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Old 02-11-2015, 10:25 AM   #41
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She was remembering the fixer upper RV he bought years ago that sits immobile in the back yard and is home to wildlife. Meanwhile he was dreaming of warm seas, pretty women in bikinis and remote islands they would reach by boat.


The snow was up to the eaves of the house after the dark storms of the last three days. A great time for ruminating on the next chapter of their lives.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:39 PM   #42
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That is what an interactive forum is all about, i.e. "shared knowledge" is its highest calling... if you will.
Art-- Here is how I view it. I may respond to a question about how to best care for a teak deck, or what oil is best for an FL120, by stating what we do or what we have learned.

But in my very blunt opinion, I think anyone who takes my "advice" and acts on it without checking with a true expert-- a shipwright with a lot of experience with teak decks or a diesel shop with a lot of experience with FL120s-- is a fool.

Outside of its pure entertainment pastime value and opinions on fluff stuff like what's the best coffeemaker, the only value I think an internet forum has is what RTF said a few posts back about being a source for ideas that may be worth pursuing.

There is only one suggestion or piece of advice on TF that I can recall ever acting on, and that was to use GoJo as a cleaner for shorepower cords and fenders.

But for advice or recomendations or solutions to important questions or problems concerning our boat or boating, an internet forum is at the very bottom of our resource list.

If I want to know about taking a firearm into Canada, I call Canadian Customs directly. If I want to know the best way to overhaul the windows in our boat, I talk to or e-mail shipwrights with experience in overhauling the kind of windows we have. If we have questions about an unfamiliar new anchor type that we're interested in (which we had some years ago) we call the manufacture directly regardless of which country they happen to be in and put them on the spot about their product AND hunt down as many Independent user testimonials as we can find, either in person or on the internet.

The only boating forum we seek advice or solutions on is the Grand Banks owners forum because there are retired shipwrights and yard owners who participate who have forgotten more about GBs than I will ever know. But these are people whose credibility has been confirmed to us from sources outside the forum.

So, Art, if I post in answer to your question that we use Delo 400 30wt oil in our FL120s and we use Baldwin filters, don't YOU do that unless you confirm it with someone you KNOW has the experience and credibility to give you the correct information.

And yes, I know you don't have that type of engine so would not be asking my hypothetical question.

To relate this to the thread topic, I personally think the worst thing a boating newbie or wannabe can do is ask his "what kind of boat" or "what should I do" questions to a general boating forum. I think they should "call Canadian Customs" directly. Talk to brokers, walk the docks and talk to owners face to face. Talk to charter companies. Talk to friends who have boats. Talk to boatyards about specific types of boats they might be interested in. Talk to diesel shops about the pros and cons of such-and-such an engine.

A college professor once told the class I was in that the ONLY lasting value of an education is that it teaches you how to learn. In my opinion, if a person cannot figure out on his or her own how to get the best, most credible advice and accurate information on a particular activity--- boating in this case-- they'd be better off not attempting it at all.

My wife and I are considering buying a drift boat for fly fishing for steelhead. While I've been in a friend's drift boat several times, my wife and I know very little about them. There are dozens of manufactures, so which one to get? So we are driving to other states to visit drift boat companies. We are hanging out at river launches and pullouts talking to fishermen about their boats. We are reading testimonials from users about their particular boats. What we are NOT doing is asking an internet forum because we know what we'll get: a whole bunch of conflicting opinions and arguments from people whose credibility we cannot judge.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:24 AM   #43
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That's kind of how my divorce went. She got the house and I got the boat.
I have a friend who got divorced. He said he and his ex split the house. She got the inside, he got the outside!
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:40 AM   #44
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My wife and I are considering buying a drift boat for fly fishing for steelhead. While I've been in a friend's drift boat several times, my wife and I know very little about them. There are dozens of manufactures, so which one to get? So we are driving to other states to visit drift boat companies. We are hanging out at river launches and pullouts talking to fishermen about their boats. We are reading testimonials from users about their particular boats. What we are NOT doing is asking an internet forum because we know what we'll get: a whole bunch of conflicting opinions and arguments from people whose credibility we cannot judge.[/QUOTE]

Being a veteran Steelhead fly angler, I would definitely not buy a drift boat. Granted, they are much more popular in Wa., but most trips I've taken in a drift boat have shown me they are not very forgiving in lower water. 99% of the guides and regular anglers on Vancouver Island use river rafts. River rafts are a little more work to row, due to their less smooth undersides. They are however, much more easy to drag across bars, slide down steep banks, and drag up take-outs.
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Old 02-12-2015, 02:09 AM   #45
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99% of the guides and regular anglers on Vancouver Island use river rafts. .
Yes, and you want to know why? I just found out from a guide this weekend over on the Yakma River in eastern Washington. One, compared to a good drift boat, a raft is dirt cheap. When you're trying to make money, dirt cheap equipment is a good thing.

But the real reason rafts are popular with guides these days? Lawyers. Rafts are more stable than drift boats, they are less likely to tip over, and people are theoretically less likely to get hurt in them. Liability insurance is less expensive if you use a raft instead of a drift boat, thiis guide said, which is the primary reason he switched over a couple of years ago.

I don't have any interest in rafts for the same reason I have no interest in Bayliners. Aesthetically, they suck. (My opinion of course).

And on the rivers here, I see far more drift boats than rafts. So maybe rafts are a Vancouver Island thing. But I've always loved the lines of the McKenzie River boat, which is basically what a drift boat is, so that's what holds our interest.

Rafts are for wusses.

And lawyers.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:28 AM   #46
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PS- Rafts aren't really for wusses. I just have no interest in fishing from one.

As for the aesthetics of Bayliners, there is one I rather like the look of and that's the early 1980s 3888.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:44 AM   #47
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Humm... Interesting


Veteran Steelhead fly angler with many years experience providing opinion - vs - I'm not really sure, but think (sound like) I am; specifically mentioning about having spoken to one guide, i.e. Post 45: "Liability insurance is less expensive if you use a raft instead of a drift boat, this guide said, which is the primary reason he switched over a couple of years ago."


There is also an important reason then mentioned: "I don't have any interest in rafts for the same reason I have no interest in Bayliners. Aesthetically, they suck. (My opinion of course)."



I can see how by post 42 pointed at me... you feel that all of input on forums may be useless... I do not hold the same feeling at all. I agree some are useless/misleading; others are very close to correct and some spot-on. Forum readers (newbie or oldbie boaters) need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:59 AM   #48
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The problem as I see it is human nature. It is human nature to want to believe what sounds good, and what confirms preconceived opinions. A quote from Jack Nicholson, "you can't handle the truth".

We see it in our business. Many people that do what sounds good wind up with problems. We can't do anything about that. It is a free country, and they are over 21.

Boats, homes, or whatever the consumer cannot be saved from himself. Researching is of no value if good advice is ignored.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:05 AM   #49
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The problem as I see it is human nature. It is human nature to want to believe what sounds good, and what confirms preconceived opinions. A quote from Jack Nicholson, "you can't handle the truth".

We see it in our business. Many people that do what sounds good wind up with problems. We can't do anything about that. It is a free country, and they are over 21.

Boats, homes, or whatever the consumer cannot be saved from himself. Researching is of no value if good advice is ignored.
As I think Don implied, and, IMHO... that includes good advice on forums!
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:15 AM   #50
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I agree some are useless/misleading; others are very close to correct and some spot-on. Forum readers (newbie or oldbie boaters) need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Agreed but that may not be easy as many 30yr boaters only have 1yr experience repeated 30 times. They can spew out the lingo like "electrolysis", "osmosis", "grounded", "grounding" or bonding and 90% of the time on even this forum those words are used incorrectly. Sounds good to the newbie, not so easy to sort out.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:37 AM   #51
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Agreed but that may not be easy as many 30yr boaters only have 1yr experience repeated 30 times. They can spew out the lingo like "electrolysis", "osmosis", "grounded", "grounding" or bonding and 90% of the time on even this forum those words are used incorrectly. Sounds good to the newbie, not so easy to sort out.
True, True!

Remember, all newbies are/were pretty much exclusively dirt people! Don't be scared!!

They will either sink or swim... in Boat World.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:51 AM   #52
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"Exactly what you mention as knowledge gained by you is why boaters (newbies or otherwise) can ask questions on forums."

Even learning what questions to ask when researching further is valuable. Propeller pitch? Pink bronze? Through-hull fittings improperly replaced? My list of things to learn more about keeps growing, and in a way I'm glad I'm icebound on the hard now, because it's clear there's much to learn before seriously looking for a boat. I can't think of a better way to spend a snowy February day than drift netting through the trawler forum.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:07 AM   #53
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I have an example...I spent 1-2 years reading the internet and lurking around different sites to find the perfect sailboat. I came to a conclusion I needed a 40' heavy boat like Formosa. After much head scratching and wondering, a friend let me live on his Beautiful 40' Transworld (Taiwanese) for the winter while he was in Minnesota. I lived on that boat for 5 months then we attempted to sail it to the Bahamas. After living on that boat for 5 months and cruising, I changed my whole thought process and ended up purchasing our Hatteras power boat. I could tell you the whole story but dont want to bore everyone, but the moral of the story is sometimes you just need to experience living on the boat to see what its all about. I am now trying to sell the hatteras and buy a sailboat for extended cruising, but it wont be a Transworld or Formosa. No amount of internet surfing or book reading could have taught me what I learned in those 5 months.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:09 AM   #54
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Yes, and you want to know why? I just found out from a guide this weekend over on the Yakma River in eastern Washington. One, compared to a good drift boat, a raft is dirt cheap. When you're trying to make money, dirt cheap equipment is a good thing.

But the real reason rafts are popular with guides these days? Lawyers. Rafts are more stable than drift boats, they are less likely to tip over, and people are theoretically less likely to get hurt in them. Liability insurance is less expensive if you use a raft instead of a drift boat, thiis guide said, which is the primary reason he switched over a couple of years ago.

I don't have any interest in rafts for the same reason I have no interest in Bayliners. Aesthetically, they suck. (My opinion of course).

And on the rivers here, I see far more drift boats than rafts. So maybe rafts are a Vancouver Island thing. But I've always loved the lines of the McKenzie River boat, which is basically what a drift boat is, so that's what holds our interest.

Rafts are for wusses.

And lawyers.
All boils down to how and where you fish. You would not get a drift boat on a trailer to many of the put-ins in the island. Rafts ride on the box rails of 4x4 pickups. We don't fish much from rafts here. Rafts are merely the conveyance to get from pool to pool, where we then fish from shore. Not sure what type of raft you are referring to when you say they are dirt cheap, a few of my friends own them. A properly outfitted river raft ( new) can cost a chunk of change
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:46 AM   #55
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... PS- Rafts aren't really for wusses. I just have no interest in fishing from one.

...
All of my guided small-boat river trips (American, Salmon, and San Juan rivers) have been on rubber rafts, and I don't fish. They are easy to load/unload and generally forgiving when striking rocks, as well being stable.

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Old 02-12-2015, 11:14 AM   #56
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But in my very blunt opinion, I think anyone who takes my "advice" and acts on it without checking with a true expert-- a shipwright with a lot of experience with teak decks or a diesel shop with a lot of experience with FL120s-- is a fool.
If you add a few basic ingredients I think forums can be a good source of information.

1-Trust but verify

2-consider the source--sometimes the "opinion" provides the source of the information-the experienced diesel mechanic, boatyard owner, etc. Much more efficient than spending a year going from boat yard to boatyard.
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Old 02-12-2015, 11:29 AM   #57
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Is a "shipwright" a "licensed" or "certified" profession?

They are few and far between where I am from it seems. I have only met one that called himself one in 50 years of boating along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards.
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Old 02-12-2015, 11:31 AM   #58
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Is a "shipwright" a "licensed" or "certified" profession?

They are few and far between where I am from it seems. I have only met one that called himself one in 50 years of boating along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards.
No, no license or certification. It is a self appointed title like Master Marine Surveyor. Shipwright was once a rank in the British Navy.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:44 PM   #59
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If you add a few basic ingredients I think forums can be a good source of information.

1-Trust but verify
Ding Ding Ding We have a winner IMO of course

There's a lot of folks with a lot of experience here on this forum and elsewhere. Verifying recommendations pre dates the internet by a few thousand years.

Example, as moderators our responsibilities are to make sure the forum rules are adhered to and the place maintains a friendly atmosphere. We generally keep a fairly loose hand on the reins. More importantly though is knowing what we are not responsible for. We do not nor will not fact check posts, we are not the truth police. Never have been nor ever will be.

Some of the biggest pissing matches we have had privately with members is when member "A" thinks we should delete or edit member "B's" remarks because "A" claims "B's" information to be factually untrue or misleading. This can be an issue in the member classified ads too when someone thinks a member is asking a high price for what is essentially junk.

What web forums are really good at is reaching a large cross section of folks with varying opinions in a very short time. Sifting through and amalgamating large amounts of information is what computers and places like this forum where designed for. Once the questioner has read the responses it is that questioners responsibility to vet out the replies. If it is a classified ad it is the buyers responsibility to figure out if it is a good deal or they are being hosed.
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Old 02-12-2015, 02:07 PM   #60
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All boils down to how and where you fish. You would not get a drift boat on a trailer to many of the put-ins in the island.

That may be but we won't be fishing on Vancouver Island. The rivers we fish are relatively large and the shorelines and bars are rough and rocky and sharp and would reduce a raft to ribbons in short order. The fishing is divided between shore and standing in the boat, depending on the location.

And as stated earlier, we have zero interest in rafts. One of our reasons for getting a drift boat is to learn the skill of navigating a drift boat down a river. It's something I've always wanted to do. We also want a boat we can take fishing in rougher water on large lakes with motor power.

This is as far as we shoud take this subject. I brought up the drift boat thing not to start a discussion on them but to illustrate what I feel is the most effective way to get valid, credible information. And to me, an internet forum is not it.

Which is why, other than a query some years ago for user experience with a particular plotter, I never ask for advice on this forum regarding important boat issues. We have long since learned we can get the right answer from the network of known and credible sources we have built and continue to build in this area a whole lot faster. When I want an answer to a question, whether it's how do I get ground transport for me and my crew to such-and-such a location in China or what is the best exhaust system for the engines in our boat, I want a right answer right away. I'm not interested in wading through a bunch of guesses and speculation and opinions from peopke who I have no way of knowing if they snow what I'm looking for.

Sone people love the back-and-forth and endless discussion about this, that, or the other. I do too, sometimes, when i have the time or the mood strikes. But when it's important, I have no interest in screwing around.
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