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09-06-2015, 08:30 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: Sidney
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin
That's when I learned that much of the planet does their nav markers the other way round from the US and Canada. Once I knew that I didn't have to think about it anymore. It simply became the way it is when running a boat in that part of the world.
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The attached pic shows the areas of the world where the two buoyage systems apply.
Far too many boaters take Red Right Returning as absolute and wind up where they shouldn't be. Puget Sound and the BC coast are full of examples where it can be confusing as to when you are actually returning. Then, the direction north and/or flood current come into play. Reading charts, as everyone here knows is imperative.
Locally, the area around Nanaimo has floods running in many directions. Satellite Channel near Swartz Bay, same thing and a great learning area day and night. So many buoys by day and at night, there are a couple of spots where as many as 17 lights can be seen. Red, white and green, many sequences and several duplicates. It's fun to just sit with the appropriate chart and figure it all out.
Also some trivia; the east side of Vancouver Island (Johnstone Strait etc.) floods from north and south. Mitlenatch Island is said to be where the two floods meet. Mitlenatch is Sliammon or Salish for calm on all sides.
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09-06-2015, 08:32 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays
Being completely ignorant, can you please describe what is meant by "port to port"?
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When you are passing bow to bow with another vessel you keep her to your port side and she does likewise. Imagine the waterway as a two lane highway. You stay to your side and she stays to hers.
Overriding all of this is the cardinal rule - avoid a collision. If you are on her starboard side (and she on yours), just power down and wait until she passes rather than try and rectify just to meet the port to port rule, as that would mean you crossing her bow. Or, through use of communications clearly state that you will pass to her starboard. If you do that you should make sure to get an acknowledgement.
I was once traveling from Great Sale Cay to Spanish in the Bahamas and two very large yachts approached at WOT (80-90 footers). We were in a fairly open sea but they were obviously following the Dodge route as was I. They were about a half mile apart. The first cut across my bow going port to starboard near enough to throw a significant wake. My boat could handle it being on my port quarter, but there was some safety concern. I radioed the second yacht and asked for a port to port. He instantly changed course and complied. This also gave the benefit in that we passed stern to stern rather than bow to bow, so much less chance of a collision because of bad judgement.
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09-06-2015, 08:41 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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The dangerous part is coming in from the Atlantic using red right returning and hitting the ICW going north, where it changes to red to the west, green to the east. If there happens to be a shoal before you worked it out....
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09-06-2015, 08:46 PM
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#24
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,567
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Greetings,
Mr. d. When approaching an oncoming vessel the convention is to stay on the right side (your starboard) of the channel and pass said approaching vessel with it on your port side. Aforementioned approaching vessel will do the same and you will pass each other with your port side on his port side. STILL don't know if it's only convention or a law. You are required by law to stay to the right to pass an approaching vehicle on a road.
__________________
RTF
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09-06-2015, 08:47 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
The dangerous part is coming in from the Atlantic using red right returning and hitting the ICW going north, where it changes to red to the west, green to the east. If there happens to be a shoal before you worked it out....
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I think someone already said it here: "When in doubt, stop the boat and get out of doubt!"
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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09-06-2015, 08:52 PM
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#26
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,567
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Greetings,
Gee, not too bad. 200+ postings on techniques/inventions before we drifted into rules of the road. I think it was post #'s 210 and 211 that did us in so may I suggest techniques/inventions please. THAT'S the interesting stuff.
__________________
RTF
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09-06-2015, 09:33 PM
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#27
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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On my rather light planing boat, the right hand wheel lifts the stbd side, other than suntan balance that is the technical reason for stbd helm. Boats with left hand wheels, helm on port. Weight of the helmsman helps balance when under way. Only applies to light boats where helmsman weight could have any effect.
At cruise my shaft is putting down about 830ft lbs at 200hp and 20kts. I am 175lbs standing about four feet stbd of center line. 4'x175lb is 700ft lb using a moment calc. Pretty dang close.
Need more cheeseburger to balance exactly.
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09-06-2015, 09:40 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc
I think someone already said it here: "When in doubt, stop the boat and get out of doubt!"
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Combine that with:
This is the grave of Mike O’Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His right was clear, his will was strong,
But he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong.
I've seen people more interested in asserting their rights or arguing navigation rules than just doing the common sense thing and backing away to avoid an accident. If you can avert an accident or even a stressful situation, then just do so. I've stopped completely when in a narrow way or approaching congestion just to let the others clear. You see a madhouse occasionally on a bridge opening.
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09-06-2015, 09:46 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
Combine that with:
This is the grave of Mike O’Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His right was clear, his will was strong,
But he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong.
I've seen people more interested in asserting their rights or arguing navigation rules than just doing the common sense thing and backing away to avoid an accident. If you can avert an accident or even a stressful situation, then just do so. I've stopped completely when in a narrow way or approaching congestion just to let the others clear. You see a madhouse occasionally on a bridge opening.
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Actually, it is really not an option. Here in the US, it is in the regs. Superceding all other rules a vessel MUST do all possible to avoid a collision.
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09-06-2015, 09:53 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
Actually, it is really not an option. Here in the US, it is in the regs. Superceding all other rules a vessel MUST do all possible to avoid a collision.
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I know that and you know that, but some obviously don't like it. They want to cite and argue Colregs and apparently know all the regs except that one, the one that counts the most.
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09-06-2015, 11:04 PM
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#31
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Scraping Paint
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
Locomotive engineer controls are located on the "starboard" side.
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Except in the UK where the locomotive engineer's position is on the left and the fireman on the right and trains run on the opposite sides of a double track mainline than they do in North America. This still holds true today.
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09-07-2015, 06:31 AM
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#32
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Gee, not too bad. 200+ postings on techniques/inventions before we drifted into rules of the road. I think it was post #'s 210 and 211 that did us in so may I suggest techniques/inventions please. THAT'S the interesting stuff.
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I meant post 236 as a key trick/technique.
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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09-07-2015, 07:21 AM
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#33
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
I've seen people more interested in asserting their rights or arguing navigation rules than just doing the common sense thing and backing away to avoid an accident. If you can avert an accident or even a stressful situation, then just do so. I've stopped completely when in a narrow way or approaching congestion just to let the others clear. You see a madhouse occasionally on a bridge opening.
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Absolutely, I give way regularly in the marina fairway (main channel) when afternoon cruisers leave the bar and enter the fairway without looking. 50' SF and I are on either side of the fuel dock filling. SF starts to pull away from the dock as a 30' cruiser coming from behind tries to go around the SF. SF backs down and starts yelling. Alcohol fueled captain of the cruiser (that never even slowed down) says, "I never saw you moving because you're too big". SF captain responds, "you need to go back to the bar and have another drink".
I have always said that the most dangerous part of running wreck diving charters is making it safely back from the seabuoy to my slip on Saturday afternoon.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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09-07-2015, 08:08 AM
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#34
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
The dangerous part is coming in from the Atlantic using red right returning and hitting the ICW going north, where it changes to red to the west, green to the east. If there happens to be a shoal before you worked it out....
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Just remember in most cases red is on the mainland side of the channel in the ICW. Forget about red, right, returning on the ICW. Other then say leaving it to head out to sea or into a harbour.
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09-07-2015, 08:26 AM
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#35
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Guru
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Just remember in most cases red is on the mainland side of the channel in the ICW. Forget about red, right, returning on the ICW. Other then say leaving it to head out to sea or into a harbour.
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I always used the meme; "Red earth (mainland), green water (ocean)"
But you are right it is most (almost all) cases... double check for that little yellow square or triangle!
__________________
George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
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09-07-2015, 10:57 AM
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#36
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
When you are passing bow to bow with another vessel you keep her to your port side and she does likewise. Imagine the waterway as a two lane highway. You stay to your side and she stays to hers.
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Thanks Menzies. I am familiar with rules in head-on situations but just had never heard of it referred to as "port to port". This may save me some considerable embarrassment.
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09-07-2015, 11:29 AM
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#37
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays
Thanks Menzies. I am familiar with rules in head-on situations but just had never heard of it referred to as "port to port". This may save me some considerable embarrassment.
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You may on the radio hear it called a "one whistle" pass.
Especially if you monitor channel 13 on a second radio.
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09-07-2015, 12:12 PM
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#38
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
You may on the radio hear it called a "one whistle" pass.
Especially if you monitor channel 13 on a second radio.
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Actually that's not quite accurate. The one and two whistle passes are used when overtaking someone from astern to let them know, first that you are there and passing, and secondly to let them know which side. This is often joined with a request for a slow pass. The slow pass is to give the boat being passed a more comfortable time and to speed up the procedure.
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09-07-2015, 12:16 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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How in the H E double hockey sticks did this turn into a fricken basic navigation thread?
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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09-07-2015, 12:52 PM
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#40
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Guru
City: Seabrook, Texas
Vessel Name: Small World
Vessel Model: Defever 50
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
Actually that's not quite accurate. The one and two whistle passes are used when overtaking someone from astern to let them know, first that you are there and passing, and secondly to let them know which side. This is often joined with a request for a slow pass. The slow pass is to give the boat being passed a more comfortable time and to speed up the procedure.
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They also apply when meeting bow to bow.
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