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Old 09-16-2015, 12:33 AM   #21
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1 st year on the new boat cruised with a groco manual. 2 girls under 12. 2 week trip needed rubber glove correction three times.

Jabsco quiet flush install and no gloves since.
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Old 09-16-2015, 01:03 AM   #22
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Our 1973 boat has its original toilets, a pair of salt water Jabsco EBs, Jurassic Edition. They are electric in that a very noisy motor and gearbox operate the manual mechanism through a connecting rod.

For some reason a month or so after acquiring the boat in 1998 we disconnected the connecting rod and operated one manually and what a difference. Not only is it almost noiseless but one can feel the resistance of the "material" going through the diaphragm pump in the action of the handle and so can vary the speed and pressure accordingly which is probably a little easier on the toilet pumping components than the motor and gearbox slamming the thing back and forth.

With solid bronze construction and rebuild kits still available, we've elected to keep the EBs despite there being far more sophisticated toilets on the market today. Guests have no problems with them and operationally they are damn near bulletproof. They are simple and intuitive to work on when necessary, but for the most part they just keep going only wanting a rebuild kit put in every seven or eight years, a job that takes less than an hour.

I'm not saying I'd recommend a manual toilet over an electric-- it boils down to personal preferences--- but if we had to replace our EBs we'd try to find an equally reliable, easy-to-maintain manual toilet if there is one on the market today.
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Old 09-16-2015, 01:31 AM   #23
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Hi Marin, the EB was made by Groco. I always thought it was a fine toilet but Groco quit making them. They still make the K toilet which is just as good or better but very expensive.

A lot of the early electric toilets were just manual toilets with gears and motors hung on them. I never saw the point. I have a Groco K toilet that will accept the same gear box and motor as your EB but, like you, I'd never do it.
In fact I think I've got a couple of those conversion kits in my store. I think one of them is 32 volt. I doubt I'll ever sell any of them!
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Old 09-16-2015, 02:12 AM   #24
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Hi Marin, the EB was made by Groco.
You're correct. Don't know why I said Jabsco. Maybe I was thinking of our macerator pumps.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:43 AM   #25
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Just today I put a new set of seals etc through a current version Mk3 manual Jabsco. Easy.
I have plans to replace it with a Jabsco electric, we have the wiring for the OEM electric someone removed. Conversion kits here cost more than a new Jabsco electric. When I raised the Jabsco conversion kit on a previous thread it got shat upon from a great height, on the grounds of noise and effectiveness.
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:03 AM   #26
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As for noise, today's electric macerating toilets are a LOT quieter than they used to be, especially those designed to use pressurized fresh water. The Raritan Marine Elegance is the quietest marine toilet on the planet. Their SeaEra QC is a close second.
We had an old jabsco electric that was quite loud (and small) but more importantly a big water user and just did not work well. I changed it out a month ago for a Rariton marine elegance with the optional smart toilet control and I have to say, one of the best improvements I've made to the boat. Plus being a "full size" head with a porcelain bowl (no plastic) is hard to beat. Pricey? Yes but well worth the cost IMHO.

....and how did I know about this? Peggy educated me on the whole process and I made my decision based on her extensive knowledge and research. Couldn't be happier and thank you again Peggy. ( and my wife thanks you even more)
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:56 PM   #27
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BruceK, There are four Jabsco conversion kits commonly available.
This one is the easiest to install. It is also the noisiest and least reliable.

29200 Series Electric Toilet Conversion Kit > Conversion Kits > Xylem Flow Control - Let's Solve Water.

This one is still pretty noisy but more reliable. Most of the noise comes from the rubber impeller intake pump.

37010-Series Electric Toilet Base Kit > Conversion Kits > Xylem Flow Control - Let's Solve Water.

The other two look similar but use either water from your pressure water system or a remote seawater pump to supply the flush water. They are much quieter.

Conversion Kits > Xylem Flow Control - Let's Solve Water.


Raritan also makes similar conversion kits in their Sea Era line.


The Sea Era kit with the intake pump mounted on the motor is somewhat quieter than the equivalent Jabsco kit. Raritan uses a diaphragm intake pump rather than a rubber impeller pump.

Raritan also makes remote pump and fresh water conversion kits.
http://www.raritaneng.com/wp-content...rsionv1012.pdf

Peggie prefers the Raritan.

You may actually save money ordering it from the US. I've shipped a couple of the Sea Era kits to Oz and even with shipping they were cheaper than the folks could buy them over there.

It doesn't work when you try to ship complete toilets. The bowl makes it too big and heavy. I can mail the conversion kits.
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:11 PM   #28
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The other two look similar but use either water from your pressure water system or a remote seawater pump to supply the flush water.
What are the pros and cons of using seawater?
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:43 PM   #29
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Hawgwash, Sea water can cause bad smells when the little critters and weeds in sea water get trapped in the rim of the bowl and die. I think it also causes build up in the discharge hose faster than a fresh water flush would.

The down side to a fresh water flush is, of course, you are using up your limited fresh water supply.

A plus for the fresh water flush is that they are usually cheaper than a salt water flush toilet. You don't need to buy an intake pump.
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:52 PM   #30
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Hawgwash, Sea water can cause bad smells when the little critters and weeds in sea water get trapped in the rim of the bowl and die. I think it also causes build up in the discharge hose faster than a fresh water flush would.

The down side to a fresh water flush is, of course, you are using up your limited fresh water supply.

A plus for the fresh water flush is that they are usually cheaper than a salt water flush toilet. You don't need to buy an intake pump.
Thanks.
I think I recall Peggy talking about the critters and smells.
Never found that with any of the manual seawater systems I've had and I wonder water temperature makes a difference.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:12 PM   #31
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TMC (cheap copy of Jabsco) with standard (large) porcelain bowl has been in use for nearly 12 years.

I have replaced the flapper valve twice but that's all. I removed the water impeller when we installed it and connected it to the raw water wash-down pump via a pressure controlled solenoid valve. It's very quiet and reliable. We have a spare pump on board but have never needed it.

It's plumbed to an ancient Lectrasan EC which runs on the start batteries, although the toilet itself runs on the house.

It's all 24V which helps with "grunt" but replacement 24V electrodes for the Lectrasan cost almost the same as a complete 12V Lectrascan unit!

I always fill the system with fresh water when leaving the boat. This reduces the sulfur smell when next using the head.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:45 PM   #32
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Thanks Parks, good information,I`ve heard positive info about the Raritan here too, but the conversion kit was quoted around $550, and I can buy a whole new Jabsco for $426 locally.(The Jabsco conversion kit is $669 here!). Don`t forget the AUD tanked to 71c US, and then the Bank takes 5% conversion...Canada is looking good for next years overseas trip.
We use seawater. The only time ours smelt was when I pumped a cleaning solution into it before leaving the boat. Then it stank, stopped doing it, no smell.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:25 PM   #33
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Thanks.
I think I recall Peggy talking about the critters and smells.
Never found that with any of the manual seawater systems I've had and I wonder water temperature makes a difference.

Hawgwash--- The raw water plumbing for our forward head holds seawater in it if the intake seacock is open. If this sits for a few days the first pumps of the manual head release some very obnoxious smells. Once "new" raw water enters and fills the system the smell is gone.

We keep all the seacocks on our boat closed except the two engine intakes until we need to use them. Because of a plumbing setup that's more detailed than I want to describe here, if the forward head intake seacock is closed we can run freshwater through the intake plumbing and toilet by opening a tap in the forward head sink and operating the toilet. So we can eliminate that "first few pumps" stink by preventing salt water from sitting in the plumbing between uses of the boat because we can replace it with fresh water when the seacock is closed.

The point being that I don't know that temperature plays much of a role although I suppose in hotter climates the critters in the trapped salt water might die sooner, I don't know.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:40 PM   #34
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Thanks.
I think I recall Peggy talking about the critters and smells.
Never found that with any of the manual seawater systems I've had and I wonder water temperature makes a difference.
The issue is the organic material that is in the intake line. Without O2, live organic matter dies, the anaerobic bacteria then feeds on this organic material. One of the byproducts of this is a nasty sulfur smell. This smell is only an issue the first time the head is used after sitting a while. When the head is used daily, this isn't an issue. The longer the intake line, the worse the smell.

I don't think temperature makes a difference, but maybe the amount of organic matter in the water does? I have two heads, one with a long raw water intake and one with a short intake. We have very little of that odor with the short intake line. Your boat may have a short intake line.

I have a smaller boat than most with less tankage and smaller holding tanks. I don't want to use up my fresh water flushing.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:26 AM   #35
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Having a macerator seems to have certain advantages: no "logs" in the blackwater tank, allowing for more effective extraction at the pumpout.
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:42 AM   #36
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" no "logs" in the blackwater tank,"

There are no logs after going thru most duck bill - joker valves on the toilets discharge.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:48 AM   #37
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I have both system at same time on toilets. Both are electric, but I can quickly disconnect the electric system and use then manually, what is very convenient just in case of problem with electric.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:28 AM   #38
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" no "logs" in the blackwater tank,"

There are no logs after going thru most duck bill - joker valves on the toilets discharge.
Fred is right. If there are any, your joker/duckbill valve(s) is/are years overdue for replacement. And because solid waste is about 75% water, the pieces dissolve very quickly IN water.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:29 AM   #39
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After pricing new heads and replacement pump units, I decided to rebuild one of our 25 year old centrifugal discharge Raritan Crown units for a grand total of $126 (converted to fresh water flush years ago, so no noisy and power hungry intake pump). Ordered parts (seals, macerator, impeller, joker, etc) direct from Raritan...great service, knowledgeable tech reps, very fair prices. Inverted the bowl and soaked it in a shallow vat of white vinegar for two days then did the same for the pump assembly. Flushed out the gunk...cleaned up like new. Works like new. Relatively quiet without the raw water pump, and faster/more powerful pumping action. A real work horse. Good for another 25 years.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:58 AM   #40
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What is a manual head?
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