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Old 11-01-2019, 12:18 PM   #1
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Time required to drop rudders / replace seals

Hey everyone

we are going on just over a year of ownership of our current boat - an 89 Tollycraft 53.

I am scheduling a haul out to get bottom paint done, and one of the items noted in survey to replace rudder seals that were weeping. Also pulling props for service at same time as rudders interfere w/ prop removal. I have contacted a yard to get this pulled and all done. most the quote seems very reasonable, but they list 14 hours to drop the rudders, replace seals and reinstall. this seems very excessive. am i missing something here? are they that time consuming? fairly good access inside to get to them. Maybe they have a high quote expecting one w/ issues getting to them... not sure. I just wanted to see what others who have done this before thought. thx!

Wade

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Old 11-01-2019, 12:26 PM   #2
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Of course they estimate high. There's ALWAYS something that won't budge, snaps, or otherwise buggers up. Carp is old and has been in a hostile environment for years. If they didn't estimate high they would eat it on a regular basis.

You're buying insurance. They may make the hours, they may lose a few if it gets real bad, or they may come out ahead once in a while. They do have to survive as a business.

If you want to gamble go by the hour. If it's good you win, if it's bad you lose. Either way THEY are covered.

Two days seems reasonable, assuming there's a tech that cares, doesn't rush and does things right. (Like walk back to the shop for some anti seize instead of going "ah screw it, can't see it from my house".)

Maybe you can beat them down.... then they'll have more incentive to make time... see previous paragraph.

The REAL question to be asked is.... Do you know this yard? Have you seen their work? Have you talked to people that confirm they care, do good work and don't screw you? Yes they charge but it will be done RIGHT?

Then leave it alone and pay them already.

Or do it yourself......
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:20 PM   #3
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I always feel like the estimated times are high. However, whatever I do myself always seems 3 times longer.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:21 PM   #4
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Unfortunately, it sounds reasonable to me. I wonder if you could ask the service manager if the cost will be less if the job goes quicker than quoted. At probably $135 per hour it might be a good investment to be on hand when they do it. I'm not talking about standing over their shoulder with a stopwatch but if you have a light cleaning project you could be working on at the same time it might keep the tech a little more honest.

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Old 11-01-2019, 01:33 PM   #5
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I can't comment on your rudder or rudder seal configuration, but I did mine 2 years ago, by myself, and had never done it before and the whole job didn't take more than 8 hours.


I also question that the props cannot be pulled without removing the rudders? Shafts maybe, but I find it hard to believe the props are within 6-8" of the rudders.


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Old 11-01-2019, 01:49 PM   #6
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If you indeed canít remove the props without dropping the rudders that is a very poor design. I would be surprised if Tolly did it like that. My rudders are plenty far enough to get the props off and they are offset to the side far enough in order to slide the shafts out without dropping the rudders. As to how long it would take to drop and reinstall them is beyond my experience.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:49 PM   #7
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thanks everyone

that's what i was looking for. i am sure its a job that can be done in less but they are just giving wiggle room.

yeah, i was surprised on the props as well, but they are that close. i have seen it myself. the port one can barely get removed, but the starboard one has like 1/32" of too little room. prop company is going to shave the hub down a little to prevent this in the future.

will move forward with getting it done!

thx

Wade
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:40 PM   #8
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Wade,
Just for your info, but remember different boat, and probably totally different setup.
Two years ago this spring (in 2018) I had the rudder pulled and new seal installed, new cutlass bearings, servicing of the PSS shaft seal (new bellows, etc), prop pulled for servicing, shaft pulled, and alignment checked and adjusted. If I remember correctly it only took the mechanic about 15-20 hours for the whole thing (not counting the time charged by the prop shop for adjusting the pitch).
On this job, everything went quite well with very little problems. Boat is a 2002.
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Old 11-01-2019, 02:57 PM   #9
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They could spend several hours on one stuck bolt! Not an excessive estimate at all. Most likely a tech and a helper. Or you could try it yourself.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:46 PM   #10
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Hi Tom, where did you have that work done?
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:56 PM   #11
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Hi Sue,
I had the work done at Newcastle Marina here in Nanaimo. Done by Toby at Extreme Fibreglass. I know, mechanical work by a Fibreglass company??
Toby is also a full fledged (highly recommended) heavy duty mechanic and boat tech.
Maybe we will get to meet this summer.
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:47 PM   #12
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Thanks, Tom! See you on the water!
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:53 PM   #13
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Are you sure they need to drop the rudders? Are you sure they aren’t just typical packing glands type seals? In a 1989 year vessel, I’d think they were typical packing gland seals. If so, that’s a dirt cheap and quick fix.
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