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Old 05-31-2011, 05:30 AM   #21
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Thanks this confirms what I figured and great idea with 55 gallon drums. three drums or 150 gal of fuel should suffice for a 150-200 mile run with a single 453 at 3-4 gal with a 6 knot avg speed. two 453's at cruise speed is approx 8.5-9 knots and slow cruise is 7-8 so maybe one motor should get 5-6 knots?
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:04 AM   #22
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Dont forget to somehow lock the prop of the dead engine.

Some trannys can be free wheeled , some must never be allowed to.

With the drag of the prop and on one engine hopefully the rudder surface will be large enough to not go in a circle.

Best insurance is to REMOVE the prop from the dead engine.

9/10 of the Sq RT of the LWL is about the best speed you might expect in mild weather.

Since you have no idea on the setup of the working engine , run up underway once to WOT (wide open throttle) note the rpm and then pull back 300RPM.

That should be fine for the trip , should you need that much power.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:10 PM   #23
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Otis
You may want to get in touch with Diesel Specialists in Baton Rouge Louisiana. They are a customer of ours and build Detroits on a HUGE way. Marine, industrial, offshore- you name it. They are also a Northern Lights dealer. Paul is the service manager.
http://www.dslspec.com/
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:37 AM   #24
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

"three drums or 150 gal of fuel should suffice for a 150-200 mile run with a single 453 at 3-4 gal"

Remember all Detroits need a fuel return as well as fuel feed.

You may be sucking 35 gph , burning 5gph and returning the rest.

With most DD fuel systems this is a delight as much of the tank fuel will be filtered after the first few hours, so the fuel will be clean,

but this does nothing for a dirty tank .
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:52 AM   #25
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Thanks Steve and
Guru guy
I have Diesel Specialists pulled up and I have the number. I will call Paul this AM, I found another place up that way that have a pair that just came in (Johnson's Diesel Service) that I found in Boats/Harbors but I have not heard back from them yet on pricing.
Thanks for info on fuel feed line and I am familiar with DD (I am not a mechanic) but I can change impellers & water pump and general maintence items. I had a pair of 671 TIB's in my 57' yachtfish a few years ago so I know about the return line so I am thinking back deck with one dedicated tank set up for fuel line in and return line and other two tanks for back up to be pumped with manually into main fuel tank (drum rather).
I got an email last night that a 90' dive boat is going down to Shelter bay is is willing to Tow me for a fee (not sure how much) but that might be the way to go for now without a lot of hassel. It's nice to have options.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:38 AM   #26
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Otis,
If you end up working with Diesel Specialists I would be more than willing to drop in and keep you updated with digital pics, etc..
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:12 AM   #27
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Well I just got off the phone with David from Johnson Diesel (I think New Orleans) and he just got a pair of 453's in from a running 34' Island hopper or similiar. The guy repowered to get more speed, he only did 14 knots so for $8k I can have both motors & gears and have two running motors? what do you think?
I asked about redoing the gears & motors and he said for motors about the same $8k maybe a little more and $500 per gear to redo seals and something else inside but they would be right.
So maybe $8k motors/$10 rebuild everything $18k total? even if it was $20K what do you think?
Grab them or negociate some to see if he will do it less or sell the units less than $8k?
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:17 AM   #28
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Mate,
If the repower engines test ok I would take them and onsell the old engines.
Use you original gearboxes after they have been checked and resealed. etc. Most likely they will fit up ok. This way you keep your running gear intact (props etc)
Clean one fuel tank completely and then polish remaining fuel into it and clean tanks proggressivly as they are MT'd.
This way you will have a couple of clean tanks with clean fuel.
Hope it all goes well.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:21 AM   #29
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Yes I am leaning more that way of just buying the running motors and sending them down and cleaning fuel tanks one by one but pumping fuel to other tanks cleaning that tank and putting in NEW fuel if I can find a easy option to dump bad fuel and not worry about cleaning it. Like it was mentioned before I will have a boatload of spares of everything which I would probably hang onto or I could have those motors that are in there now rebuilt for future use or just rebuild and sell them.
IS there a way to test a diesel for compression or should I do an oil analysis on the pair of motors after they test run them for me I could get some sample oil and send it off assuming they did not do a recent oil change on it (I don't see why they would unless they didn't want me to see or test the oil) But I believe that Diesel Specialists out of Baton Rouge is a Reputable place and been in business for over 40 years and I was talking with David, I think he said he was the Son of the man that started it 40 plus years ago. He said they are strong good running motors.
The gears on the boat down there to the "bad" motors are borg warner 2.91:1 does anyone know if I have to lock the shafts down or remove props for the tow to avoid damaging the gears?
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:24 AM   #30
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

if I can find a easy option to dump bad fuel and not worry about cleaning it.

Fuel is easily cleaned , SUCK it thru a good set of clean of filters .

The TANK is an entire different matter ,usually requires opening and a hand job.

borg warner 2.91:1 does anyone know if I have to lock the shafts down or remove props for the tow to avoid damaging the gears?


Look in Da Book for your trannys and see if the oil pump is on the output or input shaft.

Input , lock em,,,, output , perhaps you can trail the props , but I would call the factory NOT a dealer.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:37 AM   #31
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Thanks FF
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:15 AM   #32
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

I leave for Panama next Friday and I am bringing some filteration stuff with me- 110 pump from Harbor frt/big filter/case of filters. I talked to some other Hatteras LRC members and some had same issues when they bought their poorly neglected Lrc's. The tanks are fiberglass integral to hull and no inspection plates and you can't get to top of tanks to install inspection plates without tearing decks up or other major interior items and everyone on the LRC forum highly suggested not to break into tank and that their were other ways.
The tank sending unit can come out and leaves enough room to insert long copper tube down to sump of the tanks and suck out dead black crap. First I will pull the fuel out with transfer pump and take out at much as possible. Scrape with copper tube and wish around sucking up dirty fuel and dead algae. Supposedly their is a sump where the pick up goes to with a baffle around it but enough room to get copper tube through and work it around sucking up black crap (we shall see). I am gonna give it a try, after that I have a portbable 110 pump with a 10' pick up hose and a 10' return hose going through deck fill and filter the fuel through an inline filter/water seperator and change the filters when dirty. The pump does 18 gallons minute so it should come back into tank pretty brisk from return line to stir up what's left in bottom and move it around to be picked up again to be run through the filter.
I am going to use BIOBOR to kill anything active and keep filtering and filtering until hopefully I get nice pink fuel?
How does this plan sound? Should I use Biobor before I do any filtering or filter first then use biobor and filter again?

On the motor front, I have located a pair of running DD 453N up in Baton Rouge from Diesel Specialists for $8k as is or $18k for totally rebuilt (engines/gears) and down in Miami a pair of rebuilt 453's that were done 5 years ago and never painted and look rough he said. They were supposed to go in a project boat that never happened? $5k for them or $7k with test run (these make me nervous? But before I go pull the trigger on either of them I am going down there and I have a couple of possible Detroit mechanics from Colon and another from up in Guatamala that might make trip down to see IF there is anyway to get those running to make the trip down to Colon or back up to Guatamala to get on hard and rebuild the motors. I have heard from one of the Diesel Parts Supply Businesses down there (supposedly lots of detroits down there and lots of very good mechanics, they are the ones hooking me up with a DD mechainic). This makes more sense than buying up here and shipping down there.
On another note I have connected with another 48' hatteras LRC club memeber that bought a 48' in similar shape and he took to Livingston, Guatamala (Rio Dulce to be exact) where he has Detroit guy there (he might come down to see my motors) that rebuilt both his engines/gears for less than 10k back to factory specs & painted to look new. PLus he got engine room cleaned painted and most everything totally redone on the boat. Painted entire boat for under $15k, he said labor is 30% of US prices and VERY skilled labor and these guys know the 48' Hatteras LRC since they just finished his and it splashes this weekend. So wondering if anyone heard negetive or good things about Guatamala- 3 day trip up there so I better have good fuel and engines working for that trip.
Question- on my one motor the head is off detroit is is possible to put new rings in (more of tempory fix) just to get compression back or has anyone tried Marvels mystery oil down in cylinders to loosen up rings ? The other motor runs weak but as another member said run it hard for two hours to loosen rings.
I am thinking of putting other motor back together (new rings if possible) or see if a real detroit diesel mechanic can get started and get rings loosened up. I am feeling more like I may have bad info and motors may not be in as bad a shape.
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:40 PM   #33
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

The trip from Bocas to Guatemala is long with no place to stop between Isla Providencia and La Ceiba, Honduras. Livingston, Guatemala, has nothing other than Customs, Immigration and Port Captain. There are 2 yards close to Fronteras, about 25 miles up the Rio Dulce from Livingston. You can get current information at http://www.riodulcechisme.com/.

If I had a boat in Bocas and wanted it painted and needed wood work, I would take it to Cartagena in a heartbeat, it is closer, the trip is much more pleasant and transportation in and out by air is more convienient (Fronteras is a 6 hour bus ride from Guat City or 4 to 5 from San Pedro Sulu, Honduras).

Two other places for work in the vicinity of the Rio Dulce are the Honduran Navy Base at Puerto Cortez (sp), Honduras, and the La Ceiba Shipyard in La Ceiba, Honduras.

Another consideration is being able to bring parts into the country duty free. This will be a big factor if you are going to import new engines. My experience in Guatemala is they would let me carry material in in my luggage duty free. They do not allow for duty free import for a "Yacht in Transit". I looked into "importing" some items and, if my memory is correct, it added about 25% to the total cost (I think they wanted to charge me duty on the price of the item plus the shipping costs). You can use duty free "Yacht in Transit" in Honduras and Colombia.

Just my opinion.
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:22 AM   #34
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

"where he has Detroit guy there (he might come down to see my motors) that rebuilt both his engines/gears for less than 10k back to factory specs & painted to look new."

Tossing in an overhaul kit ($1200 of parts for an "inframe") does not get an old engine anything but perhaps operating.

Rebuilding requires a large experienced machine shop.

BIG DIFFERENCE

AN inframe , plus cylinder head rebuild, is fine for a running engine that has not been overheated or otherwise abused.

The history of yours is unknown.

The simplest solution to your foul tank hassle is a new day tank , say 100Gal that can be fed with fuel that has had multiple polishing passes in the stock tank , and is clean enough to operate with.

The tank needs to be large to stay cool, as a DD may pull 30gph from the tank , returning 25gph that is hot from cooling the injectors,twin engines double the heat in the tank.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:46 PM   #35
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

I just got back from Panama last week and I own the boat-On a scale of 1-10 (10 being showroom) it was a solid 5-6 and I am excited about boat. Mechanics got in 2 days after I was in and I polished and polished fuel and polished fuel. All of it was in vain when Mechanic got there he said it didn't smell like any diesel he has used and suggested for a 4 1/2 day trip I would dump it and get fresh So I hired local with 4-55 gallon drums and we started pumping and he got it to locals somehow (man those local guys are creative).
Mechanics after 5 days had both of those motors running- total head jobs and all it was was valves rusted or corroded open. First thing they did was pull heads and pour diesel down exhaust and it flowed right out the valves. He wasn't worried, he said we have running in a couple of days (well per engine) but by the time he had first engine done we started it right up with fresh fuel from a 5 gal can and two days later the other one. By then aft tank was empty and clean and 100 gal of fresh fuel and they were both running great! Then I tried Stabilizers and they worked great-autopilot worked-electronics all fired up (new in 2006) Raymarine 120 with color radar/chartplotter/fishfinder and what else? oh yes village marine 600 gal per day watermaker and many more things.
I am heading back down in July after local mechanic gets oil changes/filters changed and sea water pump for AC working and a few other minor things, I am doing 10-12 hours of shakedown cruising around Boca Del Toro and then off to Guatemala once I put $4000-$5000 worth of fuel in (OUCH!).
Boat had good paint needs buff/wax and some cosmetic work and worst thing is some leaks that caused wood rot in three places around windows, carpet needed updating or replaced with teak/holly floors in Guatemala and some brightwook needed.
I will get both motors/gears rebuilt down in Guatemala this winter since two cylinders on stbd motor had some hot spots in cylinder sleeves but it is running fine and mechanic said it would probably be fine and outlive both him and I. I am going to rebuild them for peace of mind since it is so cheap their in Guatemata.
Thanks for everyone's help & advice, I now own a 48'hatteras LRC and I will make her showroom again (It just takes money and time)
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:23 PM   #36
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Congrats! have a great trip!
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:30 AM   #37
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RE: trawler needing to be towed from Boca Del Toro, Panama to Colon, Panama & DD 453's replaced

Lucky You and a lucky boat.* A perfect match.* Have Fun!

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