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Old 10-09-2010, 01:00 AM   #41
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

Marin, I had not read your 'prophetic' piece re the future Eric has now condemned Thorne Bay to now, before today. You might be a bit of a cynic, but sadly not too wide of the mark in some ways. What you described, is actually startlingly like the image most of us downunder have of the US. Steroetypical certainly, and probably not universally true. Sadly, instead of learning from that, however, we've tended to import a darn copy more or less the same.
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:23 AM   #42
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Thorne Bay winds

Well I see you guys have been having some fun mentally changing Thorne Bay into cities and towns that are like the places where you live but you're not getting me worried. Today we have typical SE fall weather and you'd all turn tail and leave if you were here. It's blow'in about 30 to 50 out there and slobbering rain..... probably will accumulate over an inch of rain. We moved here to the SW part of SE Alaska because there are lots of roads to wander on and the cruise ships don't come here. There's nothing much to see or do here (except fish) so I don't see them coming. This part of SE Alaska is very much like it was in the 50s or 60s. It was commercial fishing instead of sport fishing then (and I prefer it that way) and there was much more logging then also. It's nice that the roads are'nt laden w very heavy log trucks but logging gave us the roads in the first place. The rest of Alaska is much more "majestic" than SW so I don't see much more tourism in the future. Most (as in well over 90%) of the tourism is sport fishermen and some bear hunters. Don't know why anyone would want to shoot a bear but they do and some of those bastards don't know a cub from a full grown bear. The sport fishermen come for a short stay (got to get home and make more money) and fish hard as they can. They catch as many as they can and send them home to Wichita or wherever. Kinda sad in several ways. The bottom fish (halibut, Snapper and ling cod) are a prize catch now and a lot of us are afraid they will be fished out. The salmon have been much depleted but there is still is a fishery both sport and commercial but no one knows how long it will last. Retired people want golf courses and sunshine. I think in the future the fishing will get even weaker but the logging will be stronger. I think SW SE will stay much the way it is until ther's twice as many people on earth as today and then people will have so many more and intense problems that * * * * * * * * * * ?But if they come here it will be to rape the land and sea again.


But for now most of the people here are totally or somewhat dependent on tourism so they are doing everything they can to attract same. Which is a bit different than my own aspirations but when in Rome...


Mark,
My Willy has 5 hp per ton and is only 5 to 10% over powered but being 5-10 over is better than being 5-10 under. But being 10-20% under powered would not be the end of the world as your cruising speed would be only 5-10% less. That's how I confidently predicted your loading at 6. When I know a vessel's disp and power I make sort of a game of checking the power loading. The yacht w the lowest loading I know of is 2 hp per ton. A rather large yacht w a Gardner engine.
You will also be about 10% overpowered (w your 85hp) but if that number is wrong you will be more over powered than 10% * *....not less.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Saturday 9th of October 2010 09:45:00 AM
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:46 AM   #43
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Thorne Bay winds

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nomadwilly wrote:

Today we have typical SE fall weather and you'd all turn tail and leave if you were here.
But Eric, don't you know that global warming is going to change all that?* By the time the trickle of newbies to Thorne Bay, drawn there intitally by your glowing reports of the scenery, fishing, boating etc., turns into a river of newbies there will be palm trees growing there.

But you can easily prevent an influx of newcomers.* The word used to be yuppies but I don't know what the current term is for people who move to an area because of it's "natural wonders" and then as soon as they settle in they start spending tons of money to turn it into the places they just came from.* But you, Eric, can stop this disaster before it even gets started.* Post photos of rainy, foggy days and pictures of boats being blown up onto the beach by fierce winds.* Emphasize the constant bear, cougar, and wolf attacks.* Talk up the plague of poisonous snakes and spiders.* Don't worry if your island doesn't have any cougars, wolves, snakes, or spiders--- the people in California, etc. don't know that.* Convince your town council or whatever passes for local government up there to pass ordanances against fast food outlets.* Here's a hint--- you can't outlaw a business, but you can outlaw the things that make that business possible.* So put a one-inch size restriction on billboards and neon signs and outlaw paper cups with promotional graphics on them (this can be couched as an environmental protection law), and outlaw serving food in paper bags (for health reasons).

Be creative.* You and your fellow Thorne Bay residents can stop this if you start making an effort now.* To take the position that "tourists will never come here" has been the doom of countless communities.* We moved to Honolulu in 1955.* Hardly any tourists, only three hotels in Waikiki, no high rises, no shopping malls, etc.* Now look at the place.* Or Victoria, BC.* Used to be a little slice of England.* Now it's a growing, screwed up town with sewage problems.* Or my original home town of Sausalito in California.* When we lived there it was a fishing town with a* freight yard for the Northwestern Pacific Railroad and a handful of artists and writers (including my dad).* Visit Sausalito today.* I suspect McDonalds charges $352.98 for a quarter-pounder with cheese because the average resident won't't blink twice at that price.

So don't hide your head in the sand in denial that development and Californication will ever come to Thorne Bay.* You keep promoting it like you do and the influx will start.* It will start slowly, like our friend Mark with his new Coot moving there.* He's already declared his desire to have a Carl's Jr. wherever he lives, so there's your clue.* He'll move there, tell his friends, a few of them will move there, the Carl's Jr. will go up, and the snowball will be headed down the mountain and nobody will be able to stop it.

Be afraid, Eric, be very afraid.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 9th of October 2010 10:53:25 AM
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:33 AM   #44
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

Gee, southeast Alaska being over-run by immigrants!?* You're kidding. *The population has been in general decline, paralleling the fortunes of the mining, fishing, and lumbering industries.* For example, the population of Thorne Bay declined nearly 75 percent*and Ketchikan declined 11 percent in the last 20 years.* Without tourism, more residents would leave.

I can see why many wouldn't want to live in a community regularly visited by cruise ships.* Those "cruisers" are like a wave washing over*the community.* For instance, last time I visited Ketchikan (July 2010), there were at least six cruise ships, so many our ship had to anchor out.* That's about 12,000 tourists visiting a town of 7400.* Regardless, the tourist season is short and brings in the bulk of the income.*

On my last Alaskan cruise, I only got off the ship once since I already had visited the ports of call several times before.* The exception was Haines (three times the population of Thorne Bay) where cruise ships rarely visit.* After an hour or so, one has seen it all.* (No, I didn't visit the hammer museum.)





The photo includes the Fort Seward part of Haines.* The commercial district is to the right, off the picture.

Bears?* Alaska is overrun with bears.* In some areas it is getting hard for subsistence hunters to*make their living*because they are in direct competition with bears.* Alaska is now considering whether to permit bear trapping because hunting hasn't brought the population under control.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:29 PM   #45
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

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markpierce wrote:

Gee, southeast Alaska being over-run by immigrants!?* You're kidding. *The population has been in general decline, paralleling the fortunes of the mining, fishing, and lumbering industries.
While this discussion has been, at least on my part, somewhat in jest, I think your belief that because the local population in SE Alaska has been declining means the area will never attract people is misplaced.* A great example in my area is the Okanagan region, which is the region immediately east of the Cascade range up near the Canadian border.* This area used to be primarily cattle and orchards and still is to some degree.* For decades it has been stagnant if not in decline in terms of population and growth.

Then it was "discovered" by retirees and people with enough money to comute between the area and cities like Seattle and Portland.* A good friend who used to be a pilot for Kenmore Air and who is from the Okanagan area is a builder.* The last decade or so has seen a massive increase in his and other contractors' and builders' business as the demand for homes had gone through the roof, so to speak.* Had you predicted this sort of thing back in the 1980s to the peolpe of Okanagan, Tonasket, etc. you 'd have been laughed out of town.* Now there are more and more people regretting that their area has been discovered.

A similar story, albeit not as dramatic, has occurred out on the Olympic Pennisula in the Sequim-Port Angeles area.* This area, too, has been discovered by retirees and business people who can comute to Seattle or whose work can be done remotely.* Interestingly one of the groups of retirees that got the migration to the area started is airline pilots.* The Sequim region sits at the base of, and thus in the rain shadow of, the Olympic Mountains.* Pilots beginning approaches to Seatac began to notice on days when the Puget Sound area was socked in solid, there was often a clear, sunny hole over Sequim.* So attracted by the PNW in general, they began to build homes in Sequim and the surrounding region.

All it takes is for a location to suddenly have appeal to people, and the migration and development begins.* And this growth is amost always independent of what developed the town or region in the first place--- the mining, logging, ranching, fishing, farming, etc.* So the fact that the traditional businesses in SE Alaska are in decline and have been for a long time is irrelevant to the potential for development.* The people who decide to move there will be like yourself--- the place has appeal as a place to live, but you will not be dependent upon the local fishing or logging industry to survive.* You just want to live in what to you is a neat place.* And more and more peolpe don't have to "go to work" to go to work.* All they need is a fast internet and network connection.

If I did not have to work for a living right now, and if we had the money to be able to travel anywhere we wanted whenever we wanted, we would move to SE Alaska in a heartbeat.* I wouldn't want to have to make a living there (unless it was by writing or something that was not location-dependent) and I'd want to be able to get out whenever we felt like doing something different.* But as a home base, there's noplace better to our way of thinking.

And every boater I've met who has traveled to SE Alaska has expressed the same sentiment so you can bet there are many thousands of people who feel the same way.* The desire to live in SE Alaska is there.* All it will take is for something or someone to give the snowball a push.
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:45 PM   #46
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

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Interestingly one of the groups of retirees that got the migration to the area started is airline pilots.* The Sequim region sits at the base of, and thus in the rain shadow of, the Olympic Mountains.* Pilots beginning approaches to Seatac began to notice on days when the Puget Sound area was socked in solid, there was often a clear, sunny hole over Sequim.


I think you hit on one of main reasons places like Thorn Bay will be very slow to grow, the weather.* Here in Juneau it's blowing 50 in the harbor with heavy rain.* I think most folks in general can't take the weather for long.* If the sun came out here more, I think the population would follow, but global warming aside, the weather here can really suck.* Not to mention a real lack of jobs. By the way, that sunny hole over Sequim extends all the way to Anacortes, the main reason we bought a retirement home there...............Arctic Traveller

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Old 10-09-2010, 01:55 PM   #47
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

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Marin wrote:

While this discussion has been, at least on my part, somewhat in jest, ....
Ditto!

*
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:58 PM   #48
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

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Arctic Traveller wrote:By the way, that sunny hole over Sequim extends all the way to Anacortes, the main reason we bought a retirement home there...............Arctic Traveller
It includes the San Juan Islands, too.* The Gulf Islands, being farther north and more outside the rain shadow of the Olympics and the mountains on Vancouver Island, get somewhat more rain although in a hot, dry summer, fresh water in the Gulf Islands can start getting rationed.

We had that problem on the private island in the San Juans where we have property until we (the owners association) put in a desalinization plant, I believe the first one in the islands.* From going from starting to run out of wel water at the end of the summer, we went to* having more water year round than we knew what to do with.* The well became a reserve source and so far as I know has rarelyy been needed since.* The plant capacity has just been doubled to accomodate the additional houses that have been built over the last ten years or so.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:43 AM   #49
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RE: Thorne Bay winds

Artic Traveller,Can you check Lincoln Rock today? It's really howl'in here today. Just heard a tree fall.
It settles down to a 20-25 breeze and then * * rooaarr.
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