Travel Warnings Issued for Mexico

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Crusty Chief said:
Not for another couple years, maybe they will kill each other off by then.
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It's actually possible. I grew up in Charlotte NC. Charlotte had the distinction some how as the East Coast Headquarters for both Hell's Angels and the Outlaws. Businesses had to ban Harleys and Harley clothing for customers to still come in. Wilkinson Boulevard was from what I later learned just lined with adult businesses owned by the gangs. Oh, for vacations they went to Myrtle Beach. 1979 was the year that all heck broke lose. A massacre in the headquarters of the Outlaws. Several murders had previously happened but largely ignored by law enforcement as they didn't much care to get involved in the death of a gang member. Now ultimately, before they could get the evidence to convict anyone, they were all dead, but even not convicted many ran, many changed their ways. Essentially all the leaders were either dead, in prison, or hiding. Many took off running out of Charlotte as fast as they could. From those still around a couple of other murders over the next two or three years. Then it was gone.

Most of the time it didn't impact law abiding citizens but if you were somewhere when they decided to fight, you were in trouble. Now, not saying this will happen to Mexico. it's a lot bigger than Charlotte and a lot more violence. But it could.
 
Suggested reading if you want to understand the capacity for violence in Mexico: “God's Middle Finger: Into the Lawless Heart of the Sierra Madre", by Richard Grant.

The typical American tourist visiting coastal destinations will never see anything like what's described in Grant's book, but as a frequent visitor, it's good to know what goes on outside the coastal areas that has the potential to spill over....

I visit Guerrero annually and have for the last 20 years. I'll go again this year. Some might prefer Hawaii for example, which to me is a bit sterile, but some place a higher priority on the probability of safety.
 
I have several friends who have built houses outside of Cabo in a gated development called Lighthouse point. They would argue to the bitter end that Mexico is safe and the crime and violence is overstated. They have had the main law enforcement officer come to their houses wearing a machine gun across their chest and ask for "fuel donations." They of course gave the gentleman some money and justified it because the police are so underfunded. They have been shaken down by police on the way down to their houses when driving down. The locals can no longer leave their boats in the water off the beach at night because a few years ago they were all stolen and the engines were cut off the back and then set adrift. There have also been some tourist caught up in the crossfire of drug deals in the area. The people we met while there were amazing and treated us like friends rather than a random tourist and that makes me feel like a hypocrite. Taking everything into consideration my wife and I have taken Mexico off our list unless we are traveling to a specific location with locals or friends that are semi local. I probably would not take my boat down and anchor out of an established marina either. Sadly anchoring out at a remote location in Mexico has been on my list of things to do but I just would not be able to relax.
 
Tom A said:
My wife & I have spent about 4 months in Mexico over the past 2 years (Lake Chapala, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, and Ensenada). We were in PV in 2015 and stopped at a beach side bar just north of the Malecon for a beer. While there, 2 tour busses parked and unloaded the tourists for lunch. One year later, in 2016, we again stopped at the same bar. In the streets on both sides were parked about 2 dozed 4 wheel drive Dodge pick-ups with machine guns mounted over the cabs on roll cages, 2 armored swat vehicles, and several buses - all Federale Army vehicles. The bar owner told us that there had been narco activity in the hills, and the Army had taken over a hotel down the street and was using it as a staging area, and that it was hurting his business badly.
About 2 weeks later when home in the states, we saw in the news that an Army helo had been shot down by the narcos and crashed on the main highway from the PV airport into town.
Other than that, we have always felt safe in Mexico.
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Just to let you know, when that happened a huge number of locals partnered with the Mexican marines from the base in town and did a number on the narcos. They haven't been back.
 
Our slip is seven miles north of the Mexican border and we have not been there in over 40 years, thanks to their quaint "mordita" policy.:mad:
 
We go to Ensenada a lot, mainly because we have a house there. We have always felt safe in most areas of town, but like any other city in the States, there are areas you just don't go into after dark.

If you do go to Ensenada, ask for directions to Antonio's, best fish tacos I've ever had.
 
-1

As noted, I don't go down there anymore, but we have plenty of bad areas in the U.S. that I also avoid.

Not sure why a BS wall is being brought up on a boating forum.

Seevee said:
I used to travel to Mexico on business... Acapulco, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Zihuatanejo and mainly Mexico City. I didn't really feel safe in any one of them, and that was years ago. You couldn't pay me to go back.

Most of Mexico is fine and there are some fine folks there, and I have friends and acquaintances there.

However, the country is on a different page when it comes to crime and safety. Crime was nuts years ago and often stayed at place with bars on the windows and armed guards. And it's worse now. And the level of safety and concern of life is much lower than the US. I can't understand why anyone would want to go there.... unless they have family there.

Build the wall. Keep them out. They've hurt us enough, and we don't need any more.
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For what it is worth, Mexico has the same murder rate as Fort Wayne, Indiana. It is lower than 19 U.S. cities. St. Louis has a higher murder rate than every country on the entire planet except for Honduras and El Salvador. You are twice as likely to get murdered in Memphis than in Mexico. I could go on, but....
 
Murder stats cant be applied evenly across the board.

What are the stats of a foreigner vs aclocal whether in some US city or a foreign land?

I have been in towns where you are perfectly safe unless you go to one bar in town....then it depends on race, financial background, attitude, etc.....but face to face with the wrong guy at the wrong time....YOUR muder rate is pretty high.
 
Most all ordinary folks the world-round are friendly and helpful. Nevertheless, one needs to be selective where one goes, wherever in the world, which can include excluding whole countries but I wouldn't write-off Mexico. (Beware of pickpockets in Roma, Italia, especially at the subway station at its main railway station.)

I don't visit bars. But in Venice, they're small wine bars with tasty snack food. Ordinary people are their customers; no rough types.
 
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CaptTPT said:
This is the biggest bunch of BS imaginable. I go to PV on a very regular basis. I know many many Mexicans there. I have never once felt unsafe there. The Mexicans I know are very hard working, honest, and wonderful people. I feel safer in PV than much of LA, Chicago, SF, or Houston, and I've been to them all many times.
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I don't question your post regarding your personal safety. There is however enough "smoke" from others leading me to believe there is real danger in Mexico. I would never take a boat there nor would I plan a Mexican vacation. With all the "smoke" warnings, I believe a "fire" risk is too real.
 
foggysail said:
I don't question your post regarding your personal safety. There is however enough "smoke" from others leading me to believe there is real danger in Mexico. I would never take a boat there nor would I plan a Mexican vacation. With all the "smoke" warnings, I believe a "fire" risk is too real.
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Ok I get your issue. However, let's not describe this as "Mexico" but rather specific places in Mexico. If you take the Mexico approach then you better get out of the US and go to Bhutan cuz you have a greater chance of violence here than in Mexico.
 
psneeld said:
Murder stats cant be applied evenly across the board.

What are the stats of a foreigner vs aclocal whether in some US city or a foreign land?

I have been in towns where you are perfectly safe unless you go to one bar in town....then it depends on race, financial background, attitude, etc.....but face to face with the wrong guy at the wrong time....YOUR muder rate is pretty high.
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Does that mean the murder rate on St Louis isn't 4 x higher than in Mexico? Myrtle Beach has double the murder rate of Mexico City. You reckon that's not relevant to a question of whether it is "safe" to visit that country?
 
Delfin said:
What is the consensus on the Sea of Cortez?
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The Sea of Cortez is a fabulous place to be on a boat. The Delta Swizzler has been down here now full time for the last two years and we continue to extend our stay. The people are wonderful,hard working and hard partying people. We came down with the Cubar in 2015 and have cruised the Sea as far north as Rocky Point orbPuerto Penasco and never felt threatened.

We have down trips inland to Copper Canyon, spend a month in Guadalajara and currently spending a month in Ajijic. Look that up on Google earth. Everywhere we have been we met great people from all around the world enjoying life.

Can you be killed here, sure, but with no more risk than anywhere else. Stray bullets kill innocent people everyday in the US, but that doesn't keep you inside. Be smart, act accordingly and you'll be fine.

Cut the lines, leave the dock and enjoy life. The Delta Swizzler will be leaving Rocky Point in October and headed south to Puerto Vallarta. We expect to be in that area till mid May. Come on down and enjoy the weather, the people and how far a dollar can take you.
 
Dswizzler said:
The Sea of Cortez is a fabulous place to be on a boat. The Delta Swizzler has been down here now full time for the last two years and we continue to extend our stay. The people are wonderful,hard working and hard partying people. We came down with the Cubar in 2015 and have cruised the Sea as far north as Rocky Point orbPuerto Penasco and never felt threatened.

We have down trips inland to Copper Canyon, spend a month in Guadalajara and currently spending a month in Ajijic. Look that up on Google earth. Everywhere we have been we met great people from all around the world enjoying life.

Can you be killed here, sure, but with no more risk than anywhere else. Stray bullets kill innocent people everyday in the US, but that doesn't keep you inside. Be smart, act accordingly and you'll be fine.

Cut the lines, leave the dock and enjoy life. The Delta Swizzler will be leaving Rocky Point in October and headed south to Puerto Vallarta. We expect to be in that area till mid May. Come on down and enjoy the weather, the people and how far a dollar can take you.
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Healthy perspective, DS. I appreciate it.
 
Good to hear people have good experiences down there. As noted, I have not been down there in many years, and most of my information is anecdotal these days.


The boat registration snafu a couple years ago turned me off, but sounds like that has been resolved?


Good point about finding trouble. Some people have a knack for that. Personally, I don't go to bars at night, avoid bad areas, and in bed at 9 pm - wherever I happen to be. IE, I respect the fact I am a visitor in someone else's country.


We have a new trawler on order, so going to the tip of Baja will be within reach. On our previous boats, I could barely make it to Ensenada.


Personally, I am going to continue to monitor the situation and hopefully make the long run all the way down to the tip when we retire in a few years.
 
Look me up I expect to be here another,2-3 years before heading south, but according to my wife she has no interest in leaving period. We just found a nice 60 day escape to Ajijic/Chapala areas, during the really hot days of summer, so we'll see. But so far we are loving it do here. Just took a quick trip to Mazamilta, I see a return trip in my future. So many places to see and people to meet. The hardest thing to do is step OFF the dock and cruise.
 
CaptTPT said:
This is the biggest bunch of BS imaginable. I go to PV on a very regular basis. I know many many Mexicans there. I have never once felt unsafe there. The Mexicans I know are very hard working, honest, and wonderful people. I feel safer in PV than much of LA, Chicago, SF, or Houston, and I've been to them all many times.
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CaptTPT,

Well, maybe..... but there's more risk than MY tolerance allows. To each his own. You can feel safe down there, doesn't mean there's no risk.

And, I said nothing about the work ethics, honesty or how wonderful Mexicans are, but I believe that's true. Doesn't mean there are all nice sweet Mexicans that won't slit your throat for a buck.
 
Seevee said:
I'm just responding to others. I did not originally bring up the wall, but do feel it's a good idea.
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And Forums are a great place for discussing those views and ideas. However, staying on topic as much as possible is appreciated by all who are interested in the original thread. We also try help by having sub forums dedicated to non boating and other type discussions, which would seem appropriate should you want to discuss it further.

Thanks for understanding.
 
Seevee said:
CaptTPT,

Well, maybe..... but there's more risk than MY tolerance allows. To each his own. You can feel safe down there, doesn't mean there's no risk.

And, I said nothing about the work ethics, honesty or how wonderful Mexicans are, but I believe that's true. Doesn't mean there are all nice sweet Mexicans that won't slit your throat for a buck.
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You can stay couped up in you little home or your little community if you like and if you are afraid to go out. For me I like to venture out and experience what there is out there. I have had an amazing time in PV over the years. My advice to you is don't venture out in east LA after dark or you may not get out alive. I guess that means leave the country cuz it's not safe. Right? Well probably not, but use ur head. Just like I do in Mexico. It's ok. The people there are amazing. Give it a go.
 
Seevee said:
CaptTPT,

Well, maybe..... but there's more risk than MY tolerance allows. To each his own. You can feel safe down there, doesn't mean there's no risk.

And, I said nothing about the work ethics, honesty or how wonderful Mexicans are, but I believe that's true. Doesn't mean there are all nice sweet Mexicans that won't slit your throat for a buck.
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This is the "Risk Averse" Seevee.
See the Insurance thread for a very different Seevee
 
CaptTPT said:
You can stay couped up in you little home or your little community if you like and if you are afraid to go out. For me I like to venture out and experience what there is out there. I have had an amazing time in PV over the years. My advice to you is don't venture out in east LA after dark or you may not get out alive. I guess that means leave the country cuz it's not safe. Right? Well probably not, but use ur head. Just like I do in Mexico. It's ok. The people there are amazing. Give it a go.
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The condescending tone isn't helpful. Neither my home nor my community are small and I have travelled our country and many others extensively.

You are either naive or lying to yourself if you believe you are as safe in Mexico as you are in the US. I understand you are comfortable with the risk and think that rewards outweigh that risk and I respect your choice. Trying to convince others that the risk isn't there in order to validate your own choice isn't necessary. Enjoy your travels.
 
dimer2 said:
And Forums are a great place for discussing those views and ideas. However, staying on topic as much as possible is appreciated by all who are interested in the original thread. We also try help by having sub forums dedicated to non boating and other type discussions, which would seem appropriate should you want to discuss it further.

Thanks for understanding.
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Dimer,

You're absolutely right, and my apologies for getting off topic.
 
koliver said:
This is the "Risk Averse" Seevee.
See the Insurance thread for a very different Seevee
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Yep. I'd rather use superior knowledge and good judgement to avoid high risk things that use superior skill or insurance benefits to bail out... or worse.

Overall, Mexico has a lot of nice places, but could argue strongly that one really needs to know where they are going and what risks are there, just like one would in the US.

I can understand why folks don't want to go there.
 
guy with a boat said:
The condescending tone isn't helpful. Neither my home nor my community are small and I have travelled our country and many others extensively.

You are either naive or lying to yourself if you believe you are as safe in Mexico as you are in the US. I understand you are comfortable with the risk and think that rewards outweigh that risk and I respect your choice. Trying to convince others that the risk isn't there in order to validate your own choice isn't necessary. Enjoy your travels.
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Do you spend time in PV or do you just read the sensationalized newspapers? I go there very regularly. I am a hypervigilant person. Always aware of what's going on around me. Never had nor have seen an issue. I'm not saying nobody get assaulted in PV. Just saying generally it's very safe. If you want to look at stats then let's look at stats but don't generalize to the whole country because that is just garbage. I live in a generally calm college town but there are places here I just don't go to. Just like in Mexico.
 
CaptTPT said:
Do you spend time in PV or do you just read the sensationalized newspapers? I go there very regularly. I am a hypervigilant person. Always aware of what's going on around me. Never had nor have seen an issue. I'm not saying nobody get assaulted in PV. Just saying generally it's very safe. If you want to look at stats then let's look at stats but don't generalize to the whole country because that is just garbage. I live in a generally calm college town but there are places here I just don't go to. Just like in Mexico.
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CaptTPT,

By PV I assume you mean Puerto Vallarta? It may be perfectly safe and fine to you. Most of us don't know the risk in that town.

The OP posted the State Departments warnings, and I'm one that doesn't believe they use sensationalism for their warnings, like the news does. The warning includes how terror is happening with abductions from hotels, cars for ransome, various crime areas with details, etc.

There may be some good places down there, but "generally" we can sweep with a large brush and say "it ain't safe". Sure, there's probably hideouts that might be safe, but I'd bet that most of us would not disregard the warnings and blast down there. There IS a reason for the warnings.

I could also argue to head the warnings for other countries.

And there's no comparison with just staying in the US. Most of us know the areas we go in the US and what to avoid. If you're intimately familiar with Mexico and where the guy might car jack you or abduct you from your hotel, you can probably survive fine.

It's part of risk management... not for me.
 
Sounds like a lot of glasses half empty with these comments, guess I tend to look at all the wonderful places you miss if you don't take some risk in life. But just like many boats don't leave the dock, many readers will never see the beauty around them. Fine with me, that means most beautiful anchorages for ME !
 
Dswizzler said:
Sounds like a lot of glasses half empty with these comments, guess I tend to look at all the wonderful places you miss if you don't take some risk in life. But just like many boats don't leave the dock, many readers will never see the beauty around them. Fine with me, that means most beautiful anchorages for ME !
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Dswizzler,

Not sure that's the case. I'd bet that a lot of us have done enough traveling to make decisions on what's worth seeing and safe. We just can't see it all, so we choose.

As for me, I've been around the world several times and to many countries... and I've missed a bunch, too, some that I'll never see. Is my cup half empty? And there are some that I'll never go back to, like Mexico... it just ain't worth my time considering the risk. I've been to several of the towns down there and you couldn't pay me to go back. There's nothing more I want to see down there. Will I miss it, hell no!

I've got enough place and things to do in the US to last me the rest of my life and even then, I'll miss some of them. Right now my priority is the Loop trip, but I'll do several smaller "week" trips in the US prior (and during) the trip. Foreign countries other than Canada are not on the list.

So, we choose. There a PLENTY of nice places to see without the risk and the State Dept warnings.

To each his own... if you go down there, we'll be concerned for you.
 
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