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Old 07-16-2010, 10:32 AM   #21
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Tide grid's

Divers cost $180.00.
The harbor charges a buck a foot.
Plus not many divers around that will dive in the harbor. Or any divers at all for that matter.
There is only 4 marinas that can be accessed by road. Whittier, Valdez, Seward and Homer all are at least 200 miles apart. Anchorage doesn't have a Marina. Valdez is 8 hours by road
Seward is 2 hours from Whittier. Homer is 4 hours.

Oil, (Messes with the dry suit a must have in Alaskan waters) Stray current, sewage. So it's the Tide grid. I could have her hauled for about $600.00
Call me cheep.**
Last year I floated her in a shallow bay let the tide go out and she just layed on her side. That worked but I couldn't get to the zincs on the bilge keels on the side she lay on. Plus that takes a whole weekend to get to where the bay is and back. The grid only take high to high.

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Friday 16th of July 2010 11:27:16 AM
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:29 AM   #22
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RE: Tide grid's

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FF wrote:

It's easy to pooh-pooh regulations when all they do from your point of view is make your life seem harder. But if you put yourself in the shoes of the people the reguations are intended to help, the picture changes a bit.

So you are in favor of Mrs Obummer deciding on your DIET?
You have to apply regulations with common sense.* Buying into every regulation or proposed regulation just because someone higher up the ladder than you thought of it is as senseless as having no reguations at all.* In the case of a lot of the environmental regulations, they make sense because what happens without them--- people acting out of greed and water quality, errosion, air pollution, etc. be damned-- is very obviously detrimental.

Regulations to control what we do simply for the sake of controlling us, or to trying to impose a "mother knows best" rule on people who can make their own choices--- whether or not to eat a Big Mac, for example--- are another matter.

I suppose one could step WAY back and look at the really big picture and make the case that eating junk food or low-nutrition food causes an increase in health problems which in turn causes private and government health care costs to go up which hits all of us in the pocket book, contributes to the national debt, etc.

But I think that's a harder or at least less obvious*connection to make than the one where dumping chemicals and copper paint and oil and other crap into the water kills the fish and shellfish and puts the people who's living depends on them out of work.

*
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:33 AM   #23
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RE: Tide grid's

I'm in Alaska now. the only grid I've seen in use is at Juneau, even though they are all over the place.* The commercial guys need to do a more time intensive effort so use the yards. The notion that AK has sold out more than any other state is just a political view and statement. The fight for funds happens in every state. Name me a state and I will give you a bunch of pandering politicos. I've had the opportunity to spend time with some people who take commerical fishing very seriously and clearly understand the relationship between overfishing, the environment and sustainable profits. - this trip has been a real eye opener in that respect. I've yet to see where the cruise ships are controlling the locals. just the reverse in fact with the various Indian groups doing quite well.

Bottom line, the locals as usual know a lot more about what is going here than a*bunch of eastern liberals.

So back to the grids, use them Dude and work fast!
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:47 AM   #24
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Tide grid's

Quote:
sunchaser wrote:

Bottom line, the locals as usual know a lot more about what is going here than a*bunch of eastern liberals.
Anyone read any comments on this topic from "eastern liberals"?


-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 17th of July 2010 11:48:34 AM
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:31 PM   #25
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RE: Tide grid's

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Bottom line, the locals as usual know a lot more about what is going here than a*bunch of eastern liberals.
I don't argue with the notion that locals generally know more about what's going on in their own neighborhoods than people outside the areas, but I'm curious as to how eastern liberals are different than Washington (state) liberals, Calfornia liberals, or Hawaii liberals.

And how do you define "eastern?"* Europe is east of us, so are we talking about German liberals, French liberals, and British liberals?*** Or are you using "eastern" in its more global nature, so you're talking about Indian (from India) liberals, Pakistani liberals, and Sri Lankan liberals.* And it that is what you mean, is it proper to exclude Chinese liberals, Japanese liberals, and Korean liberals from the "eastern" liberal crowd?

So you need to be a more specific when you compare people in Alaska to "eastern" liberals because we might draw the wrong conclusions.* Are you denigrating the people in Boston, the people in Stoke-on-Trent, the people in Mumbai, or the people in Xiamen?

See the problem?

What is it George Bernard Shaw said--- "The single greatest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place."* So be clear in your meaning.



*
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:24 PM   #26
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RE: Tide grid's

You've got a point there, Marin. When I was working on processors in the Bering Sea and Bristol Bay and on tugs and coastal freighters in the Aleutians, we sure got tired of those eastern liberals from Prince William Sound and Southeast butting in.

Hey Skipperdude, are you one of those "easten liberals" because you are east of
Anchorage and Dutch or are you OK because you're west of Juneau? Whenever I was in Sitka the locals sure didn't like the libs from Ketchikan either ... it's getting so you don't know whether to box the compass or a liberal tree hugger.

So Sunchaser, how long have you been subsistence fishing and cashing your permanent fund check?
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:07 PM   #27
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RE: Tide grid's

Eastern liberals are those who*eat quiche and enjoy it. God you liberals are sensitive!
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:34 PM   #28
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I love quiche.

Some of the best I've ever had was made with salmon netted only minutes before in Bristol Bay. The native Alaskan liberal cooks (from SE Alaska though) on the Alaska ferries also made some pretty darn good quiche too. They made it with local seafood and Matanuska Valley cheese.

While you are playing sailorman up there you should ask Sarah for her rhubarb moose quiche recipe.





-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 17th of July 2010 07:51:18 PM
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:16 PM   #29
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RE: Tide grid's

RickI try to convince myself that all of us who enjoy this special resource are of the same mind when it comes to protecting that which we love. But... you remind me that I am as always naive. So many of my avid fishermen friends are also fish hogs, taking more than their share, just because they can. It's the same old mindset that my little transgression is nothing in the big picture. Thanks for the reminder Rick.
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:14 AM   #30
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RE: Tide grid's

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*

Eastern liberals are those who*eat quiche and enjoy it. God you liberals are sensitive!

*
Okay, that's cool.* But what defines a western liberal?

*
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:41 AM   #31
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Carey wrote:So many of my avid fishermen friends are also fish hogs, taking more than their share, just because they can.
Learned something new last month when we were halibut fishing up the north end of Vancouver Island.* The limit in BC is one per day with two in possessession.* When we came in with our first fish, a 40+ pounder, we were met at the dock by a girl from Canadian fisheries.* She had just graduated from college and was working for the fisheries department full time and was going to go on to get her advanced degree in whatever you study to know all about fish and marine life.* She was not enforcing licenses, she was collecting data on what was caught each day.

She asked us if we'd caught anything and I said yes.* She asked how big and I said, "I don't know, 60 pounds maybe."* Hey, it felt likd 60 pounds hauling it into the boat.* She asked, "Did you let it go?"* I looked at her like she was nuts and said, "No."

She kinc of winced and said, "Well, it's totally up to the fisherman but we encourage people to let halibut that are bigger than 60 or 70 pounds go."* The reason, she explained, is that all halibut that are this size and larger are females and each one carries 300,000 to 500,000 eggs.

As it turned out this first fish was only a bit over 40 pounds.* But the second one the next day was over 60.* The girl was there again but she didn't give us the "let them go" lecture again.* Actually, another group of fishermen came in the same time we did, and they had caught a 240 poiund halibut.* The father of the fellow that caught it runs a fishing resort near where we were and he told us that when they knew thay had a big one on (it took an hour to get it to the boat) they had this big debate--- should we do what we tell our guests to do and let it go or keep it?* WHen they got it up and saw how big it was they practiced what they preach and let it go.

So we all had an interesting discussion about halibut preservation while all of us were cleaning our fish at the cleaning station on the dock.* Having caught two, I had two in possession so I was done halibut fishing for this trip.* We could have bought a license for my wife and then caught two more but the two we got will last us for a long time and getting more would have just been cathing them for the sake of catching them.

A co-worker who has done a lot of halibut fishing in Alaska in Cook Inlet told me that a friend of his who is a guide there has told him that whle there are planety of halibut around up there they are mostly small ones.* The huge monsters that used to be common have been pretty much fished out.

So as much as an ego trip as it is to come in with a 80 or 120 or 200 pound fish we'll be letting them go from here on (assuming we actually catch any that big).

Incidentally, while the fisheries girl was encouraging people to let anyting over 60 or 70 pounds go, the official recommendation from Canada fisheries is anything over 90 pounds (my wife later read the notice in the office of where we were statying).

In case anyone is wondering how you can know the weight without landing the fish, there is a chart that shows lengths in inches and the corresponding average weights.* Halibut will often lie very docile next to the boat when you bring them up unless you touch them or pull their heads out of the water.* So it's not hard to get an accurate measurment of the fish while it's in the water beside you.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 18th of July 2010 01:43:56 AM
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:02 AM   #32
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RE: Tide grid's

When I was on coastal freighters we used to anchor for days sometimes waiting for a processer vessel to accumulate enough product (salmon) to load and we would take the skiff out sport fishing. We would go for the 10 pound "chickens" as the best eating. Between the crabs, oysters, clams, salmon, halibut, and fresh berries it was a gourmet's table in those little coves and remote anchorages.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:42 AM   #33
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RE: Tide grid's

It seems Phill / Fill was the only one to provide any info on the original question, and he is correct in his advice.* There are several points to keep in mind when using the grid.** Make sure the prop (s) and rudder (s) are positioned between the timbers, and make sure the boat leans in slightly to the pilings.* I've been on boats that will fill several 55 gallon drums with water to provide the needed list. Pumping fuel to one side or the other will work too.* Make sure when running lines to the piles that they can't hang up on the way down or up.* Be sure to ride the boat all the way to touch down, rather than just tieing it off and coming back in five or six hours.* Once the boat has landed, add additional lines to the piles to secure it, then enjoy your almost free haul out while doing what you can to minimize your impact.* ....................Arctic Traveller
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:03 PM   #34
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RE: Tide grid's

When reading the link Rick points us to, one needs to consider the source.* First, I am in no way saying that the cruise ships should be able to polute at will, or don't need regulation.* By way of background, I have some experience with polution regulations, having been the environmental manager at a California shipyard for many years.* The problem with the waste water regulations placed on the cruise ships was that the best available current technology was unable to meet the standards.* The limits were lower than for anyone else, including city waste water plants.* My understanding was that there was no reasonable way to meet the discharge standard despite using the best equipment currently available.* Again, my understanding was that the standard was lowered to what is acheaveable with the current technology with the provision that as new technology becomes available the standard will be revised.*

Secondly, Mr Choen was removed from the states waste water panel not because he wrote the unatainable regulations, but instead because he was exposed as having no professional academic scientific background.* If anyone doubts this, I can provide the references, as I worked a couple months ago for a captain who made the discovery, and exposed his lack of background.

Having said all that, I'm no cruise ship polution supporter. Having to live with belching generator smoke all summer isn't something anyone should have to do, but the process of regulation needs to be fair to all concerned.* And yes, I do get a portion of my income each year from the cruise ship industry, but I still believe we can all reduce our impact on the planet. Ok, I'm ready, fire away.....................Arctic Traveller

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Old 07-18-2010, 12:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Arctic Traveller wrote:

It seems Phill / Fill was the only one to provide any info on the original question
Considering SD's boat is single screw ex-fishboat, as long as it doesn't lean out from the pilings it doesn't matter where the screw or rudder sits. The screw is above the shoe and the shoe sits on the cross beams just like the keel. If the grid was covered by a huge steel plate or plywood sheeting it would work just the same.

Whatever it takes to keep it leaning toward the piles depends on the boat, the dock, and the owner's personal choice and what he decides after looking at his grid before using it. Everything else is chit chat.


-- Edited by RickB on Sunday 18th of July 2010 12:21:56 PM
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:40 PM   #36
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RE: Tide grid's

Quote:
RickB wrote:


Considering SD's boat is single screw ex-fishboat, as long as it doesn't lean out from the pilings it doesn't matter where the screw or rudder sits. The screw is above the shoe and the shoe sits on the cross beams just like the keel. If the grid was covered by a huge steel plate or plywood sheeting it would work just the same.
Your quite correct, having a single screw makes the process much easier, but having no idea if SD's boat was single or twin, I tried to cover all the bases.* With a little care, all should go well, but I saw a large fishing boat fall over on the grid last year.* Well, actually I saw it after it had fallen or laid over.* It was totally on it's side, and they brought in a huge fork lift used to move containers at first, but then realized the only way to save it was to get a crane.* It ended well, if not very expensively.* I later heard that the boat was left to settle on it's own, and when the owner returned, it had leaned the wrong way and fallen over.........................Arctic Traveller
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Arctic Traveller wrote:

And yes, I do get a portion of my income each year from the cruise ship industry, but I still believe we can all reduce our impact on the planet. Ok, I'm ready, fire away.....................Arctic Traveller

*
Not much there to argue about. There is enough truth on both "sides" to keep the fires stoked forever. Aside from more heat than light, the process has improved the worst of things and growth has led to other issues.

Having watched the growth of commercial cruising in SE over the years, I have fewer and fewer issues with the technology and the culture onboard those vessels with regard to environmental* safeguards. The pendulum has swung wide the other direction and is staying there.

What has not changed, and is probably worse is the economic and social impact of the ports the ships visit. Large parts of Ketchikan, Juneau, and to a lesser degree, Skagway have become Disneyesque caricatures of a cruise director's imaginary Alaskan frontier town. The cruise lines own the souvenier shops lining the waterfront that sell the same junk jewelry they sell in the same store in the Caribbean when the ships move down there for the season. The profits sail away with the ships and the seasonal help goes back on unemployment. It is creepy to see.

There are equally good arguments to be made that the net result has been positive but only time will tell. Ketchikan and Sitka did well off the Japanese lumber market while it lasted but they did so at the cost of destroying a lot of the hillsides that cannot be seen from the deck of a cruise ship or transient yacht.

" I later heard that the boat was left to settle on it's own ..."
Well, Duh!

*


-- Edited by RickB on Sunday 18th of July 2010 05:14:35 PM
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:07 PM   #38
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RE: Tide grid's

High tide was at 6:11 am saturday morning At about 6:30 I pulled up to the grid and just tied off to the pilings it took about 15 minits before I felt bottom. She settled down nice and straight.
Being over cautious I used every line on the boat from every cleat to make her fast.
Then I made a Pot of coffee and waited.
Takes the tide a long time to drop 6 feet.
I had More help and advice than you could imagine.
At the time tons of trailer boats were putting in at the ramp every one wanted to know if I had hit something or why I was on the grid.
Nope just changing the zincs. That is all I did no scraping no sanding. All I needed was a screw driver and 7/16 wrench. Oh yeah a 3/4" for the divers dream took about a half an hour.
Then I made lunch and sat around and watched all the trailer boats launch .
Commical how many had something go wrong. Dogs would be barking and people scrambling around to fix what ever problem they had.
I even had to fend one guy off of the grid.
At about 4:30 she floated I untied and went back to my slip. I did have time to tie a nice turks head to the ships wheel and re-rig all my shrimp gear. Bent my fid working a splice onto my anchor chain. All in all a pretty boring day .
What was I woried about?
Now. If you need to use a Tide Grid and have access to one. Need any advise? I'm your guy

SD
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:16 PM   #39
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RE: Tide grid's

Sounds like my kinda day!
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:33 PM   #40
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RE: Tide grid's

Hanging around a boat ramp can be very entertaining, I saw one guy launch his boat with trailer attached. The trailer came loose from the ball hitch, no safety chain of course.
Lots of boats in with drain plug out but then I've done that too, no big problem, but some folks just seem to go beserke.
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