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Old 09-08-2015, 09:01 PM   #81
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I thought it was coming from the fishing vessel. Well that changes how I look at it.
I bet!
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:02 PM   #82
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Was the fishing vessel fishing? Looks like he had gear in the water. Stopping or significantly altering course would be a royal PITA if even possible. The sailboat has his sails up sure but he's very maneurverable none the less. Ten to fifty times as maneuverable as the fish boat if he had gear down.

Does he?
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:06 PM   #83
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What? Another case a sailboater believes all other vessels must avoid him?
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:12 PM   #84
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Nope not fishing. Outriggers out for stability while in transit.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:15 PM   #85
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It's not unheard of that fishermen go to sleep and leave navigation to the autopilot.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:16 PM   #86
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Nope not fishing. Outriggers out for stability while in transit.
Was the sailing vessel only under sail, or was it's engine running at the time?

You seem to know the details. Is there an findings report you can direct us to?
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:44 PM   #87
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Somewhere around 20 to 25 seconds into the video is where the sailboat should have begun turning to starboard. Collision avoided. I'll bet there was a bit of "Hey, we're under sail, we're standing on" thinking going on in the sailboat skipper's head.
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Old 09-08-2015, 10:33 PM   #88
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That helps with part of it. Now is that my port or his?





Here's how I remember the horn signals:

Think "self-centered". (By that I mean The one first sending the signal is who's port/starboard is the subject)

1 blast, (1 syllable in "port") I'm leaving you to my port.
2 blasts, (2 syllables in "starboard") I'm leaving you to my starboard.
Make sense?

By the way, Power Boating for Dummies has this WRONG!
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:25 PM   #89
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I like thread creep.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:00 AM   #90
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Red right returning is for returning from the sea.
Not anywhere else in the world. It is presumed you are returning to a port/harbour/marina, and the IALA bouyage regs are the Green is to the right in this case.

Navigation – buoys, marks and beacons (Maritime Safety Queensland)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_mark

Here is the entry to Brisbane river and port as an example..I think...

Entry to Brisbane river and port won't work...I'll work on that, meantime you can find it here map no 10...Moreton Bay..

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Boating-ma...ay-guides.aspx
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:40 AM   #91
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Not anywhere else in the world. It is presumed you are returning to a port/harbour/marina, and the IALA bouyage regs are the Green is to the right in this case....


"Not anywhere else in the world." except for Region B which comprises nations in North America, Central America and South America, the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan and Korea.

In Region B only, the phrase "red right returning" may be used as a mnemonic, indicating that a red mark must be kept on the right when returning to (i.e., entering) a harbor or river from seaward.

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Old 09-09-2015, 12:53 AM   #92
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The Hombolt looked like she was pointing as high as she could She would've had to have either doused sail or tacked; not an easy feat in a 200' three masted barque. Falling off wasn't an option.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tions_2011.pdf


At a hearing 30/05/2011 at Southampton Magistrates the Officer of the Watch of a fishing vessel pleaded guilty to one safety charge brought under Section 58 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. He was fined £1,700 plus costs of £6,435.
On the 20th August 2010 the Andrea had finished fishing and was returning to port in the Netherlands. The skipper and rest of the crew were below leaving Jan Baarssen alone on the bridge in sole charge of the vessel. The Andrea is a 36.5 metre beam trawler registered in the UK but is based in the Netherlands




The Alexander von Humboldt was returning to Germany after a training voyage with a crew of fifty nine (59) consisting of thirty three (33) trainees and twenty six (26) full time crew. She is a large three masted sail training vessel registered in Germany.
The visibility on the day was good (10 Km +), wind was southerly force 5-6 with weather being grey and overcast.
During the afternoon of the 20th August 2011 the Alexander von Humboldt detected the Andrea on a steady bearing on its port side. The Andrea was not fishing and was the give way vessel. The Alexander von Humboldt started sounding its whistle. The Andrea failed to give way. The Alexander von Humboldt also tried to contact the Andrea by VHF radio but had no response. The Andrea claims to have gone hard to starboard and when within 15-20 metres of the Alex von Humboldt, the Andrea was seen to go full astern. The Andrea struck the port quarter of the Alexander von Humboldt. It was a fairly low speed collision.
Apart from some scratched paintwork, the Andrea was undamaged.
The Alexander von Humboldt was lucky to suffer only some dented shell plating with associated damage to internal wooden bulkheads and deck planking together with bent or buckled handrails. It was very fortunate that no harm came to the crew of the Alexander von Humboldt and that its rigging and watertight integrity remained intact.
Mr Jan Baarssen, 51, of Urk, Netherlands pleaded guilty for conduct endangering ships or persons. He was finerd£1,700 plus costs of £6,435
In passing sentence the Magistrates stated that it was fortunate that they were no injuries especially among the sail training crew.
Mr David Fuller O.B.E., Principal Fishing Vessel Surveyor for the Eastern Region of the MCA stated:"This is yet another incident occurring on the return of a fishing vessel to harbour. Fishermen are reminded of the requirement to keep a good lookout at all times. Also that that the trip is not over until the vessel is safely tied up in port.
We would like to thank the German and Netherlands Police for their assistance in this matter"
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:42 AM   #93
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Thanks Spy.
The proceedings were a prosecution under the Merchant shipping Act, it either gets proven, as it was in this case, or it fails.
An apportionment of liability between boats could be found in civil proceedings for damages, brought by either vessel`s owners or in their names by insurers, by their subrogation rights. Always assuming the evidence supports an apportionment which, on those facts as found, looks less than likely.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:17 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryM View Post

"Not anywhere else in the world." except for Region B which comprises nations in North America, Central America and South America, the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan and Korea.

In Region B only, the phrase "red right returning" may be used as a mnemonic, indicating that a red mark must be kept on the right when returning to (i.e., entering) a harbor or river from seaward.

Well, bugger me - what's the point of having an international standard, when some countries choose not to follow it for chrissakes..?
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:08 AM   #95
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Two regions, A and B. Pre-existing bouyage. That would be like forcing everyone to drive on the same side of the road. Expensive to change.
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:24 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Not anywhere else in the world. It is presumed you are returning to a port/harbour/marina, and the IALA bouyage regs are the Green is to the right in this case.

Navigation – buoys, marks and beacons (Maritime Safety Queensland)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_mark

Here is the entry to Brisbane river and port as an example..I think...

Entry to Brisbane river and port won't work...I'll work on that, meantime you can find it here map no 10...Moreton Bay..

Moreton Bay guides (Maritime Safety Queensland)
Pete,

Please note that I was responding to your post (#52) in which it appeared to me that you were comparing US and Canada only. Perhaps I miss read your post to include other areas.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:33 PM   #97
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Two regions, A and B. Pre-existing bouyage. That would be like forcing everyone to drive on the same side of the road. Expensive to change.


And, nowhere is it more clear that neither system is foolproof or right than here on our coast. Every time we go out we encounter situations that defy the logic of either red OR green right returning. After all, how, or where, do we really determine when we are actually returning FROM seaward?

To follow either system without an accompanying chart is just nuts.

And, by the way, "international" is as real a term as "world series."


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Old 09-09-2015, 06:55 PM   #98
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Listening to the commercial users on the river as I come and go I have noticed that passing is usually 'red to red', rather that using 'port to port'.

Occasionally someone wants to pass 'green to green', and in those cases it is apparent that the other vessel needs to agree. Whereas for a 'red to red' pass the other vessel's agreement is expected, although confirmation is always given. For 'red to red' it comes across as a statement of intent, and for 'green to green' it is more of a question and the tone is 'are you happy to comply?' This is normally on Channel 12, with Port of Brisbane VTS monitoring and using it as well. Vessels are mostly tugs, some barges or dredgers and the Moreton Island ferries.

I just keep out of everyone's way, and use port side of river except upriver from the Port and where nearing a a City Cat ferry terminal, where I leave enough room for them to pass to starboard if they wish. Sometimes they will call me on the VHF (Channel 13 up river) but usually not. Sometimes one of their Captains will cut across my bow, but not in a dangerously close manner to date. I have my AIS on, and usually the City Cats do as well so they can easily confirm my speed. I'm typically at 8 kn while they can easily be 20 kn.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:51 PM   #99
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Brian, you are fortunate with your ferry experiences. Here the harbour route ferries display a red diamond, and have right of way, to pretty much do whatever they like. Some Captains are good guys you can easily work with, but some are nasty vindictive operators.
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:07 PM   #100
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There have been a couple of incidents with the City Cats on the river, although none recently. One I remember was when in poor light pre-dawn a City Cat collided with a schoolgirl rowing eight. No-one injured fortunately although I think all of the girls ended up in the water. But I think the Captains became well aware, and indeed may have been reminded by the authorities, that they have an obligation to avoid collisions irrespective of any rights of way.

Edit
Oops, bad memory there were some injuries. And it seems rower-City Cat collisions are not that rare, another one just a few months ago.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...31-ghdt1x.html

http://www.news.com.au/national/stud...-1226392436858

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...31-ghdt1x.html
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