Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-22-2018, 05:44 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Madsion, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: On the Hook
Vessel Model: Four Winns Vista 378
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
Think I need to change plans

Hello fellow boaters,

I've barely posted since joining a couple years ago but read this forum almost daily. Learned a lot here and helped us narrow down the choices for the next boat. Thank you for the free education!

Some background...nearing retirement and looking for a summer liveaboard. We plan to sell our home so it would be the boat in the summer and RV snowbirds in the winter.

Currently have a 2006 Four Winns Vista 378 that we enjoy on Lake Michigan / Green Bay.

This is where my rant comes in. Our boat only has 300 hours on the gas engines. It is truly near showroom condition including the shiny gelcoat. It's in such good shape I would offer a warranty to a private buyer. We probably will end up selling for $125k to $130.

Purchasing the next boat (Trawler type) 45' to 52', we were hoping to stay under $200k. However, scouring Yachtworld and broker sites, it seems like anything under that price is 30+ years old, engine hours north of 4,000, outdated electronics, worn interiors and faded/caulky exteriors. Not understanding the high asking prices for most of these boats when compared to much newer express cruisers and motoryachts? End of rant, just had to vent because it has been very discouraging!

Thinking of changing plans to a cockpit motoryacht?
__________________
Advertisement

OntheHook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 06:01 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Florida
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 420AC Sea Ray
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 261
My 1998 Sea Ray 420 AC was listed at $170K and I got it for $120.

Deals are out there.
__________________

k9medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 06:27 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
ssobol's Avatar
 
City: Leesburg, VA
Country: United States
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by OntheHook View Post
... Purchasing the next boat (Trawler type) 45' to 52', we were hoping to stay under $200k. However, scouring Yachtworld and broker sites, it seems like anything under that price is 30+ years old, engine hours north of 4,000, outdated electronics, worn interiors and faded/caulky exteriors. Not understanding the high asking prices for most of these boats when compared to much newer express cruisers and motoryachts? End of rant, just had to vent because it has been very discouraging! ...
First bigger is just more expensive (more materials, more labor). However, a lot of it has to due with production volume. As size goes up, volume goes down.

There are a lot more 38 foot boats than 50 footers.

Also, the cost of making anything was less 30+ years ago. Take any of the 30 year old boats you are looking and figure out how much it would cost to make a brand new one now. US inflation will double the price of something in the last 30 years. A $200k boat in 1988 would be $426k now just from inflation.
ssobol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 07:01 PM   #4
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 15,146
So, where do you intend to boat? If where you currently live, I don't see why one would choose a trawler. Their advantages don't really come into play. Plenty of choices from Sea Ray, Carver, Marquis and all the other popular boats in the area.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 07:04 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
TugYacht_33's Avatar
 
City: Fayetteville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mhyzhen
Vessel Model: Custom 33' Glen-L design "union jack"
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 81
i kind of have to lean with the OP on this "rant"

all things being the same except for maybe a second engine, bigger windlass, extra staterooms etc....

does an extra 20 feet and maybe 2 feet of beam warrant a difference of 300,000 dollars between a 30 foot boat and a 50 footer?
__________________
"busted knuckles"..... one more and i will have a complete set !
TugYacht_33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 07:09 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
TugYacht_33's Avatar
 
City: Fayetteville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mhyzhen
Vessel Model: Custom 33' Glen-L design "union jack"
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
So, where do you intend to boat? If where you currently live, I don't see why one would choose a trawler. Their advantages don't really come into play. Plenty of choices from Sea Ray, Carver, Marquis and all the other popular boats in the area.
im sorry, but that is like asking a truck guy why doesnt he just buy a subaru to play around in on the weekends
__________________
"busted knuckles"..... one more and i will have a complete set !
TugYacht_33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 07:25 PM   #7
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,099
If you end up looking on Yachtworld, don't limit your geographical choices. Expand them a bit and you might find the boat you're looking for. We did that and found our boat in the Detroit area. That would be a great cruise if you found your dream boat in Detroit and cruised it up Lake Huron, through the Straits and then home.


Good luck with your search.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 08:19 PM   #8
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 15,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TugYacht_33 View Post
im sorry, but that is like asking a truck guy why doesnt he just buy a subaru to play around in on the weekends
Except the OP isn't a truck guy and not in truck country.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 09:48 PM   #9
Member
 
City: Madsion, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: On the Hook
Vessel Model: Four Winns Vista 378
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
But BandB I am a truck guy, F350 crew cab long box to pull the 5th wheel
Also to your earlier comment, yes our future cruising will probably be limited to the Great Lakes. In particular, circumnavigate Lake Superior. The remote eastern shore has limited services and fuel stops. Thought a trawler would be perfect due to smaller more efficient engines and larger fuel tanks. Range is a problem with our current boat.

GFC, it would be great to find a fresh water, low hour trawler in my area but there aren't many on the market. I've been looking alone the eastern coast, florida and the Gulf. So far I've made two trips to the gulf region looking at available boats. Half a loop to get her home would be a fun trip!
OntheHook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 10:42 PM   #10
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 15,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by OntheHook View Post
But BandB I am a truck guy, F350 crew cab long box to pull the 5th wheel
Also to your earlier comment, yes our future cruising will probably be limited to the Great Lakes. In particular, circumnavigate Lake Superior. The remote eastern shore has limited services and fuel stops. Thought a trawler would be perfect due to smaller more efficient engines and larger fuel tanks. Range is a problem with our current boat.

GFC, it would be great to find a fresh water, low hour trawler in my area but there aren't many on the market. I've been looking alone the eastern coast, florida and the Gulf. So far I've made two trips to the gulf region looking at available boats. Half a loop to get her home would be a fun trip!
There are a lot of boats in between. All the tug brands, Mainship, some of the Sea Rays and Carvers. They can also be run slow to obtain the efficiency and better range, although not matching trawlers. With your limited season, fuel savings are going to be of limited value, taking a long time to recoup the up front cost. A lot of Grand Banks that could fit your needs.

Don't lock yourself in to a particular boat or type of boat, just find the one that best meets your needs. All boats are a compromise. By loosening up and not insisting on a "trawler", however one defines that, you give yourself more options.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 03:46 AM   #11
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by TugYacht_33 View Post
i kind of have to lean with the OP on this "rant"

all things being the same except for maybe a second engine, bigger windlass, extra staterooms etc....

does an extra 20 feet and maybe 2 feet of beam warrant a difference of 300,000 dollars between a 30 foot boat and a 50 footer?
To some, yes.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 06:59 AM   #12
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,984
To the OP: Yes, the reality is that the economy is doing much better with the stock market, real estate and used boats going up in value. This is supply and demand after an 8 year depressed market.

Great Lakes are a wonderful area to cruise. Spent last summer up there including 8 weeks on Lake Superior. While my trawler did very well up there, other types would work equally well. Saw a number of big Meridian /Bayliners up there that people seemed quite happy with. Lots of big sailboats up there also. Having sails doesn't obligate you to use them. For some perspective on used boat prices, go price equivalent new ones. A 25' center console can run $200K.

Tef
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 07:08 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
City: Washington
Country: US
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 467
A 45' to 52' trawler is a big boat. It is (was) expensive to build. It's also going to be expensive to store, maintain and operate. A low initial price won't mean much when you look for a slip or go to the fuel dock.

Boating is not an inexpensive hobby. You have to pay to play.

My suggestion is to evaluate your needs vs. your wants. Many people do just fine with trawlers in the 30' range.
aboatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 07:46 AM   #14
Guru
 
Seevee's Avatar
 
City: st pete
Country: usa
Vessel Model: 400 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,420
I kinda agree with OnTheHook a bit, too. There seems to be a bit of disparage with the price of trawlers vs. motor yachts and cruisers. Seems like the trawlers are a bit harder to find. However, not impossible.

If looking for a specific boat, there's a though to write to everyone that owns that particular boat. Although there's some work involved, you can get owners names from the state it's registered in and just mail letters. I've done that a few times with excellent success. It's surprising to find there are a ton of owners "getting ready" to sell, but haven't listed their boat yet, and often there's a good deal waiting. You become a quick and easy solution to their problem
__________________
Seevee
Seevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 07:51 AM   #15
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 17,839
" outdated electronics,"

Most electronics are "outdated" sometime between purchase and instalation.

Old items like autopilots are still on board because the still WORK!

A summer only boat need not be very large unless you are purchasing it to play hotel for guests.

35 ft does fine , especially when heat or air cond are not required and you can spend time outside.

Why change boats anyway , just to have a "trawler" style?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 08:08 AM   #16
Guru
 
Seevee's Avatar
 
City: st pete
Country: usa
Vessel Model: 400 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
" outdated electronics,"

Most electronics are "outdated" sometime between purchase and instalation.

Old items like autopilots are still on board because the still WORK!

A summer only boat need not be very large unless you are purchasing it to play hotel for guests.

35 ft does fine , especially when heat or air cond are not required and you can spend time outside.

Why change boats anyway , just to have a "trawler" style?
FF,

Good point, but there are some big advantages to trawler style. For starters, they are significantly cheaper to operate (with diesel) than a 38ft gas boat, probably half as much. I went thru that with my 31 ft gas boat which cost double the operating cost of my 40 ft. trawler. Then there's often better space arrangements in the trawler, but perhaps not huge. And you can get a "fast" trawler in one wants more speed (at a price). Plus I think they just look cool.
__________________
Seevee
Seevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 08:11 AM   #17
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 15,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seevee View Post
FF,

Good point, but there are some big advantages to trawler style. For starters, they are significantly cheaper to operate (with diesel) than a 38ft gas boat, probably half as much.
And at 300 hours over 11 years, does that even matter?
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 09:04 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
City: Florida
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 420AC Sea Ray
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 261
Deals are out there -

My buddy bought a 2000 Carver 355 last year for $35,000. The boat was gas but it was in great shape. Comparable prices were in the $70's.

You can buy a lot of gas with the savings.
k9medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2018, 09:44 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 17,839
"they are significantly cheaper to operate (with diesel) than a 38ft gas boat, probably half as much."

This is only true if maint , oil changes , filters and repair parts are not counted , and the gasser is operated well above trawler speeds.

Operate at the Sq RT of the LWL for speed in Knots as many trawlers do (-30-50 hp) and gas is cheap to keep.

A vacuum gauge is a great help on a gasser , to stay below the secondaries opening , if you want to go a bit faster.

"Plus I think they just look cool."

Ego is expensive ,

A $4.00 spark plug vs a $75 injector rebuild , the requirement for super cleaned diesel fuel and the ease of repair make the seasonal or annual cost of diesels at least on par with gas.

Now if you run 200 -300+ days a year the diesel will have an advantage in fuel cost , and the higher repair PM costs can be OK.

At local cruising 200 hours a year many times a gas boat is a far better buy , the difference in interest on a loan may pay for all summers cruise
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2018, 10:15 AM   #20
Guru
 
Donna's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 944
Engine hours on a diesel and engine hours in gas are WAY different. Think of it like diesels are tanks and gas is a car. However, either one must be properly maintained. I have had both. Given the choice, I would never own gas again.
__________________

Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012