Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-20-2019, 07:32 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
JustBob's Avatar
 
City: Bainbridge Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mahalo
Vessel Model: 2018 Hampton Endurance 658
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 455
Three million gallons of raw sewage spilled in Seattle

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...each-closures/

How long would it take for recreational boaters to pump over that much? Like 100 years?

"Government officials investigating...."

"What happened, Ernie?" "Oh, you know, the power went out, so it all just goes into the sound...."

Maybe the gubmint should have spent their time and money insuring the safety of treatment plants instead of recreational boating.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
JustBob
www.mvmahalo.com
JustBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 08:09 AM   #2
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,736
I've always considered it to be the ultimate irony that the very DAY Rhode Island's statewide NDZ law went into effect, a similar spill from a sewage treatment plant in Providence closed all the beaches and shellfish beds at that end of Narraganset Bay for a week!


--Peggie
__________________

__________________
© 2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 08:42 AM   #3
Member
 
City: Kent island
Country: Usa
Vessel Name: Meandering Mermaid
Vessel Model: Mainship 400
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 17
A couple weeks ago same thing, Baltimore pumped 1.5 million gallons in to the Jones falls which flows into the Patapsco then the Chesapeake bay because of a storm. I’m Kent island wondered how long it would take to get here.
Thinback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:02 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,177
Recreational boaters would never be able to pump anything but a small fraction of that. Oppressive double standards at play, boaters pay.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:05 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,177
Flesh eating necrotizing fasciitis, no doubt to me, the chance of catching that is made worse by these sewage spills which hurt your health, weakening you from other infections you can pick up.

In Hampton, VA they had a multi million gallon ongoing spill they knew nothing about for several years dumping sewage into the Back River years ago. And when the news finally reported about the spill, nothing further was said. I used to have the boat in that river, and it was pretty dead, but had lots of green grass.

The whole Chesapeake though is more polluted from run off from pig farms, and agriculture and residential yards than anything boaters could ever do even if the boaters just dumped it all into the bay.

You could also tell how dead it was from the smell and look of the bottom muck coming up on the anchor.
And hypoxic zones just kill or drive away fish and crabs. there is nothing for them to eat
But if you stop the sewage coming in, it will clean itself up eventually. I wonder how long that takes.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:14 AM   #6
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,736
Sewage treatment plant spills are common in Baltimore every time there's a heavy rain...although a lot of 'em aren't really spills. They release partially treated sewage to prevent spills of totally UNtreated sewage.


Most people don't know that about 100 east coast municipal sewage treatment plants have been operating for several decades under a waiver from EPA because their systems are so old and/or have become inadequate as population has increased to meet the required standards and they can't afford to replace/upgrade them.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:37 AM   #7
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,156
So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:38 AM   #8
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,873
Too many people.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 10:04 AM   #9
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Too many people.
Bingo....
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 10:38 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Baltimore, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starshine
Vessel Model: 1989 Bayliner 3288
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?


No George, the complaint is NDZs where we can’t discharge treated waste while the municipalities dump millions of gallons of UNTREATED waste on a regular basis.

John
johnrupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 10:58 AM   #11
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,177
Once you get older you may realize many things people promote as good are simply frauds. NDZ is one, another is recycling. Most people put things in the recycling bin thinking they get recycled, but not anymore. And honestly what did China actually do with it?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/c...ic-papers.html
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 10:58 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
fractalphreak's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Northwest Dream
Vessel Model: Davis Vashon 42 Trawler (Defever design)
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrupp View Post
No George, the complaint is NDZs where we can’t discharge treated waste while the municipalities dump millions of gallons of UNTREATED waste on a regular basis.

John
With little comment from the state Dept. of Ecology or outrage from our environmental friends. If the city/county sewage systems are operating with so little redundancy for failure, clearly there is no oversight or regulation of their capacity to operate in failure modes. One would think that backup generators, surge holding capacity, etc would be a design requirement. This week is not the first time. I'm outraged, especially because of the proven negative effects this raw sewage has on Chinook salmon population in Puget Sound where I live.

I don't see the flotilla of kayaks out there protesting the release!?! How come?

__________________
"There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently."
fractalphreak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 11:10 AM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar


 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
I've always considered it to be the ultimate irony that the very DAY Rhode Island's statewide NDZ law went into effect, a similar spill from a sewage treatment plant in Providence closed all the beaches and shellfish beds at that end of Narraganset Bay for a week!


--Peggie
Peggie

I am sure you have read the test reports from the EPA regarding treatment systems.

Would you care to comment on them?

The EPA testing was used as a basis for Washington States recent NDZ, and my layman reading of the report showed the electroscan performing very well, but not the “thermopure” system.

BTW I am a happy long term electroscan, and hold n treat owner.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.boatparts4less.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 12:17 PM   #14
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?

No...and you know that's not what we're saying. But there's NO valid reason, environmental or otherwise, for at least 90% of the NDZs when the discharge from USCG certified onboard treatment devices is cleaner than the waters it's going into, even when there hasn't been a sewage plant spill.



--Peggie
__________________
© 2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 12:30 PM   #15
Guru
 
Group9's Avatar
 
City: Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, (or where the anchor drops)
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1973 42 Bertram MY
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
So you guys are saying that boaters shouldn't be banned from pumping raw sewage into protected waters?
I think we are saying that the fact that boaters are banned from dumping thousands of gallons of raw sewage into waters is very often superseded by government agencies dumping millions of gallons of sewage into the very same waters.

We have a similar situation with dolphins here (Mississippi gulf coast). Kill a dolphin down here, and you will wish you had killed a person instead. However a few weeks ago, the Corp of Engineers opened the Bonet Career (sic- spell check won't let me spell it correctly, I give up) spillway, dumping billions of gallons of fresh, pesticide and fertilizer laden water into the Mississippi sound to save houses from flooding, killing over two hundred dolphins.

Not saying it's right to kill a dolphin or to dump raw sewage. It isn't. Just saying that government is often the worst violator there is of marine and sanitation laws.

Don't get mad at the people talking about it. Get mad at the people doing it.
__________________
Living life at one quarter speed.
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 12:54 PM   #16
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Peggie
I am sure you have read the test reports from the EPA regarding treatment systems. Would you care to comment on them?
The EPA testing was used as a basis for Washington States recent NDZ, and my layman reading of the report showed the electroscan performing very well, but not the “thermopure” system.
BTW I am a happy long term electroscan, and hold n treat owner.
I've seen several reports over the years, but I don't know which one you're referring to, so I don't know if I've seen that one. If you have a copy, I'd appreciate your sending me one...I can send you my email address via PM.

The major flaw in most of the reports is that they use the standard set forth in the CFR--a max bacteria count of 1000/100 ml--when the ACTUAL bacteria count from two of the only 3 treatment devices made in the US (Raritan LectraSan/ElectroScan and PuraSan) is <10/100 ml and is -0- from Groco ThermoPure.

If those who tested the Groco didn't get that result, it's most likely because they didn't know how it works. It uses heat to kill bacteria, so requires both 115v/AC power for the heater and DC power for the overboard pump. Plus, unlike the Raritan devices, it's fairly complex and takes a LOT of time to treat completely, plus it's VERY expensive...making it really only suitable on boats 40'+. You can read all about how it has to work here Groco Thermopure-2 Owners Manual and pay close attention to the Treatment Capacity section.

So if the EPA used the ThermoPure as the basis for making ANY waters a NDZ, they based it on a device that's unlikely to be installed on even as many as .5% (that's 1/2 of 1%) of boats in the whole US...fewer 5% have any treatment device!

--Peggie
__________________
© 2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 03:02 PM   #17
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,736
Someone on another forum posted something to a thread about the Puget Sound spill I hadn't ever thought about: If you have a raw water toilet and are in waters impacted by a spill, you're pulling that sewage into your toilet. hoses and holding tank every time you flush the toilet.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 03:26 PM   #18
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by fractalphreak View Post
With little comment from the state Dept. of Ecology or outrage from our environmental friends.

I don't see the flotilla of kayaks out there protesting the release!?! How come?


That's because they are all home sitting on the crapper from all the vegan food and granola.



HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 04:09 PM   #19
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,177
honestly I think governments consider themselves above the laws they pass for regular folk. And flaunt the rules and regulations saying they pursue the greater good or whatever they can afford.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 04:19 PM   #20
Newbie
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4
I wonder if everyone who has commented here has read the linked article. WA state has fined King County for past spills and the county has been upgrading their facilities to prevent future spills. There is no "double standard" in which the counties are allowed to intentionally pump raw sewage while boaters are not. The goal is for no pumping or spills of raw sewage by anyone.

Just like many of you, I sometimes question the actual environmental impact of boaters' relatively small amount of discharge, and I know where all the whales, dolphins, fish, and thousands of birds poop. But the simplest specification for an allowable amount of overall human discharge is zero. And I'm fine with that.

I do agree with those who think that making the entire Puget Sound a No Discharge Zone was unnecessary, but it's hard to explain to non-boaters that the area was already "no discharge" for raw sewage, and that the NDZ designation actually affects only those boaters who were treating their sewage before discharge, just like sewage plants do.
__________________

richard_wb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012