Tipping

[Seevee]

As for tipping, I can go hot and cold.

A few things.....

There are people that are worth min wage, and there are those that are worth less or more. The wage should have NOTHING to do with a tip. There are some that live quite well with minimum wage and there are some that live in poverty with triple that. Nothing to do with tipping.

A tip is "To Insure Promptness", not for just doing a job. And the wealth of the person tipping should also have no bearing on the tip.

In the restaurant business the tip is expected in this country (USA). Seems like many in the restaurant/bar business expect a tip regardless of service. I could argue against "automatic" tipping, but tip according to the service. I've tipped from nothing to 100% of the bill. Some of the places that I'm a regular, I'll tip 20 to 50%, which is a lot, but I get EXCELLENT service.

As for the dock hand.... same thing.... tip according to performance. I have no problem tipping a dock hand, but has nothing to do with the price of my boat. If I have a $20mm boat and put on $5K in gas, I'll have my own deck hands for sure. I've been to places with a kayak and tipped, and other places with a a $500K boat and the service wasn't worth a hill of beans, so no tip.

I could argue strongly, don't tip for substandard service and give them the message that's it's ok, but if service is excellent, let them know.... not only a tip, but a good thanks!

 

[stanfromhell]

What's the difference between a Canadian and a canoe?

A canoe tips.

And I do my best to uphold the tradition.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Not certain if it is still the case but the tipping of restaurant workers is somewhat due to them being paid below minimum wage with the expectation they will more than make it up with tips.

As far as I know marina workers get at least minimum wage.

You don't think restaurant workers get minimum wage? Really? Of course they do, everyone gets at least minimum wage, or there are laws being broken.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Tipping someone to take a line on a dock??? Hmm, not thinking so. Maybe if I send him up town for parts then sure. If you are standing on a dock and a boat comes in for a landing and the skipper says, hey can you grab a line? Of course. Would you expect a tip for doing so? Not.

 

[Donsan]

You don't think restaurant workers get minimum wage? Really? Of course they do, everyone gets at least minimum wage, or there are laws being broken.

Technically, you are correct. They are getting minimum wage EXCEPT minimum wage is $2.13 for "tipped employees". You will note $2.13 is well below the general minimum wage.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/q-a.htm

States and local governments can dictate a higher minimum wage for "tipped employees" which may be the case in your locale.

 

[rwidman]

What's the difference between a Canadian and a canoe?

A canoe tips.

And I do my best to uphold the tradition.

Yep, I've heard that one before.

 

[Peter B]

...If "gratuities" are automatically added to the bill, just to give the staff a decent wage, then in some ways customers are operating as a defacto Social Security net - a hidden tax?

Just so as not to disappoint Craig...the above is the main thing that bugs me about tipping...the other is I never have any cash in my wallet. We use cards for everything these days, and I can only see that trend continuing, especially now with tap and go, not to forget one's smart phone has (or can) become in effect your credit or debit card as well, so becoming even more things to more people.

This being the case, the US won't escape this trend either, so the cheapskates who are getting away with just paying employees a subsistence wage, hoping customers will top it up, better start wising up and paying realistically, or they will find it hard to get workers at all before too long.

I find it demeaning to have to offer someone extra to just do their job, and I'd find it demeaning to have to expect to receive it to make a liveable income as well. Mind you, we don't have dock hands anyway. We have to do everything ourselves at most marinas in Australia as far as I know. Probably because we are used to being so self-sufficient they would not have enough to do, but I could be wrong. Maybe large marinas with a lot of large and very expensive boats would have them. If so, they would be paid a decent wage, and I like that idea better.

 

[Islanddreamer]

As for us - I tip the person at the fuel dock $25 when I fill. He (he works alone) assists me tying up, is pleasant, provides a splash mat for my deck. I'm happy, and when I return he goes out of his way for me.

My kids all started in the food service business. If you are paying by credit card in a restaurant, tip in cash as the tips usually go into a pool for end of the night redistribution. If your server was good, tip them directly.

If your service was good, tip well for it.

mike

 

[rwidman]

....... My kids all started in the food service business. If you are paying by credit card in a restaurant, tip in cash as the tips usually go into a pool for end of the night redistribution. If your server was good, tip them directly.............

I think tips (cash or credit card) go into a common pool in most restaurants. That really defeats the supposed purpose of tipping because great service or lousy service, the server gets his/her share of the pool in the end. In many restaurants, one person takes your order and another brings your food and has to ask who gets what.

My intention in starting this post was simply to find out the normal and customary tipping (in the USA, I should have said that) at transient marinas and fuel docks. That is the question.


BTW: Claiming that you don't tip because you pay by credit card is a pretty sorry excuse. The dockhand can't buy lunch with that excuse.

I use credit cards as much as possible but I carry some cash as well and keep a stack of $5 bills on the boat for tipping.

And a couple rolls of quarters for the laundry machines. It's far from a cashless society, at least in the USA.

 

[Islanddreamer]

The dockhand can't buy lunch with that excuse.

Thank you for stating it this way. Strong agreement. Most of the fuel dock attendants don't have a boat like mine - even though it's not new or elaborate.

mike

 

[Donsan]

Before you tip anyone other than traditional "tipped employees", you should ask yourself the question, "Is it fair that the employer not compensate his workers such that the customer feels compelled to supplement their employment wages with a tip?"

What I had noticed at one marina is the same dock hand who was pumping fuel was also the guy who would be washing boats and having the marina bill the boat owner $80/hr for the service. If you paid the marina $80/hr to have your boat cleaned do you still believe the dock hand should get a tip for it?

 

[BandB]

Before you tip anyone other than traditional "tipped employees", you should ask yourself the question, "Is it fair that the employer not compensate his workers such that the customer feels compelled to supplement their employment wages with a tip?"

No, it's not fair. All the more reason for me to tip the employee.

 

[mramoo]

Before you tip anyone other than traditional "tipped employees", you should ask yourself the question, "Is it fair that the employer not compensate his workers such that the customer feels compelled to supplement their employment wages with a tip?"

What I had noticed at one marina is the same dock hand who was pumping fuel was also the guy who would be washing boats and having the marina bill the boat owner $80/hr for the service. If you paid the marina $80/hr to have your boat cleaned do you still believe the dock hand should get a tip for it?

Having been in a similar situation as a younger person, where my work was being billed to a customer at $75/hr, of which I would be receiving only $10/hr I would have gladly welcomed a tip.

 

[Capt Jack]

If you're on this site and own a boat, you're doing better than most in life. So many struggling just to survive and actually enjoying life is beyond their present reach.

and very well said - we should all count our blessings every day!

John

 

[BandB]

A basic Australia to US comparison.

Minimum wage in Australia, $17.70 per hour. Time over 38 hours or agreed time for part timer is $26.55. Time over 41 hours is $35.40. Work outside hours of 7 AM to 7 PM, $21.24. Non overtime work on Sunday $26.55. Now there are a lot of intricacies to the Australian system but also payment for vacations and public holidays. 13-14 public holidays and annual leave is a minimum of 4 weeks. Also paid sick leave.

In the US the minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, although some variations by state with some higher and some lower. $10.88 for time over 40 hours. No Sunday premium. Minimum for waiter or waitress is $2.13 per hour. Requirement for paid vacations-$0. Requirement for paid holidays-$0. Paid sick leave-$0.

So, yes, the dock hand at the marina may be making $17.70 per hour plus vacation, plus holidays, plus extra on Sunday, plus benefits in Australia so no tipping necessary. The dock hand in the US is likely making $7.25 and has no benefits.

The waitress in Australia making $17.70 per hour plus benefits. The waitress in the US making $2.13 per hour and no benefits, but expected to get enough tips so they make at least $7.25 per hour.

Now some states in the US are slightly better. Florida minimum wage is $8.05 vs $7.25. California is $10. On the other hand, Wyoming is $5.15. Oh, and Alabama has no minimum wage.

This is why tipping practices are much different.

 

[Aquafarm]

I have to add a personal note to this discussion.
My mother worked two sometimes three jobs to raise my brother and I. Most of the time those jobs were waitressing. I remember well the nights she would come home and count her tips...on the nights she did well, there was a visible look of relief on her face and we quickly bought groceries for the week. On the bad nights/weeks there was a lot of mayonnaise sandwiches and left over food brought home from catering gigs for those days.
So I know first hand that behind that waitress or dock hand there is a family...tipping for good service is the least I can do.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Technically, you are correct. They are getting minimum wage EXCEPT minimum wage is $2.13 for "tipped employees". You will note $2.13 is well below the general minimum wage.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/q-a.htm

States and local governments can dictate a higher minimum wage for "tipped employees" which may be the case in your locale.

BUT! If the low wage plus tips does not equal fed min wage, the employer must make up the difference, thus making the worker receive min wage either way. Not quite as simple as noted.

 

[78puget-trawler]

One thing folks seem to forget about min wage jobs. These jobs and wages were not meant to be family supporting jobs. All starter jobs are just that, starter jobs with starter wages. We all had to start someplace. I worked min wage jobs just like most of us did, so what. Its meant to be an incentive to do better and progress in your life and NOT supposed to be a job supporting wage that one can continually whine about and march in the streets about. If you don't like your min wage job, quit and find a better one. Or go to school and get educated, or join the military and learn a trade there. There are all sorts of options besides just working for min wage and spending half your time trying to lobby for higher min wages. If a worker shows interest in the job and takes some initiative, usually an employer will take note and move that person up with a wage increase. If not, take a hike and find something better. In my view when tips are expected as part of ones wages, its a mistake. Tips should only be given for really good service because when tips are expected, where is the incentive to do a good job? When giving tips, if you question at all whether a tip has been earned, it probably wasn't and no tip should be given.

 

[hmason]

I'm a tipper for restaurants and for dockhands etc. I can afford to tip them and it makes me feel good to let them know I appreciate their service.

What does bother me is tipping 20% or so for cocktails and wine that are overpriced to begin with. If I order a $30 bottle of wine and tip $6 just for the wine, does it take anymore work to serve a $70 bottle of wine? Today, many checks have "suggested tips" printed on the check and represents a percentage of the total check.

I'd be curious to know how many of us tip on the total. Do you tip on the total that includes the tax? Do you tip after deducting out the tax? Do you tip 20% on the expensive bottle of wine or the $15 cocktail?

 

[BandB]

I'm a tipper for restaurants and for dockhands etc. I can afford to tip them and it makes me feel good to let them know I appreciate their service.

What does bother me is tipping 20% or so for cocktails and wine that are overpriced to begin with. If I order a $30 bottle of wine and tip $6 just for the wine, does it take anymore work to serve a $70 bottle of wine? Today, many checks have "suggested tips" printed on the check and represents a percentage of the total check.

I'd be curious to know how many of us tip on the total. Do you tip on the total that includes the tax? Do you tip after deducting out the tax? Do you tip 20% on the expensive bottle of wine or the $15 cocktail?

The standard calculation is the total without tax.

If I can afford a $70 bottle of wine, then I can afford the $11-14 of tip is my philosophy. I figure those serving alcohol merit more based on the customers they have to put up with, of course not talking about you.

I tip 15% for completely uninspired service, 20% for good, 25% or more for excellent. If the service is unacceptable, I'll either speak to the server and discuss it with them or talk to the manager. In most cases I'll still then tip. Perhaps once out of every 500 times I will not tip and then they will clearly know why.

I also will tip more when the bill is less. We've gone into a nice restaurant after a show or concert just for dessert. My tip then was 100%. We took a table in her area that could have been for customers getting a full meal with wine. We generally do not purchase alcohol with our meals so I tip more to offset that in fancy restaurants.

 

[psneeld]

Tipping people outside the typical tipping jobs is like giving them a mini bonus all year long for doing better than average...at least if that is why you are tipping someone.


It feels good to me to give and receive tips for that reason.... so like the spirit of gift giving, for whatever holiday or special circumstance reason, I enjoy the concept (more than the mandatory built in tipping concept) and really don't care what is opinion....but I do care if violating significant regional customs or ettiquette. So that I try to be sensitive to.

 

[BandB]

Tipping people outside the typical tipping jobs is like giving them a mini bonus all year long for doing better than average...at least if that is why you are tipping someone.


It feels good to me to give and receive tips for that reason.... so like the spirit of gift giving, for whatever holiday or special circumstance reason, I enjoy the concept (more than the mandatory built in tipping concept) and really don't care what is opinion....but I do care if violating significant regional customs or ettiquette. So that I try to be sensitive to.

Wifey B: Random acts of kindness.

 

[BruceK]

I suspect the practice of tipping changed over time. What was a direct reward for special service has become a cost shifting method for employers, taking advantage of customers accustomed to tipping.
The employer will not pay employees properly, forcing them to play for tips. I`m not even sure all the tip money reaches the staff who encouraged it, and I don`t just mean kitchen staff, management may benefit too.
The practice is entrenched by underpaid staff using every available means fair and foul to enforce a 20% or so levy on customers,from charm and good service to abuse and future non service for non compliance.Judging from staff responses to my tipping practice, I`m not sure all US customers tip as handsomely as this thread suggests.
It`s a strange cost shifting system,fortunately we only have it here in a limited form, though the more upmarket the restaurant the more the pressure to tip.
Do staff include tips in their taxable income? Because that`s what it is, it`s their income, paid directly by customers, instead of via the conduit of the employer. If not, isn`t it a tax evasion system as well.

 

[78puget-trawler]

On our tax forms it states "list all wages, tips and benefits" or words to that effect. So yes supposed to list tips. How many actually do I have no idea. I have never worked in any job where tips were given or expected.

 

[psneeld]

I am no authority on tipping....but the vast majority of "expected tipping" is a tiny segment of the population that does receive tips here in the US.

It probably came about like any other custom or courtesy...if there wasn't a specific organized move to prohibit it, it is what it is...a kind act signifying gratitude (gratuity).

For the jobs that it became the norm.....well, I have no idea, maybe someone knows or is feeling up to internet searches or wikipedia. As I posted befire, all I care about tipping is that I can make someone feel gratified they were recognized for a job well done or not demean someone in a culture where tipping could.

 

[BandB]

Do staff include tips in their taxable income? Because that`s what it is, it`s their income, paid directly by customers, instead of via the conduit of the employer. If not, isn`t it a tax evasion system as well.

Yes, they do. The employer is required to collect tip information, even deducts taxes based on the wages plus tips, and must report total tips equal to at least 8% of total receipts. (Form 4070). The employee is then required to report on their return.

In addition, the IRS has software keys on waitresses and restaurants to make sure that compliance is achieved. While I'm sure some waiters and waitresses under report, just like others in other professions do, but it's watched pretty carefully. Also, with most people paying by credit card, the credit card tips are fully reported and any under reporting could only be on cash tips.

 

[BandB]

There are other controls too as many restaurants are enrolled in TRDA and have an agreement with the IRS as to standard tip rates. Non-restaurants are in a program called TRAC.

There is one other audit tool. Employer's furnish to the employee the amount of all tips on credit card sales. They also report to the employee the cash sales and have the employee report to them tips on cash sales. If your tips on credit card sales averaged 15% and you only reported 5% on cash sales that throws up a red flag.

The key areas for tip reporting and control are Food and Beverage and Hair and Nail salons. Tips to dock hands don't go through such a system. However, if one reported no tips and was audited, it would throw up a red flag.

Tip reporting is a burden on the employer as well.

I admit to prejudice since we own beauty salons, but that and personal services like massage are very personal services and may well be areas that tipping makes sense. Those workers are also paid well above minimum when employees. Often salons do not hire them but they are independent contractors. We do not engage in that practice.

However, as an employer, I'd like to eliminate tips, but changing from a standard industry practice is very difficult to do and risks alienating employees or candidates as well as customers. We actually did a survey and both were against a change. Most hairdressers also get Christmas presents from customers and those are reportable.

Changes may come. I remember when you tipped the bag boys at grocery stores for taking your groceries to the car and most don't allow that now.

 

[gaston]

BB I can understand tipping for a excellent happy ending

 

[BandB]

BB I can understand tipping for a excellent happy ending

Not about to get into the issue of tipping for those services or tips in a strip club. A whole separate world.

Question for Australians. Do you tip Pizza and food delivery?

 

[gaston]

Not about to get into the issue of tipping for those services or tips in a strip club. A whole separate world.

Question for Australians. Do you tip Pizza and food delivery?

No why ? I've already paid for the pizza & the delivery cost. If we start bad habitats here we will soon be paying $25 to pass a rope . When traveling through Asia I give "very generous" tips and don't begrudge so but hate been put on the spot in America sometimes been told what the tip should be .