartagena and they are very good at it, probably because new "stuff" is hard to get.

I would recommend talking to sailboaters in Bocas and Colon to get a current reading on Cartagena. Nothing is as constant as change!

We like the Centro district of Cartagena for restaurants and entertainment, did't care much for Boca Grande (Miami South) and like Panama City. Colon is DANGEROUS!

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

"Other motor need starting fluid to get her started"

Using starting fluid in your temperature simply proves the individual is not a mechanic,DD or otherwise.

A rebuild of the engines will need someone with DD tools , not a spray can of ether.

Have you tried Gold Coast in Miami?

Sometimes he has fair running takeouts , at a negotiable price.Beware , he spray paints everything .

Otherwise look in "boats and harbors" for an operating or rebuilt pair , if you know the rotation direction.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Tom thanks for all the info about Colombia and I got an email from John this morning and he said he was still green being new and everything but he was actually the Marina Manager and*Dave is the yard Manager but he is going to try*& help with a tow for me and look for motors or hook me up with someone with motors or that can rebuild them.*

But I will check with Gold Coast for a pair or check out that site for a pair of running or rebuilt pair of 453's, thanks for that info.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

guru I agree the guy in Boca Del Toro is not a DD mechanic and he confessed to not be one obviously but could help with install if need be. Not sure why he would take the head off & start breaking down the one motor but I will check out Gold Coast and boats and harbors? is that available on line or just a paper publication? I will google it.

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

www.boats-and-harbors.com/classifieds.cfm

A quick look should find what you want , bur BEWARE.

DD can be left or right rotation , and many have the the ability to be assembled with blowers and exhaust on Either side.

Many will have SAE 1 bell housings , but its not uncommon to find other sizes.

It would be hell to purchase rebuilds and then have to hope a Spray Can "mechanic"can take them apart and properly reverse the rotation or swop other parts for L -R builds..

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

I am gonna check out boats and harbors right now. as for the spray can mechanic LOL- he won't be doing the work I assure you. I have already been in contract with Shelter Bay and they are looking into a tow down to Shelter bay/Colon and they have certified mechanics if needed also a do it your self yard. Two options are buying ready built down there or rebuild them down there by qualified DD mechanic out of Panama City or wherever- those engines are used quite a bit by the fishing resorts on Pacific side in their bertrams and other vessels from what I'm told.
My other option which could be cost effective is buying them here or rebuilding them here and shipping down and bringing some help down to install, I know enough guys up here that I can bribe with fishing/dive trips that it won't cost me much to get them to go down to do install-just airfare & lodging. It is probably just what is going to cost less and where I find motors- Main thing now is just getting the boat down to where it can be put on hard and get work done on it, Tomas has hooked me up with John from Shelter Bay so I am starting to get my feelers out before I go down n a couple of weeks.
Hell I am having a ball getting started on this project but talk to me when I'm half way through.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

IN regards to the bad or contaminated fuel does anyone have experience with this product or have any faith in it.
STARTRON Diesel Fuel cleaner. Expensive but well worth the effort before other methods. It is an yeast/enzyme that destroys algae, water and contaminants in fuel tanks in 24 hours with no or little residue. Use as directed. It is similar to the product they use to clean up oil spills, oil in bilges, etc. Not a chemical, but living organisms. Available at West Marine.

I was wondering if I get one motor running enough and bring a case or so of racor filters could enough of this stuff return the fuel to a usuable condition to make trip to Colon from Bocas

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

I would plan on using FRESH fuel with a simple setup to run from 55G tanks on deck.Hose is cheap.

After you get to your repair spot you cam drain the old fuel, to get into the tanks.

The tanks will need to be opened and scraped clean with a tool (wood spatula?).

After the tanks are cleaned - or simply replaced , you can decide if 3 passes thru a Raycore will be enough to clean the fuel.


STARTRON is for mild problems , not what you are facing,and may create problems of its own!

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Thanks this confirms what I figured and great idea with 55 gallon drums. three drums or 150 gal of fuel should suffice for a 150-200 mile run with a single 453 at 3-4 gal with a 6 knot avg speed. two 453's at cruise speed is approx 8.5-9 knots and slow cruise is 7-8 so maybe one motor should get 5-6 knots?

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Dont forget to somehow lock the prop of the dead engine.

Some trannys can be free wheeled , some must never be allowed to.

With the drag of the prop and on one engine hopefully the rudder surface will be large enough to not go in a circle.

Best insurance is to REMOVE the prop from the dead engine.

9/10 of the Sq RT of the LWL is about the best speed you might expect in mild weather.

Since you have no idea on the setup of the working engine , run up underway once to WOT (wide open throttle) note the rpm and then pull back 300RPM.

That should be fine for the trip , should you need that much power.

 

[Forkliftt]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Otis
You may want to get in touch with Diesel Specialists in Baton Rouge Louisiana. They are a customer of ours and build Detroits on a HUGE way. Marine, industrial, offshore- you name it. They are also a Northern Lights dealer. Paul is the service manager.
http://www.dslspec.com/

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

"three drums or 150 gal of fuel should suffice for a 150-200 mile run with a single 453 at 3-4 gal"

Remember all Detroits need a fuel return as well as fuel feed.

You may be sucking 35 gph , burning 5gph and returning the rest.

With most DD fuel systems this is a delight as much of the tank fuel will be filtered after the first few hours, so the fuel will be clean,

but this does nothing for a dirty tank .

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Thanks Steve and
Guru guy
I have Diesel Specialists pulled up and I have the number. I will call Paul this AM, I found another place up that way that have a pair that just came in (Johnson's Diesel Service) that I found in Boats/Harbors but I have not heard back from them yet on pricing.
Thanks for info on fuel feed line and I am familiar with DD (I am not a mechanic) but I can change impellers & water pump and general maintence items. I had a pair of 671 TIB's in my 57' yachtfish a few years ago so I know about the return line so I am thinking back deck with one dedicated tank set up for fuel line in and return line and other two tanks for back up to be pumped with manually into main fuel tank (drum rather).
I got an email last night that a 90' dive boat is going down to Shelter bay is is willing to Tow me for a fee (not sure how much) but that might be the way to go for now without a lot of hassel. It's nice to have options.

 

[Forkliftt]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Otis,
If you end up working with Diesel Specialists I would be more than willing to drop in and keep you updated with digital pics, etc..

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Well I just got off the phone with David from Johnson Diesel (I think New Orleans) and he just got a pair of 453's in from a running 34' Island hopper or similiar. The guy repowered to get more speed, he only did 14 knots so for $8k I can have both motors & gears and have two running motors? what do you think?
I asked about redoing the gears & motors and he said for motors about the same $8k maybe a little more and $500 per gear to redo seals and something else inside but they would be right.
So maybe $8k motors/$10 rebuild everything $18k total? even if it was $20K what do you think?
Grab them or negociate some to see if he will do it less or sell the units less than $8k?

 

[Tidahapah]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Mate,
If the repower engines test ok I would take them and onsell the old engines.
Use you original gearboxes after they have been checked and resealed. etc. Most likely they will fit up ok. This way you keep your running gear intact (props etc)
Clean one fuel tank completely and then polish remaining fuel into it and clean tanks proggressivly as they are MT'd.
This way you will have a couple of clean tanks with clean fuel.
Hope it all goes well.

 

[Otisguy]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Yes I am leaning more that way of just buying the running motors and sending them down and cleaning fuel tanks one by one but pumping fuel to other tanks cleaning that tank and putting in NEW fuel if I can find a easy option to dump bad fuel and not worry about cleaning it. Like it was mentioned before I will have a boatload of spares of everything which I would probably hang onto or I could have those motors that are in there now rebuilt for future use or just rebuild and sell them.
IS there a way to test a diesel for compression or should I do an oil analysis on the pair of motors after they test run them for me I could get some sample oil and send it off assuming they did not do a recent oil change on it (I don't see why they would unless they didn't want me to see or test the oil) But I believe that Diesel Specialists out of Baton Rouge is a Reputable place and been in business for over 40 years and I was talking with David, I think he said he was the Son of the man that started it 40 plus years ago. He said they are strong good running motors.
The gears on the boat down there to the "bad" motors are borg warner 2.91:1 does anyone know if I have to lock the shafts down or remove props for the tow to avoid damaging the gears?

 

[FF]

RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

if I can find a easy option to dump bad fuel and not worry about cleaning it.

Fuel is easily cleaned , SUCK it thru a good set of clean of filters .

The TANK is an entire different matter ,usually requires opening and a hand job.

borg warner 2.91:1 does anyone know if I have to lock the shafts down or remove props for the tow to avoid damaging the gears?


Look in Da Book for your trannys and see if the oil pump is on the output or input shaft.

Input , lock em,,,, output , perhaps you can trail the props , but I would call the factory NOT a dealer.