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Old 01-22-2018, 05:44 PM   #1
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Think I need to change plans

Hello fellow boaters,

I've barely posted since joining a couple years ago but read this forum almost daily. Learned a lot here and helped us narrow down the choices for the next boat. Thank you for the free education!

Some background...nearing retirement and looking for a summer liveaboard. We plan to sell our home so it would be the boat in the summer and RV snowbirds in the winter.

Currently have a 2006 Four Winns Vista 378 that we enjoy on Lake Michigan / Green Bay.

This is where my rant comes in. Our boat only has 300 hours on the gas engines. It is truly near showroom condition including the shiny gelcoat. It's in such good shape I would offer a warranty to a private buyer. We probably will end up selling for $125k to $130.

Purchasing the next boat (Trawler type) 45' to 52', we were hoping to stay under $200k. However, scouring Yachtworld and broker sites, it seems like anything under that price is 30+ years old, engine hours north of 4,000, outdated electronics, worn interiors and faded/caulky exteriors. Not understanding the high asking prices for most of these boats when compared to much newer express cruisers and motoryachts? End of rant, just had to vent because it has been very discouraging!

Thinking of changing plans to a cockpit motoryacht?
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:01 PM   #2
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My 1998 Sea Ray 420 AC was listed at $170K and I got it for $120.

Deals are out there.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:27 PM   #3
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... Purchasing the next boat (Trawler type) 45' to 52', we were hoping to stay under $200k. However, scouring Yachtworld and broker sites, it seems like anything under that price is 30+ years old, engine hours north of 4,000, outdated electronics, worn interiors and faded/caulky exteriors. Not understanding the high asking prices for most of these boats when compared to much newer express cruisers and motoryachts? End of rant, just had to vent because it has been very discouraging! ...
First bigger is just more expensive (more materials, more labor). However, a lot of it has to due with production volume. As size goes up, volume goes down.

There are a lot more 38 foot boats than 50 footers.

Also, the cost of making anything was less 30+ years ago. Take any of the 30 year old boats you are looking and figure out how much it would cost to make a brand new one now. US inflation will double the price of something in the last 30 years. A $200k boat in 1988 would be $426k now just from inflation.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:01 PM   #4
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So, where do you intend to boat? If where you currently live, I don't see why one would choose a trawler. Their advantages don't really come into play. Plenty of choices from Sea Ray, Carver, Marquis and all the other popular boats in the area.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:04 PM   #5
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i kind of have to lean with the OP on this "rant"

all things being the same except for maybe a second engine, bigger windlass, extra staterooms etc....

does an extra 20 feet and maybe 2 feet of beam warrant a difference of 300,000 dollars between a 30 foot boat and a 50 footer?
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:09 PM   #6
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So, where do you intend to boat? If where you currently live, I don't see why one would choose a trawler. Their advantages don't really come into play. Plenty of choices from Sea Ray, Carver, Marquis and all the other popular boats in the area.
im sorry, but that is like asking a truck guy why doesnt he just buy a subaru to play around in on the weekends
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:25 PM   #7
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If you end up looking on Yachtworld, don't limit your geographical choices. Expand them a bit and you might find the boat you're looking for. We did that and found our boat in the Detroit area. That would be a great cruise if you found your dream boat in Detroit and cruised it up Lake Huron, through the Straits and then home.


Good luck with your search.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:19 PM   #8
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im sorry, but that is like asking a truck guy why doesnt he just buy a subaru to play around in on the weekends
Except the OP isn't a truck guy and not in truck country.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:48 PM   #9
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But BandB I am a truck guy, F350 crew cab long box to pull the 5th wheel
Also to your earlier comment, yes our future cruising will probably be limited to the Great Lakes. In particular, circumnavigate Lake Superior. The remote eastern shore has limited services and fuel stops. Thought a trawler would be perfect due to smaller more efficient engines and larger fuel tanks. Range is a problem with our current boat.

GFC, it would be great to find a fresh water, low hour trawler in my area but there aren't many on the market. I've been looking alone the eastern coast, florida and the Gulf. So far I've made two trips to the gulf region looking at available boats. Half a loop to get her home would be a fun trip!
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:42 PM   #10
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But BandB I am a truck guy, F350 crew cab long box to pull the 5th wheel
Also to your earlier comment, yes our future cruising will probably be limited to the Great Lakes. In particular, circumnavigate Lake Superior. The remote eastern shore has limited services and fuel stops. Thought a trawler would be perfect due to smaller more efficient engines and larger fuel tanks. Range is a problem with our current boat.

GFC, it would be great to find a fresh water, low hour trawler in my area but there aren't many on the market. I've been looking alone the eastern coast, florida and the Gulf. So far I've made two trips to the gulf region looking at available boats. Half a loop to get her home would be a fun trip!
There are a lot of boats in between. All the tug brands, Mainship, some of the Sea Rays and Carvers. They can also be run slow to obtain the efficiency and better range, although not matching trawlers. With your limited season, fuel savings are going to be of limited value, taking a long time to recoup the up front cost. A lot of Grand Banks that could fit your needs.

Don't lock yourself in to a particular boat or type of boat, just find the one that best meets your needs. All boats are a compromise. By loosening up and not insisting on a "trawler", however one defines that, you give yourself more options.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TugYacht_33 View Post
i kind of have to lean with the OP on this "rant"

all things being the same except for maybe a second engine, bigger windlass, extra staterooms etc....

does an extra 20 feet and maybe 2 feet of beam warrant a difference of 300,000 dollars between a 30 foot boat and a 50 footer?
To some, yes.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:59 AM   #12
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To the OP: Yes, the reality is that the economy is doing much better with the stock market, real estate and used boats going up in value. This is supply and demand after an 8 year depressed market.

Great Lakes are a wonderful area to cruise. Spent last summer up there including 8 weeks on Lake Superior. While my trawler did very well up there, other types would work equally well. Saw a number of big Meridian /Bayliners up there that people seemed quite happy with. Lots of big sailboats up there also. Having sails doesn't obligate you to use them. For some perspective on used boat prices, go price equivalent new ones. A 25' center console can run $200K.

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Old 01-23-2018, 07:08 AM   #13
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A 45' to 52' trawler is a big boat. It is (was) expensive to build. It's also going to be expensive to store, maintain and operate. A low initial price won't mean much when you look for a slip or go to the fuel dock.

Boating is not an inexpensive hobby. You have to pay to play.

My suggestion is to evaluate your needs vs. your wants. Many people do just fine with trawlers in the 30' range.
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:46 AM   #14
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I kinda agree with OnTheHook a bit, too. There seems to be a bit of disparage with the price of trawlers vs. motor yachts and cruisers. Seems like the trawlers are a bit harder to find. However, not impossible.

If looking for a specific boat, there's a though to write to everyone that owns that particular boat. Although there's some work involved, you can get owners names from the state it's registered in and just mail letters. I've done that a few times with excellent success. It's surprising to find there are a ton of owners "getting ready" to sell, but haven't listed their boat yet, and often there's a good deal waiting. You become a quick and easy solution to their problem
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:51 AM   #15
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" outdated electronics,"

Most electronics are "outdated" sometime between purchase and instalation.

Old items like autopilots are still on board because the still WORK!

A summer only boat need not be very large unless you are purchasing it to play hotel for guests.

35 ft does fine , especially when heat or air cond are not required and you can spend time outside.

Why change boats anyway , just to have a "trawler" style?
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:08 AM   #16
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" outdated electronics,"

Most electronics are "outdated" sometime between purchase and instalation.

Old items like autopilots are still on board because the still WORK!

A summer only boat need not be very large unless you are purchasing it to play hotel for guests.

35 ft does fine , especially when heat or air cond are not required and you can spend time outside.

Why change boats anyway , just to have a "trawler" style?
FF,

Good point, but there are some big advantages to trawler style. For starters, they are significantly cheaper to operate (with diesel) than a 38ft gas boat, probably half as much. I went thru that with my 31 ft gas boat which cost double the operating cost of my 40 ft. trawler. Then there's often better space arrangements in the trawler, but perhaps not huge. And you can get a "fast" trawler in one wants more speed (at a price). Plus I think they just look cool.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:11 AM   #17
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FF,

Good point, but there are some big advantages to trawler style. For starters, they are significantly cheaper to operate (with diesel) than a 38ft gas boat, probably half as much.
And at 300 hours over 11 years, does that even matter?
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:04 AM   #18
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Deals are out there -

My buddy bought a 2000 Carver 355 last year for $35,000. The boat was gas but it was in great shape. Comparable prices were in the $70's.

You can buy a lot of gas with the savings.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:44 AM   #19
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"they are significantly cheaper to operate (with diesel) than a 38ft gas boat, probably half as much."

This is only true if maint , oil changes , filters and repair parts are not counted , and the gasser is operated well above trawler speeds.

Operate at the Sq RT of the LWL for speed in Knots as many trawlers do (-30-50 hp) and gas is cheap to keep.

A vacuum gauge is a great help on a gasser , to stay below the secondaries opening , if you want to go a bit faster.

"Plus I think they just look cool."

Ego is expensive ,

A $4.00 spark plug vs a $75 injector rebuild , the requirement for super cleaned diesel fuel and the ease of repair make the seasonal or annual cost of diesels at least on par with gas.

Now if you run 200 -300+ days a year the diesel will have an advantage in fuel cost , and the higher repair PM costs can be OK.

At local cruising 200 hours a year many times a gas boat is a far better buy , the difference in interest on a loan may pay for all summers cruise
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:15 AM   #20
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Engine hours on a diesel and engine hours in gas are WAY different. Think of it like diesels are tanks and gas is a car. However, either one must be properly maintained. I have had both. Given the choice, I would never own gas again.
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