Thick!

[BandB]

But Dusky (name of boat I assume) still does very very well at coastal cruising as well as passage making but an equal quality coastal cruiser would be lighter and better in most all ways I'm think'in. In this game one tends to think "the heavier the better" but I think as long as it's heavy enough any more weight is a bad thing ... absolutly undesirable.

Dusky isn't the name of a boat. Dusky is a brand of boat. He's not talking about his Nordhavn. He's talking about his tender. Dusky isn't by any means a passage maker or a coastal cruiser. It's a tender and a play boat.

 

[N4712]

That's been my experience on my boat. The gel coat is too thick!

(Edit) The photos don't show the "spiders" in the radii of the glass.

We actually have the same problem with the Nordhavn too. None of it is structural but they do get annoying to look at. Our boat was an early hull that may have contributed to that but I'm not quite sure.

 

[FF]

Weight in the hull is always an acceptable trade as the boats longevity is determined by stiffness.

The formula 3 hp per ton (2240 lbs) would suggest an extra that a few more layers of GRP between you and the ocean might only cost a few cents per hour at 15hp per gallon of fuel burn.

The 500 lb marble counter top (if you are not a chocolatier or pastery chief) might be a waste.

A ton or more of ballast to smooth the ride in big seas might make sense for the few boats that will ever go off the shelf.

Ballast is a waste in an alongshore cruiser.Shallow draft is more useful.

 

[eyschulman]

What argument( price aside) would be made about a NH that was 50,000lb lighter and stronger and less weight aloft, same layout ? back to the OP I merely point out that plug THICKNESS is not a reliable indicator of strength or build quality.

 

[psneeld]

What argument( price aside) would be made about a NH that was 50,000lb lighter and stronger and less weight aloft, same layout ? back to the OP I merely point out that plug THICKNESS is not a reliable indicator of strength or build quality.

This is classic.

If the hull was still a slow displacement....weight when punching through waves comes in handy. Sure theres the total energy question...but mass has its virtues sometimes.

Then the argument tat lighter could mean speed thus avoiding the worst of the weather.

There's many angles to this discussion and really most points to that have even made are only tiny pieces of the puzzle.Total design becomes a vicious circle....bigger, faster, more fuel, bigger engines more length, more speed, more fuel.... Assumptions made in a vacuum are meaningless.

I will admit that thick doesn't mean anything but clearing hole saws more.

 

[BandB]

What argument( price aside) would be made about a NH that was 50,000lb lighter and stronger and less weight aloft, same layout ? back to the OP I merely point out that plug THICKNESS is not a reliable indicator of strength or build quality.

You just described Nordhavn's Coastal Pilot, designed for Coastal cruising. I personally think a mistake on their part but we'll see. Nordhavn represents certain things and has an extremely loyal following. For them to stray from that would be an extremely dangerous move. I've seen many companies try to reposition themselves and most fail.

This isn't about making the perfect boat. This is about making a successful long lasting business which they've done, based on a very good boat that fit a market demand.

I'm not going to name a brand here but there is one that makes boats similarly sized to Nordhavn out of lighter materials and advertises them as worthy of crossing oceans. But most of them are not and they're definitely not as nice a boat as a Nordhavn. There are plenty of boats of different types appealing to different people. Nordhavn has no need to lighten their boat or make other significant changes.

I know you love your boat and I am very happy for you and respect that love. I know we own boats most here would hate and that's fair. But I ask you to consider this, how many Devlins are being produced and sold a year? My wife thinks manyboat's Willard is just the cutest coolest boat and it does what he wants extremely well. However, you don't see Willard's being built and sold at volume today. I find myself upset regularly when someone stops a product I loved. But it happens because the majority of people don't share my love. I very much respect your views and what you like but it's definitely not mainstream. Nordhavn has shown they know what they're doing and again I say this although I'm not a Nordhavn fan. But then if I set up to produce my ideal boat, I'd probably never sell one.

 

[HopCar]

I have a plug from Possum that looks thick and solid to me. I take comfort in it when I use my keel to plow a new channel.

I also have a plug a customer gave me from a big boat he was having built. It's more than two inches of solid glass. The hull is massive strong. A few years later the boat sank when it hit a rock and the shaft tunnel / skeg got knocked off. It was basically glued on with minimal mechanical fasteners. The boat was built by a respected left coast builder. You just never know.

When I was playing with race boats, the saying was "if it breaks make it stronger, if it doesn't break make it lighter."

Now I say if it breaks make it stronger and easier to get to!

 

[eyschulman]

.

I know you love your boat and I am very happy for you and respect that love. I know we own boats most here would hate and that's fair. But I ask you to consider this, how many Devlins are being produced and sold a year? My wife thinks manyboat's Willard is just the cutest coolest boat and it does what he wants extremely well. However, you don't see Willard's being built and sold at volume today. I find myself upset regularly when someone stops a product I loved. But it happens because the majority of people don't share my love. I very much respect your views and what you like but it's definitely not mainstream. Nordhavn has shown they know what they're doing and again I say this although I'm not a Nordhavn fan. But then if I set up to produce my ideal boat, I'd probably never sell one.

My Devlin is certainly not light displacement nor is it meant for crossing oceans. There is no way boats like mine are going to be produced in volume. Moon River was built to my very specific specifications as a complete one off which would not please most trawler owners nor would they be happy with the cost and major depreciation on taking ownership. I do not consider MR a trawler and do not attempt comparisons with a NH. I might compare a Flemming with NH for occasional open ocean use. If I spent most of the time crossing oceans I would give more weight to the NH if sail or a motor sailor were out of the picture.

 

[BandB]

Moon River was built to my very specific specifications as a complete one off which would not please most trawler owners nor would they be happy with the cost and major depreciation on taking ownership. .

That was the point. You have unique tastes that result in the precise boat you want. We don't have a Trawler either nor anything with a displacement hull. And we're too conservative to ever do a one off and unique boat like Devlin. I don't anticipate us ever building a fully custom boat. Ours, you can ride around Fort Lauderdale of most anywhere else and see the same models coming and going. Yours stands beautifully out in a crowd.

And the engineering masterpieces of long, skinny and light will remain one offs or nearly that. Nothing at all wrong with that. They just don't have mass appeal. I admire those with the patience to go through the process as well.

 

[BandB]

The hull is massive strong. A few years later the boat sank when it hit a rock and the shaft tunnel / skeg got knocked off. It was basically glued on with minimal mechanical fasteners. The boat was built by a respected left coast builder. You just never know.

Seldom is failure a hole in a hull and most of the time when it is, it wouldn't matter how well the hull was built. Too many other points of failure.

But it's like discussions of ocean worthiness. A lot more boats ocean capable than there are owners.

 

[angus99]

I'm replacing all the below-waterline through hulls/seacocks on Stella and measured 8/10 inch near the waterline. No coring, just glass mat/roving that gets progressively thicker as you move toward the keel. Another owner measured his hull at 1.25" at about 18" from the keel and I've heard anecdotes of 2" plus closer in.

Not saying this is stronger than a cored hull, but it feels like a tank. I do like the feeling of solidity and mass as we punch through waves on the bow.

The photo is before I cleaned up the hull penetrations.

 

[N4712]

I'm replacing all the below-waterline through hulls/seacocks on Stella and measured 8/10 inch near the waterline. No coring, just glass mat/roving that gets progressively thicker as you move toward the keel. Another owner measured his hull at 1.25" at about 18" from the keel and I've heard anecdotes of 2" plus closer in.



Not saying this is stronger than a cored hull, but it feels like a tank. I do like the feeling of solidity and mass as we punch through waves on the bow.



The photo is before I cleaned up the hull penetrations.

Nice!! I wish I would have thought to see how thick our hull was when we got our transducer put in.

 

[Codger2]

I do like the feeling of solidity and mass as we punch through waves on the bow.

ME too!

 

[psneeld]

Mine was over an inch thick near the keel...of course 6 foot by 6 foot area was hydrolyzed to the point of delamination as much as 1/2 inch thick.

Neither PO or surveyor knew it....

Makes you wonder....

Thick and poor construction doesn't mean much.

 

[eyschulman]

Mine was over an inch thick near the keel...of course 6 foot by 6 foot area was hydrolyzed to the point of delamination as much as 1/2 inch thick.

Neither PO or surveyor knew it....

Makes you wonder....

Thick and poor construction doesn't mean much.

This is exactly the point I wanted to make with my previous posts. THICK means very little it is the nature and quality of the plug that counts. Actually thick is sometimes in older boats an indicator of possible trouble because when the older boats were built knowledge about what makes a good lay up and the quality of materials available were not great so the common reaction was to make it thick and some of that THICK is not so good.

 

[N4712]

This is exactly the point I wanted to make with my previous posts. THICK means very little it is the nature and quality of the plug that counts. Actually thick is sometimes in older boats an indicator of possible trouble because when the older boats were built knowledge about what makes a good lay up and the quality of materials available were not great so the common reaction was to make it thick and some of that THICK is not so good.

Where do I boast the quality of the boat? I was just surprised by the thickness.

 

[eyschulman]

Where do I boast the quality of the boat? I was just surprised by the thickness.

My post is to point out that thickness may be of little significance for those who might think otherwise. Since you appear to know that ,the statement is preaching to the quire in your case, but there may be readers who were not aware. If you feel injured I am sorry it was not my intention.

 

[FlyWright]

Sorry, Ollie. You're in the wrong section. You want "Ain't My Boat Grand!" Section.

Hey, I'm impressed!! I think thick hulls are better than light hulls in a trawler. But that's just me...

Reminds me of a conversation with my boat's designer's son, Gil Marshall. His Dad was listening in on speakerphone from the other desk in the office. He said he was the bilge rat during the construction of my boat and remembered climbing through the hull during the very earliest construction of the 34 LRCs. It was one of the few trawlers of that day not built in Taiwan, but right here in California. He said they they were so new at fiberglass, that they seriously overbuilt the boat. Since I apparently have the first one, I kinda like that!

Since I have the small Perkins 85's, a heavy hull matters little in my speed. Maybe some of the later boats with 18-23 kt top speeds benefited from a lighter hull that's still bulletproof, but I like that I have lots of extra material between me and the cold waters.

 

[N4712]

Sorry, Ollie. You're in the wrong section. You want "Ain't My Boat Grand!" Section.

Hey, I'm impressed!! I think thick hulls are better than light hulls in a trawler. But that's just me...

Reminds me of a conversation with my boat's designer's son, Gil Marshall. His Dad was listening in on speakerphone from the other desk in the office. He said he was the bilge rat during the construction of my boat and remembered climbing through the hull during the very earliest construction of the 34 LRCs. It was one of the few trawlers of that day not built in Taiwan, but right here in California. He said they they were so new at fiberglass, that they seriously overbuilt the boat. Since I apparently have the first one, I kinda like that!

Since I have the small Perkins 85's, a heavy hull matters little in my speed. Maybe some of the later boats with 18-23 kt top speeds benefited from a lighter hull that's still bulletproof, but I like that I have lots of extra material between me and the cold waters.

With my heavy hull, I can slow down to 18 knots and plough through anything. The boat has been in some pretty rough stuff while we were towing it through the Bahamas.

As to the Nordhavn, I hear they're crazy over built p, but I haven't seen the thickness of the hull but from what I'm told it's a beast. It feels like one in the water, and when I run into rough stuff I appreciate the weight. It's also well built, and that's a fact Jack!

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Nomad Willy]

Al,
You and Oliver would get along well w my dad. He had a custom lobsterboat yacht built in Maine. The hull was magnificent .. all in Arix Foan sandwich construction.

He was on the phone telling the builder to make it skookum very often. Lots of things got made "Thicker" and many things got added. The anchor of course was a big Forfjord and power was a 6-71. One would think it would make 10 or 12 knots but in the end it was so heavy 9 knots was WOT.

Weight beyond what is needed is .... I'm looking for a nicer word. Not good?

 

[N4712]

Al,
You and Oliver would get along well w my dad. He had a custom lobsterboat yacht built in Maine. The hull was magnificent .. all in Arix Foan sandwich construction.

He was on the phone telling the builder to make it skookum very often. Lots of things got made "Thicker" and many things got added. The anchor of course was a big Forfjord and power was a 6-71. One would think it would make 10 or 12 knots but in the end it was so heavy 9 knots was WOT.

Weight beyond what is needed is .... I'm looking for a nicer word. Not good?

Well, I don't know if we'd get along if he isn't a Rocna man...

The word is overbuilt, for my type of trawler overbuilt isn't bad.

 

[FlyWright]

Al,
You and Oliver would get along well w my dad.

Well, I don't know if we'd get along

What kind of shoes did Dad wear, Eric?

 

[N4712]

What kind of shoes did Dad wear, Eric?

That's another thing I was going to ask.....