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Old 05-01-2013, 11:22 PM   #1
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Thread Twists and Turns

GFC posted this on the "hydraulic v/s electric" thread.


"This thread seemed to have taken a couple of twists and turns, one of which was to question the OP's desire to have a thruster.

Shouldn't that be his decision? When someone asks for help with a problem, why do people on here continually inject their desires into the OP's world? Why not simply answer his questions as best you can and leave your opinions about what he needs to yourself?"




GFC,
Those of us that like to talk (lurkers don't talk at all) do most of the talking and have much to say. Some are "tweeners" and have the urge to talk once and a while. So it's mostly just a matter of having something to say and knowing we can pretty much say anything we like we say it. Then we have Thread Creep. I try to limit my TC until the OPs subject is mostly run out or at least the question answered ... if there was a question.

There's been movements in the past to cut down on the Thread Creep or/and thread hijacking and I tried pretty hard to stay on topic but over time (not much at that) the TC is so bad it's hard to tell what is going to be discussed when you click in on a thread. Often it will bear no resemblence to the original post and much of the time the OP title tells nothing at all about what the thread is about either. It would be nice if one could scan the threads and see what there is to talk about and click on but w thread titles like "What About This" or some other title that gives NO CLUE as to what's being talked about it's basically hopeless. The only way to not miss stuff is to click on every single thread and though I realize some actually do that I rebel at titles that don't say what the threads about.

And I don't think there has ever been a person evicted from TF and there is just no consequences to anything. So GFC it's just a friendly (mostly) free for all that you just have to wade through all the confusion to get what you want.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:35 PM   #2
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These are mere conversations. They go/weave/wind wherever the participants desire. Hopefully, an OP gets his question (if any) answered in the meantime.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:46 PM   #3
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I agree.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:46 AM   #4
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When someone posts a question I've observed over time there aren't always black and white answers. Someone will usually post a contrary opinion and then off we go. You can post that the sky is blue and someone will always chime in that it's not. Most of the time the question tends to get answered.

I always try to keep in mind this is an enthusiast forum. There are plenty of professional technical forums out there for serious professionals that are far more tightly moderated for content. They are extremely dry, serious places where any banter whatsoever is immediately condemned. Nobody wants that here.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:22 AM   #5
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Many of the lurkers NEED to know that there is not just one single answer to any question.

The more the answers expand the subject the better , as the initial poster usually has an "answer " in the first few opinions.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:41 AM   #6
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Personally if a poster questions the need for an item I am questioning I would welcome that. Perhaps he has a better idea and can save me money. I am the final authority on taking whatever advice is given.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:11 AM   #7
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i am the final authority on taking whatever advice is given.
this!!!
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:05 AM   #8
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Craig the sky is grey not blue.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #9
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:24 PM   #10
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I think some thread creep has some importance because the person may not know/understand the alternatives, pro and cons. So if I feel its relevant, I will tend to wander a bit. If it wanders to far you do not have to read and/or reply.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:53 PM   #11
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Thread creep can be annoying. It can also at times be hilarious. More often leaning towards annoyance... As far as others foisting their opinions on people, that alternates between annoying and informational. How the opinionated person positions their thoughts go a long way towards whether that opinion is taken as relevant information or as their sphincter (opinions are like a$$holes - everybody has one...).

Just my opinion! LOL
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:08 PM   #12
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OK your points are well made and well taken. I don't disagree that some thread creep is a good thing, nor do I disagree that offering one's opinion on whether or not something the OP said had merit or not.

I do get a little irked when someone makes an attack at an OP for something he posted. I've seen that a couple of times recently and, speaking from the standpoint of someone who not too long ago was a newbie to TF, attacks like that can make a newbie not want to come back. When the attacks are belittling and/or insulting, and are made by some of the more senior members of TF, they carry a lot of weight and can chase someone away in a hurry.

An example, someone recently questioned whether an electric or hydraulic thruster would be best for his 41' boat. Several people responded with their opinions then someone questioned whether or not a thruster was even needed on a boat that size. The implication there was the thruster wasn't needed and if the OP would get off the keyboard and onto the boat and practiced docking he'd learn he didn't need a thruster.

Well, you guys (or gals) aren't familiar with his boating skills or his docking situation or wind conditions, etc. Neither am I, but here's a quote from that thread....

Quote:
It's complicated and expensive, it's another hole in the hull, it's another thing to maintain. And really, it's not needed.

A forty footer is not that hard to dock, a few days of practice will have you docking like a pro. Pay yourself $100 an hour for practicing, you'll still come out ahead :-)
I felt like the posts suggesting he didn't need a thruster were on the insulting side. Who are we to question his need for a thruster? Who are we to evaluate his boating skills?

I feel if the OP wanted to hire a captain he'd have done that. He wanted some information from our experience on hydraulic or electric thrusters. Maybe I'm being a little thin skinned here, but when someone takes a jab at a newbie poster, that just ain't right.

There are probably a lot of people around here who think I didn't need to spend money to put a thruster on my boat. Perhaps they're correct, but we live in one of the windiest parts of WA. We frequently have sustained winds of 20-25mph with gusts over 50. We also travel through the locks on the Snake and Columbia Rivers a lot and the wind effects are amplified when you're inside the locks. We also boat all year and try not to let the wind keep us in the slip.

So, the next time you're considering offering a viewpoint that's counter to what the OP posted, please temper your posts with the understanding that he's asking for a reason, not to be judged.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #13
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Well said GFC. As a fairly new member to the site but not new to boating. It seems to me that the first few replies to an OP's question seem reasonable for the most part but then rapidly end up becoming a pissing contest. This is exactly why I don't participate in most threads.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #14
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Just as we don't know the situation the OP boats in, we don't know the intention of the person making the reply.

I would have taken the quoted sentences above as a simple offer of encouragement to a (possibly) new boater who might be afraid that they could never learn to dock without a thruster.

But I see the point. Maybe the OP was an experienced hand would could dock any boat, any time, but just wanted the thruster to make his/her life easier. In that case, you could take those same two sentences as condescending at best, or an insult at worst.

A lot of context and tone is lost when writing, compared to talking. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Like the famous "guy rule" says, if what I said can be interpreted two ways, and one of those ways is hurtful, then I meant the other.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:07 PM   #15
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OK. I felt like the posts suggesting he didn't need a thruster were on the insulting side. Who are we to question his need for a thruster? Who are we to evaluate his boating skills?
.
Scott from Nanaimo is one of the most experienced boaters on the Forum. I took his comment as right on point for a newbie. In fact Scott's post caused me to think about when I added my thruster 3 years ago, and re-affirmed it was what my wife and I needed for the tough places we dock especially when next to very pricey craft.

Bottom line, no insult in my book but my POV comes from a pretty rough working background where thick skins were required.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:37 PM   #16
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I do think that thread creep is an inevitable part of forums like this. It really is like a group sitting around a table. You will always explore the fringes of the topic and will often veer off it. But you will sometimes make it back. What I do believe is that it is impossible to please all the people all the time. We can't read the reactions of others and really correct our tone to soften or reaffirm our position. Everyone's life experience differs and how the reader takes a statement by another member is often unpredictable. Many times something that is WAY below innocent from one is eye-reddening for another.

We all have to be as nice as we can, but we also need to put on our big-boy pants and understand the situation we are in here. This is a forum online... We all want TF to succeed, but we can't have bullies or pansies here either.

But I digress... I am as guilty as anyone of asking a semi-relevant question deep in a thread's life that takes it another direction and I don't apologize for that. TBH, I enjoy seeing my threads go every which-a-way. Usually, it's not hard for me (the original poster in this example) to steer it right back on track by asking a follow-up question. No matter how many pages it is. However, there have been plenty of times that it meanders off to la-la land and I don't even look at it again. And that is just fine too.

We have to keep our heads up around here. Compared to other forums, this is a pretty nice place and I hope it stays that way. I can never thank you guys enough because nearly everything I have learned about Skinny Dippin' was right here and she's a damn fine vessel because of it. Sure, not everyone has their facts straight 100% of the time, but gosh... someone will eventually get it right and we can ALL learn from it. The g-spot is to find the balancing point where everyone benefits and grows from our COMBINED experience.

This post is worth what you paid for it, but I really like the atmosphere here. And yes, I realize this topic has now creeped... and yes, I realize it's my fault. I hope you forgive me...
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:39 PM   #17
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A lot of context and tone is lost when writing, compared to talking. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Like the famous "guy rule" says, if what I said can be interpreted two ways, and one of those ways is hurtful, then I meant the other.
I can sure buy into that! Expressing yourself accurately in English and with the written word, is problematic at best.

There are a few on this forum who have the talent to express themselves accurately. I won't mention their names.....I'll just conjure up images of them patting themselves on the back.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #18
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There are a few on this forum who have the talent to express themselves accurately.
They have a much more goodlier grasps of you're English langwage.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #19
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They have a much more goodlier grasps of you're English langwage.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:49 PM   #20
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I'm with GFC on this one.

The thruster question is just a matter of money. It's a handy tool if you can afford one. If someone offered to put one on my boat and do a good job I'd jump. This idea that ther'e some sort of training wheels for boats is a cheap way of putting oneself high up on the throne. To say ther'e not needed is stupid as it's obvious we got along quite well W/O them before they came along.

Tom B.,
Thanks for the input. I have a much better idea of what thread creep is bad and what just adds to the fun and informative interchanges.
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