Thoughts on widebody boats

[mbevins]

Whether you use hawse holes or not .... same gig.
But as per your dwg l will need to work within the length of the boat and almost always double tie.

Because of the double tying I should probably scrap my 5/8ths mooring lines for 1/2". Just made up all my mooring lines though.

When I have to share a transom or bow line cleat with a spring line I usually run the spring through the eye of the cleat and simply tie a bowline. That leaves the horns clear for the other line.

 

[AusCan]

AusCan, to make it easy jump create a very large loop at one end. I did that and it is easy to toss over the cleat...... The loop is about 8' long.

Dave - That certainly is a big loop! I generally don't trust my line toss. I use the stiffest rope I could find with a bowline loops tied on either end. The stiffness allows me to reach out a total of about 6 feet with the loop to the dock cleat. It works well.
If I'm more than 6 feet from my finger, I'm too close to my neighbour anyway on these shared berths.


Sorry about the thread drift, Topsail!

 

[Benthic2]

some of the Mainships have access to the foredeck through the flybridge....

 

[theTopsail]

some of the Mainships have access to the foredeck through the flybridge....

What happens if you get whitewater breaking up there? I suppose that boat is not really intended to go too far offshore - although it must be a good coastal cruiser.

 

[theTopsail]

Dave - That certainly is a big loop! I generally don't trust my line toss. I use the stiffest rope I could find with a bowline loops tied on either end. The stiffness allows me to reach out a total of about 6 feet with the loop to the dock cleat. It works well.
If I'm more than 6 feet from my finger, I'm too close to my neighbour anyway on these shared berths.


Sorry about the thread drift, Topsail!

Not too much of a problem considering I learnt from what was posted in the little drift!

 

[ranger58sb]

Chris,
I have a spring line with a loop on either end which I leave hanging loosely between a cleat on my foredeck (abeam of my mast) and the cleat at my cockpit on the starboard side. As I enter the home berth, my wife unhooks the cockpit end and loops it over the first dock cleat. I gently take up the tension and leave the boat idling in forward gear while turning the wheel hard to port. The tightening spring line pulls the bow tight to the dock. With the rudder turned hard away from the dock, the stern is pushed into the dock while power is applied. If there is a strong wind or current pushing me off the finger, a bit more throttle may be necessary.

With the boat idling in gear and a single line holding the boat in place, I casually get off the boat and tie off the bow and stern at my leisure.

Got it, thanks. That's almost exactly the inverse of our normal drill, but would work pretty much same way. I just hadn't earlier understood you meant idling in FORWARD gear.

FWIW, our common technique -- with crew aboard, on the bow -- is to grab a pre-set spring from the forward-most pile in our 4-way slip (pen), lay it on our forward midships cleat, and then I can complete reversing into the slip. Acts as a nice brake, and we can have lunch or whatever if we want to, before setting any more lines.

When I'm alone, I've got an alternative set-up. Pre-set line from an aft midship pile that I can rune to a stern cleat. When I come down the cockpit stairs, I can grab that line, lay it over the cleat, rearward movement is arrested. If necessary, the next line I set is a pre-set aft-leading spring from an aft midship pile on the other side of the boat... running to the aft midship cleat on that side. Movement in either inward or outward direction is arrested, I can get on to that lunch thing...

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

AusCan, to make it easy jump create a very large loop at one end. I did that and it is easy to toss over the cleat. When stretched lengthwise that loop is about 4 feet I think.

Ok, I set my iced coffee down and walked all the way from the bow where I was sitting in the sun (something I never do) to the aft cockpit where that line is hanging. The loop is about 8' long. So unless my mental math fails me that is a diameter of about 5'.

We also have a line with a BIG loop that we use for our primary traveling spring.

Came about because we once went to marina that had a novice dock guy. Deb passed him a normal dock line with pre-spliced loop, told him which pile to put it over... but he said the loop wouldn't fit. He had no clue about pulling the line through the eye, and Deb hadn't realized she needed to have prepared it for him in advance...

We had a bit of a fire drill from that, because wind was blowing side-to the boat, we had no steerage, our direction of uncontrolled travel was beam to a boatload of anchors and pulpits on the other side of the fairway, etc etc... and my only recourse was to get the line on where the dock guy stood so I could back down on it to pull us into the wind and up against the dock.

I decided a BIG loop would address that, if it came up again in future.



-Chris

 

[Benthic2]

What happens if you get whitewater breaking up there? I suppose that boat is not really intended to go too far offshore - although it must be a good coastal cruiser.

I'm sure there's a canvas cover for the opening that might keep out some water, but as others have said....everything is a compromise. Otherwise we'd all be driving that boat that goes 35 knots on solar power, sleeps 10, is trailerable, blue water capable, with a 1 foot draft, joystick drive, and costs less than a car.

 

[sdowney717]

I'm sure there's a canvas cover for the opening that might keep out some water, but as others have said....everything is a compromise. Otherwise we'd all be driving that boat that goes 35 knots on solar power, sleeps 10, is trailerable, blue water capable, with a 1 foot draft, joystick drive, and costs less than a car.

Add in the flying anti-grav boat, rides about 5 foot above the water surface on a cushion of air. That solves the hull drag problem so could go as fast as a car with great mpg.

 

[FF]

"Add in the flying anti-grav boat, rides about 5 foot above the water surface on a cushion of air. That solves the hull drag problem so could go as fast as a car with great mpg."

You would need a different source of thrust than an air propeller as used on a hovercraft or air boat.

A boat with a wet propeller gets about 20# of thrust from each HP ,
an air Prop only gives about 5# , so it tales 4X the HP to go the same speed.

70 MPH might be possible , but 50 MPG , perhaps not.

 

[swampu]

I have the best of both worlds, 16' wide cabin with a 3' walk around on both sides

 

[psneeld]

I have the best of both worlds, 16' wide cabin with a 3' walk around on both sides
View attachment 65015

For me...being on your boat would be like why Mark Pierce likes taking cruises on cruise ships.....

 

[theTopsail]

I have the best of both worlds, 16' wide cabin with a 3' walk around on both sides
View attachment 65015

That is the best of both worlds! At the beginning of this school year, I was convinced having a beamy boat would be the best way to go however then I had to realise the practical aspects... aka how wide average slips in a marina are. In Europe where you med moor, beam is not an issue however back home in the states, our marinas have slips that are constrained by beam.

I assume the pictured boat is a conversion?

 

[Pack Mule]

Nice picture swampy ! Man I love those overhahangs .

 

[mbevins]

Nice picture swampy ! Man I love those overhahangs .

Swampy... what exactly is this vessel?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Wide is golden until you pay the fuel bill or want more speed. And both of those issues are not small ones on TF.

 

[eyschulman]

Whether you use hawse holes or not .... same gig.
But as per your dwg l will need to work within the length of the boat and almost always double tie.

Because of the double tying I should probably scrap my 5/8ths mooring lines for 1/2". Just made up all my mooring lines though.

In the PNW it is rare that dock lines during cursing season get high stress. Almost all docks are floating and this allows for much shorter springs. I use 1/2 inch on my 34,000 lb boat and have done so for > 20 years in the PNW. If conditions at the dock are bad I double the stressed line and deal with chafe. The lines are plenty strong it is the chafe that may become a problem. I also keep lines particularly near the stern of the boat as short as possible to help avoid prop wrap, thus a long spring from the stern would not fit my thinking. I tend to use short springs from the mid ship cleats or the intermediate cleats there are 4 cleats on each side of my boat another design and build for use pattern item. Obviously in other parts of the world with none floating docks different tie up methods are called for.

 

[theTopsail]

Wide is golden until you pay the fuel bill or want more speed. And both of those issues are not small ones on TF.

Yes. The last time I was at a fuel dock, I had the [STRIKE]pleasure[/STRIKE] experience of watching a super yacht refuel. By the time the yacht had finished, the bill totaled just shy of £45k. From that point on, I became more aware of how much fuel does cost for long distance yachts. Regarding speed, when you opt for a beamy trawler with a high length to breadth ratio, in most cases you are taking more beam and space aboard at the price of limiting yourself to displacement speeds. Sure there are some boats that go fast with high L/B ratios however they use lots of power which goes back to needing to pay for fuel. I am interested in the design of both trawlers with high L/B and D/L ratios as well as "lite" trawlers which go a bit faster. There is a fine balance between beam, speed, and fuel bills... among other things.

 

[Nomad Willy]

eyshulman and topsail,
Well said and good posts both.
eyshulman,
Shorter spring lines have less spring but smaller dia lines have more. The big peoblem w my "fat" lines is that the floats are cheap w small cleats.

 

[Greg S]

In the PNW it is rare that dock lines during cursing season get high stress.

Hmm? Cursing season? Is that when the boat is on the hard and you're "encouraging " the boatyard staff to get her finished and back in the water, or is that when it's in the water and night after night you're trying to moor in a crowded cove?

 

[FF]

"Wide is golden until you pay the fuel bill or want more speed."

The least wetted surface is on a beach ball, so big beam is not a fuel waster, at cruising speed.

It only lowers the efficient cruise speed a bit , unless the boat has about 6-1 Length to Beam ratio .

3-1 L-B or 2.5-1LB no big deal.

 

[swampu]

Top, this boat is not a conversion it was one of 3 that was built from a yard that built mostly shrimp and work boats.

 

[theTopsail]

Top, this boat is not a conversion it was one of 3 that was built from a yard that built mostly shrimp and work boats.

Got it. Is the hull the same one that is on the commercial boats or was it modified for pleasure use?

 

[Art]

Yo - Topsail... Welcome aboard TF!

Great to have a 20 yr. old that knows what he's talking about and actually reads what other's say. Too Cool!

So... anyway... In regards to side or no side decks: "Dif Strokes fer Dif Folks"

Me - I'm addicted to side decks with full railing all over outer portions of boat. Safety, serviceability, and quick maneuverability are my/our three prime reasons.

Of course I/we do want room inside too. That's why we own a 34' loa, 12'6" beam Tollycraft; she's seaworthy, self contained, comfortably laid out and built like a tank for a Pleasure Boat!

Some like to call nearly every boat a "Trawler"; that's an advertising gimmick that really got underway for general usage in the early 80's. Word The word "Trawler" worked quite well and sounds romantic as that term was then printed on promotions and it helped sell a lot of "Pleasure Boats"!

Side decks on our Tolly are just wide enough to easily pass through while leaving enough interior room for playtime and "other" things .

Best luck in all your boat doings - for the rest of your life!

Happy Side-Deck Daze! - Art

 

[theTopsail]

Yo - Topsail... Welcome aboard TF!

Great to have a 20 yr. old that knows what he's talking about and actually reads what other's say. Too Cool!

So... anyway... In regards to side or no side decks: "Dif Strokes fer Dif Folks"

Me - I'm addicted to side decks with full railing all over outer portions of boat. Safety, serviceability, and quick maneuverability are my/our three prime reasons.

Of course I/we do want room inside too. That's why we own a 34' loa, 12'6" beam Tollycraft; she's seaworthy, self contained, comfortably laid out and built like a tank for a Pleasure Boat!

Some like to call nearly every boat a "Trawler"; that's an advertising gimmick that really got underway for general usage in the early 80's. Word The word "Trawler" worked quite well and sounds romantic as that term was then printed on promotions and it helped sell a lot of "Pleasure Boats"!

Side decks on our Tolly are just wide enough to easily pass through while leaving enough interior room for playtime and "other" things .

Best luck in all your boat doings - for the rest of your life!

Happy Side-Deck Daze! - Art

To start, thanks! Quite enjoying being here on TF as it has been (and I am sure will continue to be) an interesting source of trawler and non trawler related information.

Even though I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable when it comes to boats in general, I am not at all an expert on anything quite yet . Don't know how I will learn anything if I don't read what people have to say as well!

This thread has made me more quite aware of balance that must be struck between side decks and interior space as well as the accompanying pros and cons of each.

Seems your boat has a good sized beam for the LOA of only 34'. A similarly sized Nordic Tug has a beam of 11'4"!

Regarding true trawlers versus fakes, many of the yachts marketed as trawlers are not real blue water cruising boats. I am sure many here have read Voyaging Under Power by Beebe. The hardback copy I have which is the 4th edition has a nice bit on true "Trollers" versus light trawlers. It goes into the S/L, D/L ratios... among other things. The trawler name is a quite good marketing tool however it can be misleading...

 

[dhays]

Regarding true trawlers versus fakes, many of the yachts marketed as trawlers are not real blue water cruising boats.

That assumes that "true trawlers", ie boats designed to drag a net across the ocean bottom, is a "blue water" boat. Working boats are designed to a get a particular job done as efficiently as possible. I would imagine there are many boats designed to trawl nets that wouln't be ideal for an ocean crossing. Not all fisheries are days out in the ocean.

 

[theTopsail]

That assumes that "true trawlers", ie boats designed to drag a net across the ocean bottom, is a "blue water" boat. Working boats are designed to a get a particular job done as efficiently as possible. I would imagine there are many boats designed to trawl nets that wouln't be ideal for an ocean crossing. Not all fisheries are days out in the ocean.

Upon thinking about it, I probably should have reworded that as the assumption I made does assume we are talking about a specific kind of fishing trawler. There are many kinds of trawlers

 

[markajh]

Greetings!

I am a student studying yacht design and production. One of my interests is in trawler yacht design so I thought it could be useful to poke my head in here to learn more about trawler yachts and the interesting community of people who own them.

I am interested to hear people's thoughts on widebody boats (boats that have a wide saloon that replaces one or both of the side decks). While I was doing some browsing on the internet, I found many companies such as Kadey-Krogen and Nordhavn offer some boats only in widebody configurations.

Does anyone have experience operating a widebody trawler? I personally think the upsides of having a full walkaround boat outweigh the space you gain by absorbing the side deck into the saloon however I am quite interested to hear opposing viewpoints!

Looking forward to learning something new!

A trawler is typically about function. I've been on several Hatteras with the wide salon topside - and it's nice for a living room, but very impractical out. Look at the Swift 50. The side decks aren't identical. The starboard side is wide and covered - I think 18". The port is 12"+ ... so you have functionality with a wider salon space. Pretty smart. Boat test has a 2017 review on the features as well as sea trials. You would find it pretty interesting.

 

[theTopsail]

A trawler is typically about function. I've been on several Hatteras with the wide salon topside - and it's nice for a living room, but very impractical out. Look at the Swift 50. The side decks aren't identical. The starboard side is wide and covered - I think 18". The port is 12"+ ... so you have functionality with a wider salon space. Pretty smart. Boat test has a 2017 review on the features as well as sea trials. You would find it pretty interesting.

Have been looking at the boattest reviews for years . Just looked at The Swift Trawler 50 review and it looks like it has only a 3" difference between the side decks. I wonder how noticeable that would be. Could just be the difference between brushing your shoulder a few times on the cabin side. It is quite interesting that they have only one side covered until the aft deck. I wonder if that has to do with drag at planing speeds.

 

[markajh]

Swift side deck layout

Have been looking at the boattest reviews for years . Just looked at The Swift Trawler 50 review and it looks like it has only a 3" difference between the side decks. I wonder how noticeable that would be. Could just be the difference between brushing your shoulder a few times on the cabin side. It is quite interesting that they have only one side covered until the aft deck. I wonder if that has to do with drag at planing speeds.

This deck layout is a pretty good view - covered side deck one side. If you look at the profiles port and starboard - they did the cabin cover to match. It looks the same both sides - pretty nice design work.