With the kind permission of Steve D'Antonio.
http://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FlemingFinalProBoat151.pdf
http://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FlemingFinalProBoat151.pdf
Tony Fleming: A great professional & human "Venture".
- Thread starter User915
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
McGillicuddy
Guru
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2015
- Messages
- 754
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Scot Free
- Vessel Make
- Cheoy Lee 53' Efficient
Nice article by Steve. I was not aware that Tim Ellis, a friend of mine, had been such an influence on Tony Fleming. Tim is a wonderful gentleman and a treat to spend time with.
Comodave
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 21,276
- Location
- Au Gres, MI
- Vessel Name
- Black Dog
- Vessel Make
- Formula 41PC
If only I could afford my dream boat, a Flemming 55, life would be perfect...
eyschulman
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,288
I love the Flemming boats, so well done. My type of boat SD wide speed scale twins etc. I considered buying one and the cost was not the issue. If I ventured into open waters or far off places a perfect boat. Every time we boarded one we came away with the same impression, High topsides and a lot of boat for the two of us. Without guests which we have decided after many decades of boating we rather not have we would be bouncing around in a lot of empty space. Nevertheless TF's ideas and take on how to build and equip a boat are right on.
Diesel Duck
Senior Member
For those who haven't already seen Tony Flemings video series on Venture I highly recommend you check them out. They're on youtube and here's a link to, I think, the first one in the series:
.
.
Daddyo
Guru
dw8928
Senior Member
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Flemings are lot more than the hull - I love Tony's boats!
Plus hulls are only protected for 10 years under the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act:
"Design protection for vessel hulls is for a period of ten years and is available only for original designs that are embodied in an actual vessel hull: no protection is available for designs that exist only in models, drawings, or representations."
https://www.copyright.gov/reports/vhdpa-report.pdf
Plus hulls are only protected for 10 years under the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act:
"Design protection for vessel hulls is for a period of ten years and is available only for original designs that are embodied in an actual vessel hull: no protection is available for designs that exist only in models, drawings, or representations."
https://www.copyright.gov/reports/vhdpa-report.pdf
BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 13,347
- Vessel Name
- Sojourn
- Vessel Make
- Integrity 386
There was an F55 anchored near us last weekend, great looking boat. And I`ve been welcomed on board one at the Sydney boat show, without supplying my inside leg measurement, like some other brands on display. If Fleming "borrowed" from other designs that`s no concern, look at different auto builders and how they all produce a basic "shape" at the same, always wondered how and why that happens.
jjorgenson3
Senior Member
Excellent article. Thank you for sharing.
Jim
Jim
Thanks Brian and Jim. For those interested, Tony's memoirs "Riding the Tide" is an original & inspiring story of one man's passion, available both as a printed book and on Kindle.
https://www.amazon.com/Riding-Tide-Engineering-Thirst-Adventure-ebook/dp/B00MY49LCI
Very interesting Q&A in Tony's interview:
http://www.flemingyachts.com/pdf/tony_inteview.pdf
Jim, what size is your Alaskan, 46 or 49 ? In the 70' I got the chance with my family to board and have a sea trial on the first Alaskan model - a 46' - delivered in the Med.
I was on the right of the photo, my father, the man wearing a tie, owned the second Grand Banks 42' Classic (Hull # 52) delivered in the Med, he ordered her in early 1968. Built in Junk Bay, Kowloon, Honk Kong under the supervision of Tony Fleming, she was shipped in July 1968 from Hong Kong to Marseille, France, where she arrived in September.
Attachments
jjorgenson3
Senior Member
Hi Olivier,
She is a 46(Hull #28)
She was Defever design and Fleming built. You all were dressed well on her the sea trial day. I have some more history on her that I could post as well. I will look for it. Lots has been done to her and our job is to continue her legacy.
Talk soon.
Jim
She is a 46(Hull #28)
She was Defever design and Fleming built. You all were dressed well on her the sea trial day. I have some more history on her that I could post as well. I will look for it. Lots has been done to her and our job is to continue her legacy.
Talk soon.
Jim
jjorgenson3
Senior Member
Here's an updated article:
The prior owner of “Jerry Land” was RADM Mark “Buz” Buzby, USN (ret) a resident of the East Beach neighborhood in Norfolk, VA. Now that she is back in familiar waters, we’d like to tell you her very interesting story.
The Motor Vessel Jerry Land was "born" in Hong Kong in 1970. She is made of teak and yackel (an Asian oak) - from bow to stern 100 percent wood. She was designed by noted naval architect, Arthur DeFever, and her construction was overseen by Tony Fleming, who is still building beautiful yachts today. "Jerry" is 46 feet long and has a keel draft of 5 feet. But, all of these facts don't describe her enough. Only her incredible story, thus far, can do that.
She was built especially for Mr. C. Thomas Clagett a prominent Washington, DC attorney, and was christened Anore after his lovely wife. Both were avid sailors who were slowing down a bit, wanted a little less stressful way to enjoy the water, and appreciated the comforts of a spacious motor yacht.
In late 1973, as the workups for the 1974 America’s Cup yacht races began, Mr. Clagett decided to donate his yacht to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy's Kings Point Fund which was sponsoring a campaign for the 12 Meter yachts, Mariner and Valiant to defend the Cup. "Jerry" would serve these yachts as tender (a boat used to service a larger one - generally by transporting people and/or supplies to and from shore or another ship). His desire was that the "Jerry" be turned over to the academy after her 12 meter tender duties were over. The academy could then use the boat for training midshipmen in learning the ways of the sea.
So, after the races that summer of '74, Mr. Clagett did just that. He donated the boat and asked that she be re-christened in memory of his best friend, Admiral Emory S. “Jerry” Land, USN (ret) who as Chairman of the US Maritime Commission led the massive Merchant Marine build up during World War II.
(Note:Vice Admiral Emory Scott Land (January 8, 1879 – November 27, 1971: Land retired in 1937, but on February 18, 1938 he became Chairman of the U.S. Maritime Commission, overseeing the design and construction of the more than 4,000 Liberty ships and Victory ships that flew the U.S. flag during World War II. Land concurrently served as Administrator of the War Shipping Administration (WSA), established by Executive Order 9054 on February 7, 1942. Thus Admiral Land exercised authority over both construction and allocation of non-combatant maritime assets to Army, Navy and commerce.
Admiral Land was also instrumental in overseeing the establishment of the United States Merchant Marine Academy, located in Kings Point, New York as a commissioning source for officers entering the Merchant Marine and Naval Reserve in World War II.)
Also, that summer, Midshipman Mark "Buz" Buzby came to attend the academy from Atlantic City, NJ. He was one of the very first to come aboard. He loved her lines and spent a great deal of his time learning to handle her as well as keeping her wood freshly varnished, painted and repaired.
One of "Buz" and "Jerry's" finest moments together was when the boat served as a tender, again, during the 1976 tall ships festival in Newport, RI. "Jerry's" assignment was to embark the Auchincloss family at the Hammersmith Farms dock and take them out into the Narragansett Bay to observe the Parade of Sail. The stand-out, celebrity in the group was Mrs. Jackie Kennedy Onassis. She met with Midshipman Buzby and the rest of the crew and enjoyed her cruise onboard "Jerry".
After four years of tending to her during his academy life, he had to say goodbye at graduation and upon entering the US Navy. His parting words to staff friends at Kings Point were, "If you ever decide to sell her, call me first." Fast forward to 1984 where Lieutenant Buzby was serving aboard one of the Navy's Hydrofoil ships in Key West, Florida. A naval message from the Academy was received: "“Jerry Land" is for sale, are you interested?” He flew to NY, was reunited, made the arrangements, and bought her for his own.
Over the years, "Jerry" participated in Buz's wedding to Gina Warren Buzby, hosted Admirals, Chiefs, dignitaries, VIP's, celebrities, military spouse groups, friends and family. She lived in five different states, cruised the Intra-Coastal Waterway four times, and served as Buz’s home for 12 of the 31 years he owned her, including the first year that Buz and Gina were married (in Annapolis, MD). She celebrates her 45th birthday this year. She has left a proud memory with Mark and Gina Buzby.
Now for the next part of her journey with her new master and as always in graceful style moved north back to familiar waters. Living the lifelong dream and moving her from Norfolk to the Hudson River was the next step in her life and a very proud moment for Jim and Linda.
We have a huge responsibility caring for this fine vessel and promised to keep her sailing proud across calm waters for many years to come.
Jim & Linda Jorgenson
The prior owner of “Jerry Land” was RADM Mark “Buz” Buzby, USN (ret) a resident of the East Beach neighborhood in Norfolk, VA. Now that she is back in familiar waters, we’d like to tell you her very interesting story.
The Motor Vessel Jerry Land was "born" in Hong Kong in 1970. She is made of teak and yackel (an Asian oak) - from bow to stern 100 percent wood. She was designed by noted naval architect, Arthur DeFever, and her construction was overseen by Tony Fleming, who is still building beautiful yachts today. "Jerry" is 46 feet long and has a keel draft of 5 feet. But, all of these facts don't describe her enough. Only her incredible story, thus far, can do that.
She was built especially for Mr. C. Thomas Clagett a prominent Washington, DC attorney, and was christened Anore after his lovely wife. Both were avid sailors who were slowing down a bit, wanted a little less stressful way to enjoy the water, and appreciated the comforts of a spacious motor yacht.
In late 1973, as the workups for the 1974 America’s Cup yacht races began, Mr. Clagett decided to donate his yacht to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy's Kings Point Fund which was sponsoring a campaign for the 12 Meter yachts, Mariner and Valiant to defend the Cup. "Jerry" would serve these yachts as tender (a boat used to service a larger one - generally by transporting people and/or supplies to and from shore or another ship). His desire was that the "Jerry" be turned over to the academy after her 12 meter tender duties were over. The academy could then use the boat for training midshipmen in learning the ways of the sea.
So, after the races that summer of '74, Mr. Clagett did just that. He donated the boat and asked that she be re-christened in memory of his best friend, Admiral Emory S. “Jerry” Land, USN (ret) who as Chairman of the US Maritime Commission led the massive Merchant Marine build up during World War II.
(Note:Vice Admiral Emory Scott Land (January 8, 1879 – November 27, 1971: Land retired in 1937, but on February 18, 1938 he became Chairman of the U.S. Maritime Commission, overseeing the design and construction of the more than 4,000 Liberty ships and Victory ships that flew the U.S. flag during World War II. Land concurrently served as Administrator of the War Shipping Administration (WSA), established by Executive Order 9054 on February 7, 1942. Thus Admiral Land exercised authority over both construction and allocation of non-combatant maritime assets to Army, Navy and commerce.
Admiral Land was also instrumental in overseeing the establishment of the United States Merchant Marine Academy, located in Kings Point, New York as a commissioning source for officers entering the Merchant Marine and Naval Reserve in World War II.)
Also, that summer, Midshipman Mark "Buz" Buzby came to attend the academy from Atlantic City, NJ. He was one of the very first to come aboard. He loved her lines and spent a great deal of his time learning to handle her as well as keeping her wood freshly varnished, painted and repaired.
One of "Buz" and "Jerry's" finest moments together was when the boat served as a tender, again, during the 1976 tall ships festival in Newport, RI. "Jerry's" assignment was to embark the Auchincloss family at the Hammersmith Farms dock and take them out into the Narragansett Bay to observe the Parade of Sail. The stand-out, celebrity in the group was Mrs. Jackie Kennedy Onassis. She met with Midshipman Buzby and the rest of the crew and enjoyed her cruise onboard "Jerry".
After four years of tending to her during his academy life, he had to say goodbye at graduation and upon entering the US Navy. His parting words to staff friends at Kings Point were, "If you ever decide to sell her, call me first." Fast forward to 1984 where Lieutenant Buzby was serving aboard one of the Navy's Hydrofoil ships in Key West, Florida. A naval message from the Academy was received: "“Jerry Land" is for sale, are you interested?” He flew to NY, was reunited, made the arrangements, and bought her for his own.
Over the years, "Jerry" participated in Buz's wedding to Gina Warren Buzby, hosted Admirals, Chiefs, dignitaries, VIP's, celebrities, military spouse groups, friends and family. She lived in five different states, cruised the Intra-Coastal Waterway four times, and served as Buz’s home for 12 of the 31 years he owned her, including the first year that Buz and Gina were married (in Annapolis, MD). She celebrates her 45th birthday this year. She has left a proud memory with Mark and Gina Buzby.
Now for the next part of her journey with her new master and as always in graceful style moved north back to familiar waters. Living the lifelong dream and moving her from Norfolk to the Hudson River was the next step in her life and a very proud moment for Jim and Linda.
We have a huge responsibility caring for this fine vessel and promised to keep her sailing proud across calm waters for many years to come.
Jim & Linda Jorgenson
Jim & Linda,
Great and amazing ! Warm thanks for sharing here. Jerry Land is a remarkable example of famous living history, also she is the story of an improbable and beautiful friendship between a man, Buz, and his vessel, nothing is more refreshing than to hear such story.
Congratulations, you are lucky to own Jerry Land and her special seldom seen heritage. She is a boat with a soul, keep taking good care of her, she would deserve that.
Best of luck, fair winds and calm sea.
"La vie est toujours meilleure avec un bateau"
PS : Yes, Alaskan 46' was designed by Art Defever. Alaskan 49' was designed by Robert Dorris.
Attached photo : An Alaskan on the Loch Ness, Scotland.
Great and amazing ! Warm thanks for sharing here. Jerry Land is a remarkable example of famous living history, also she is the story of an improbable and beautiful friendship between a man, Buz, and his vessel, nothing is more refreshing than to hear such story.
Congratulations, you are lucky to own Jerry Land and her special seldom seen heritage. She is a boat with a soul, keep taking good care of her, she would deserve that.
Best of luck, fair winds and calm sea.
"La vie est toujours meilleure avec un bateau"
PS : Yes, Alaskan 46' was designed by Art Defever. Alaskan 49' was designed by Robert Dorris.
Attached photo : An Alaskan on the Loch Ness, Scotland.
Attachments
Last edited:
Sorry I missed your post before.
Art Defever was one of the most renowned yacht designer. He built his first boat at 17, then later tuna vessels and good recreational trawlers know worldwide which all designs remain legendery. He was a great sailor and sailboat racer at high range championship levels. He was certainly be gifted for drawing, perhaps fully in line with his father's skills who worked at Universal Studios Art Division designing many movies sets, it was a talented family. Moreover Art Defever was an amazing human personality with his own spiritual charisma. Having sailed on his first designed boat being delivered in the Med, I was sad when he passed away.
His Alaskan 46 was mostly inspired (I said "inspired", I would never say "he copied") by Bill Garden's Blue Heron built 10 years before the American Marine Alaskan 46.
But having said that, the photo #1 that you showed was an Alaskan 49 woody built in the 70' by American Marine Ltd in Junk Bay, Hong Kong, which was designed by Robert S. Dorris (American Marine News Magazine attached), this was NOT a photo of Arthur Defever's Grand Alaskan or American Marine Alaskan 46.
As Steve D'Ambrosio stated, "After the show, it was settled; they (Tony Fleming and Anton Emmerton) decided to build a pilothouse design in Taiwan, and Fleming Yachts was born. (They agreed to the name only after considering many other options, including Aleutian and Falmouth. A mutual friend suggested Fleming, and it stuck.)
To look at the original drawings for inspiration and ideas, the partners (Tony Fleming and Anton Emmerton) sought out designer Bob Doris, who had designed all the Alaskans except the 46. Doris, by then retired, had no interest in taking on the new design project..... Finally, they called
on Larry Drake, who had previously worked for American Marine. Drake agreed to produce the initial design for a modest fee, with a second payment after the first boat shipped, plus a royalty on every hull built. (As a mark of the manner in which Fleming Yachts did, and continues to do, business, royalty payments were made until Drake’s death, and continue to be made to Drake’s widow to this day.)
Since Robert Dorris had no interest in the new adventure and was very well aware of the full process involving Larry Drake, I do not see anything wrong with the subsequent decisions taken by Tony Fleming and Anton Emmerton, also it comes as no surprise that the 2 boats (the Alaskan 49 from Robert Dorris and the Fleming 50 hull # 001 from Larry Dake) had the same design. If (I point out the "if") there was an issue, it was certainly between Art Defever and American Marine Ltd which is none of our business for the reason with no expert knowledge of this file we must mistrust common gossip and rumors, as a general rule. Therefore Tony Fleming's integrity could not be called into question.
So, I'm a little confused with your post and the wrong photo. Perhaps you should ask a moderator to delete the photo #1 of your post, at least, or since you are a professional, you can set me straight here? Thank you in advance.
Attachments
Daddyo
Guru
I am a professional but obviously not an expert at spotting improperly labeled Internet photos. That was a quick pull from the interwebs to illustrate. Thank you for the clarification. The story I was referring to was from an article I read about Art and the accusation of the measuring his boat came from Art himself. Of course there is always a chance it's not true but it was Art's position.
Thank you for your kind explanation.
About the wrong picture you showed, I just wanted to kindly draw that to your attention. Everyone can make a mistake.
About your post, I know exactly where and when this rumor came from, with all relevant details. All I can say here is that this rumor was totally groundless.
But I am aware that you do not have to take just my word for it.
Last edited:
First, we don't know it occurred or why you added that here. However, let's say he measured the length of Defever's boat, unless he was trespassing there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps he wanted to design a similar length. I've seen boat designs copied and the way that is done is they buy a boat and build a mold around it. That is design theft. Whatever took place here is far from it.There are boats similar in design to Bill Garden's everywhere. He's an admired designer as is Defever, but Garden designed far more boats. I can't wait to get to the museum in CT and see all his designs there.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 4,276
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Insequent
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
I was interested to see that Ed Monk Jnr was at one point approached by Fleming. He drew the Ocean Alexander Mk 1 (see my avatar), which had a run of just under a hundred hulls starting around 1978 and ending, I think, in 1983. Well before the first Fleming. There is a fair bit of similarity to the Fleming design.
What I think it comes down to is that in a Raised Pilothouse hull design you are going to end up with 'peas from the same pod', and who knows how many other designers had created similar designs before the ones being mentioned here? The differentiator's are the internal general arrangement, fixtures and fittings used and QC during construction.
The RPH is a very practical layout and its no surprise that boats by all of the designers are still sought after.
What I think it comes down to is that in a Raised Pilothouse hull design you are going to end up with 'peas from the same pod', and who knows how many other designers had created similar designs before the ones being mentioned here? The differentiator's are the internal general arrangement, fixtures and fittings used and QC during construction.
The RPH is a very practical layout and its no surprise that boats by all of the designers are still sought after.
I can't wait as well.
More about Bill Garden :
Pacific Northwest Boating News: From runabouts to rumrunners: talk focuses on Bill Garden’s wooden motor yachts | Three Sheets Northwest
Brian, photo attached, to answer to your question about other designers before the ones mentioned here.
Attachments
Last edited:
Hi Jim
I found this in my archives of American Marine News magazines, perhaps it could be interesting for you.
Attachments
BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 13,347
- Vessel Name
- Sojourn
- Vessel Make
- Integrity 386
Complimentary articles like the OP`s attachment often only appear after the subject passes away, so it is good to read Tony Fleming is very much still with us.
jjorgenson3
Senior Member
Thank you
jjorgenson3
Senior Member
Hi Olivier,
This is very good. Could you send me the file in a PDF?
Best Regards,
Jim
This is very good. Could you send me the file in a PDF?
Best Regards,
Jim
Hi Jim
Yes of course I will make a PDF & send.
By the way, attached pictures of How to differentiate Alaskan 46 and 49 from afar.
Best regards
Olivier
Attachments
Hi Jim
Here is your 5-page PDF :
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
Click - Load - Save
Let me know about the link, if it doesn't work there I will send by email.
Fair winds
Olivier
jjorgenson3
Senior Member
Perfect and thank you Olivier
Jim
Jim
Jim, you are most welcome, glad the download worked from there.
Now I deleted the link.
