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Old 05-06-2016, 12:25 AM   #21
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I would suggest returning to the question of type boat for a bit before focusing in on the AT. You are talking Sabre and American Tug and these are two boats from entirely different segments of the boat world. The Sabre is a great choice if you want speed and I'm not talking 14 knot speed but a 40 bridge with 425 hp Zues cruises at 28 knots. You were also talking Sabre Express. Again far different than the AT or the Sabre Bridge and until I was more sure of express vs. bridge I would be careful. I think figuring out the type boat you want before which one still requires more time and work.
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:28 AM   #22
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I would suggest returning to the question of type boat for a bit before focusing in on the AT. You are talking Sabre and American Tug and these are two boats from entirely different segments of the boat world. The Sabre is a great choice if you want speed and I'm not talking 14 knot speed but a 40 bridge with 425 hp Zues cruises at 28 knots. You were also talking Sabre Express. Again far different than the AT or the Sabre Bridge and until I was more sure of express vs. bridge I would be careful. I think figuring out the type boat you want before which one still requires more time and work.
This is just the beginning...
Again the Sabre is on the list mostly because we like the company so much. We can see that in spite of our desire to stay in the Sabre family their designs are not likely to fit our cruising lifestyle...

We really don't see ourselves on an express type design. Sabre does have a 42 flybridge design but they are apparently about to discontinue the 42 and introduce a new 45. 45 feet is simply too large for our taste and I'm sure that boat will break the budget! We really want to keep whatever boat we buy at or under 40' in length. I'd say that the 3 tugs I listed earlier are about perfect in size. My in laws have cruised the past 12 or so years in a Willlard 40 trawler. Nice boat but I would object to the sailboat like cruising speeds. May as well keep the sailboat...

Even 10 knots is a big jump in speed from our 6kt cruise speed we have now and I will soon know exactly what it is like at 12 and 14 knots on the tug. Again, I will take video. As far as living space, the tugs are all palatial compared to our current boat. Tons of room and multiple living areas make for an appealing platform. I'd insist on the flybridge as we intend to do the waterway and can see that as a great addition...plus it's a great place to just hang and watch the goings on when in a place like Block Island.

We will know more after a couple of sea trials certainly and the likely next step would be to charter a boat, something we never do as we spend a lot of time on our own boat...

Bruce
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Old 05-06-2016, 06:04 AM   #23
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Sabre does have a 42 flybridge design but they are apparently about to discontinue the 42 and introduce a new 45. 45 feet is simply too large for our taste and I'm sure that boat will break the budget!

So call Sabre, and offer to buy their last 42.



I know if I were to win the lottery, their flybridge 54 would be one of the top 3 production boats on my list to look at. It might even become the top 1 boat on that list, if they would replace the ladder with a staircase.


In any case, I know you said you wanted to stay at 40' or below, but I think you'd find that 42' is not gonna feel palacial after about the first month.


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Old 05-06-2016, 06:53 AM   #24
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So call Sabre, and offer to buy their last 42.



I know if I were to win the lottery, their flybridge 54 would be one of the top 3 production boats on my list to look at. It might even become the top 1 boat on that list, if they would replace the ladder with a staircase.


In any case, I know you said you wanted to stay at 40' or below, but I think you'd find that 42' is not gonna feel palacial after about the first month.


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Believe me, we have concidered it!

A couple of issues with this. First of all, we went aboard a 2 year old 42 Sabre express last week and while a beautiful boat (essentially the same interior layout as the flybridge) we found some features lacking for our use. First of all is the galley. There is literally less dish and food storage than in our 38' sailboat!
That galley is not a cooks galley and the electric cooktop thing...
We cook and we bake, we love it. That is not something we want to give up on a boat.
We found that the 38 had far more storage in the galley than the 42 and in fact liked the interior of the 38 better...even though it still had the electric cook top. There is simply not enough outside living space.

The second issue is that some of our favorite haunts are size restricted. The inner harbor floats in Camden ME for example are restricted to 40'. We love it there!

Our own slip (a condo type slip) has a size restriction of 47' overall. The Sabre 42 would make it but just...

Then there is the reality of boat maintenance. I do my own maintenance. I wash and wax, I paint bottoms, I like controlling the process and outcome of the job and hey, I'm good! Smaller is better in this case!

Finally, we spend months at a time on a 38' sailboat. Any powerboat of similar length will offer more room. We also spend months each winter "cruising" in a 16' Airstream Bambi. We are good at doing small spaces!

In this boat, we are looking for more comfort, more speed and the ability to extend the season without having to freeze in the cockpit when the weather turns.

Again, if Sabre did a 38 to 40' FB and they would install a propane style oven with burners...but they do not. It clearly is not their market. So we still consider the 38 express as it is a nice boat but, it's easier to see ourselves in a tug.

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Old 05-06-2016, 10:30 AM   #25
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Looking forward to your fussy list on the AT.
I keep asking myself; "how come so few have command bridges?"
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:54 AM   #26
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Looking forward to your fussy list on the AT.
I keep asking myself; "how come so few have command bridges?"
I wonder why too!
Maybe cost, or do people just not use them?
I think it would be great to see what's going on from up there...
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:58 AM   #27
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I wonder why too!
Maybe cost, or do people just not use them?
Or maybe it's a metronome?
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Old 05-06-2016, 04:24 PM   #28
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Bruce, if I was looking at new boats in the general "go slow" category, I would look at the NT and AT, both great boats. I would also suggest you look at the North Pacific and Helmsman yachts as well. Different designs but similar concept.

You have already identified that you want a good galley. What about accommodations? One cabin or two? Two heads or one? It is hard for us to know how much $$$ plays into the equation. For me, new was never an option and used ATs were out of my price range. New, both the AT and NT are very nice if they check all the boxes. Both the North Pacific and Helmsman are very nice new and will be less expensive.

I would reiterate what BandB said, think a lot about speed. Look at your cruising grounds and do the math on the length of your legs. The prior owner of my boat normally cruised at 10 knots. I run it at 7 because I am cheap and it is much quieter than at 10 knots. A SD boat like all of those I mentioned can go faster is needed, but I don't know any owners who normally run them at that speed. Not because they can't, but because it isn't as pleasant.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:38 AM   #29
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Hello Bruce, a fellow forum member brought your post to my attention. First, I would like to introduce myself. I am the Director of sales at Nordic Tugs, and wish to apologize to you for not receiving a return phone call. We have been building quality trawlers for 36 years, and strive to fulfill dreams for our owners. Please feel free to call me personally @ 425-508-0802. It would be my pleasure to answer your questions or give you a tour of our facility at your convenience. If you have the time, we could go for a boat ride, and see why Nordic Tugs maintains the highest level of loyalty from our owners, and continues to stand the test of time. Sincerely, Cory Gracey.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:44 AM   #30
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Are these boats really that noisy??? I travel at 17 knots. I can barely hear the engines....just enough to manually sync them. I would say traveling at planing speeds does have its limit. I could easily do 12....14 hour days at 6.5 knots. You just don't have to pay that much attention so your mental awareness is not taxed as heavily. At higher speeds you have to pay attention. Shit can go wrong...equipment can get destroyed...and people can get hurt. So you end up feeling tired at about the 6 hour point. In the end, I travel the same distance at 17 knots as I did at 7. I just do it more quickly and I sleep in and "take my time".

Another thing you have to consider is you will always have to have your head on a swivel and slow down for slower boats or kayakers or fishermen. It can get frustrating but you gotta do it. If you have been a sailboater then you have been on the receiving end of a powerboat wake!!! Believe it or not, it is rewarding to be a proper and courteous powerboater. Slower boats definitely take notice. And besides, someone could get hurt. I have a friend that travels at 13 knots and doesn't throw a big enough wake to piss anyone off. He does not slow down....I do. And he always manages to keep up with me. My point being, your average speed will be diminished by having to slow down! So plan/buy accordingly.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:39 AM   #31
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Are these boats really that noisy??? I travel at 17 knots. I can barely hear the engines....just enough to manually sync them. I would say traveling at planing speeds does have its limit. I could easily do 12....14 hour days at 6.5 knots. You just don't have to pay that much attention so your mental awareness is not taxed as heavily. At higher speeds you have to pay attention. Shit can go wrong...equipment can get destroyed...and people can get hurt. So you end up feeling tired at about the 6 hour point. In the end, I travel the same distance at 17 knots as I did at 7. I just do it more quickly and I sleep in and "take my time".

.
As to the noise, I think it varies widely by boat and engine combination. Some might surprise as well. I have found sound to be a real factor in enjoyment and the most overlooked attribute at time of purchase. Sometimes you can do some additional soundproofing. When we were looking, we were shocked at some of the differences and how loud some boats that you didn't expect to be were. Also, the huge variations in engines with the worst being CAT.

As to traveling at the higher speed, you just made our point of speed. Ultimately, we arrive sooner and less tired. As to the effort and attention required at higher speed, we travel outside most of our long runs so it's not really a factor. Also, it's a matter of what one is use to. Now, traveling at speed in the ICW does have all the factors you described. The other side though is traveling at 7 knots tends to lull some to sleep (not literally) and into mistakes of inattention.

Now, we're in the Erie canal at the moment and not so into speed but still comfortable at a bit faster. (We're in one of the last sections without a limit). Still it was fun getting in the RIB yesterday and sightseeing then coming back from our far point at 40 knots.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:08 PM   #32
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Decision Process

Bruce, I just discovered this thread and believe we are similar journeys though we may be slightly ahead of you in that we selected the boat that fits our needs and started the build process. Others have already provided some great points including taking your time and do your research.

I do not wish to influence your decision (only you and your family know which boat is best for your future use) but thought you may enjoy reading our thread and the decision process we used to select our next boat. Like you we also struggled with changing course by moving from one style of boat to another. Its not an easy decision and takes a little soul searching to get it right.

Our story and "decision process" is posted on TF under Custom builds / Retro-fits, Contract Signed New build underway. Best of luck with your search and feel free to contact me directly if you should have any questions.

John T.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:40 PM   #33
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Bruce

Stick to your guns. Whether AT or NT, your desire for the no strain 12-14 or so knot cruise speed capability is not supplied by other vessels being mentioned. A trip to the LaConnor and Burlington factories will answer a lot of questions.

I have one, but if you can stay away from Chinese built you are not hurting yourself. And there is no Chinese built tug design vessel that can compete with the AT/NT cruise speed that I am aware of. The resale on ATs and NTs is exceptional, for a boat that is.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:46 PM   #34
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Bruce

Stick to your guns. Whether AT or NT, your desire for the no strain 12-14 or so knot cruise speed capability is not supplied by other vessels being mentioned. A trip to the LaConnor and Burlington factories will answer a lot of questions.

I have one, but if you can stay away from Chinese built you are not hurting yourself. And there is no Chinese built tug design vessel that can compete with the AT/NT cruise speed that I am aware of. The resale on ATs and NTs is exceptional, for a boat that is.
Sunchaser, with that kind of sage advice, you must be a centenarian.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:21 PM   #35
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Bruce, I just discovered this thread and believe we are similar journeys though we may be slightly ahead of you in that we selected the boat that fits our needs and started the build process. Others have already provided some great points including taking your time and do your research.

I do not wish to influence your decision (only you and your family know which boat is best for your future use) but thought you may enjoy reading our thread and the decision process we used to select our next boat. Like you we also struggled with changing course by moving from one style of boat to another. Its not an easy decision and takes a little soul searching to get it right.

Our story and "decision process" is posted on TF under Custom builds / Retro-fits, Contract Signed New build underway. Best of luck with your search and feel free to contact me directly if you should have any questions.

John T.
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Helmsman 38E - Under construction
John,
Someone here suggested that I read that thread earlier and I've been plugging away at it. Yes there are parallels between us that I keep finding as I read!
Thanks for the offer of direct contact. I believe I may do exactly that, especially as we zero in on features and options. I promise that I will do my best not to be a bother!
Thanks again,
Bruce
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:59 PM   #36
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Looking forward to your fussy list on the AT.
I keep asking myself; "how come so few have command bridges?"
Hawg, if by command bridges you mean flybridge on top, maybe its because flybridges on a boat already with a pilothouse, which all the tugs essentially have, looks like an unnecessary added-on pimple on a pumpkin..?
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Old 05-07-2016, 09:42 PM   #37
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One of the joys of a six-knot boat is that one hardly ever needs to slow down except in the marina.
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Old 05-08-2016, 08:16 AM   #38
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Hawg, if by command bridges you mean flybridge on top, maybe its because flybridges on a boat already with a pilothouse, which all the tugs essentially have, looks like an unnecessary added-on pimple on a pumpkin..?
I'm beginning to see the obvious...not everyone agrees on this one.
Well, at least my wife and I are in 100% agreement on this one, no arguing between us!

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Old 05-08-2016, 08:19 AM   #39
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One of the joys of a six-knot boat is that one hardly ever needs to slow down except in the marina.
If we liked traveling at 6 knots we'd stay with our sailboat! At least that has a nifty roll stabilizer built in!

No kidding, my in laws have been cruising on a Willard 40 for the past 12 years or so and although it is a lovely boat that they adore, it is not what we want...

Can't wait to get out on the 395 this Wednesday!

Counting the days, Bruce
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:15 AM   #40
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looks like an unnecessary added-on pimple on a pumpkin..?
Tony Fleming probably agrees with you.
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