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Old 09-24-2011, 06:48 AM   #41
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Upper or Lower Helm

Love TF. Keep OTDE, but I rarely visit it.

Would rather not know the political persuasions of my friends here.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:02 AM   #42
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

driver* or* 1 iron
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:20 AM   #43
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Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
KJ wrote:
driver* or* 1 iron
*For the ultimate*lightning protection, tie a 1 iron to the top of your mast or highest point of the boat.


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Saturday 24th of September 2011 12:03:18 PM
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:31 AM   #44
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Betty or Wilma?

Mary Ann or Ginger?
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:33 AM   #45
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
timjet wrote:


Would rather not know the political persuasions of my friends here.
*I agree!! *

Why do we come to a trawler forum? * To talk about "US politics?" *I'm sure it must be very entertaining for our friends and members from Canada, down under, the UK, etc. who could care less.**You don't see any posts on here about David Cameron, Stephen Harper or Julia Gillard? *

If its politics related to boating, ok, that's fine. *But the bickering and the hard feelings caused within the group by each side trashing the others political party and personal political rhetoric is counter productive. *

Does it really have to take place here?
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:06 PM   #46
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
Edelweiss wrote:timjet wrote:


Would rather not know the political persuasions of my friends here.
*I agree!! *

Why do we come to a trawler forum? * To talk about "US politics?" *I'm sure it must be very entertaining for our friends and members from Canada, down under, the UK, etc. who could care less.**You don't see any posts on here about David Cameron, Stephen Harper or Julia Gillard? *

If its politics related to boating, ok, that's fine. *But the bickering and the hard feelings caused within the group by each side trashing the others political party and personal political rhetoric is counter productive. *

Does it really have to take place here?

*As a Canadian I couldn't agree more, which is why I stay out of the OTDE, which I'm sure could be a source of good humour otherwise.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:21 PM   #47
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Is TF still a boating forum?

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Edelweiss wrote:
Quote:
*But the bickering and the hard feelings caused within the group by each side trashing the others political party and personal political rhetoric is counter productive.* __________________________________________________ _______________
Quote:
I've given considerable thought to this matter in the last few weeks and have concluded that I'm in agreement with the above statement. We have lost some really neat people in the past few years because of the OTDE. RT Firefly comes to mind as a guy with a great sense of humor and wit. Others, such as Marin & RickB,* have taken a break from this Forum to recharge their batteries & reduce their frustration levels caused by a lot of misinformation (and there is a lot of it!) posted here by well intended but misinformed members. Some of it has been downright dangerous!
Quote:
Some on this forum, who I know personally, have refused to take part in the fray as they know it's an exercise in futility & there's no winning. So why get your undies in a knot?
Quote:
Nope, the argument of the OTDE being a valued pressure relief valve is not a valid one! IMHO, of course.
-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Saturday 24th of September 2011 12:23:40 PM
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:45 PM   #48
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:
Second, I have a window on which Forumites I will even bother to read comments from about actual "boating items". There are such vial and idiotic statements made in the OTDE, that I would make sure I walked on the other side of the street if I had the bad fortune of crossing paths with some of the respondents.
*See, now to ME that is a rock solid reason to do away with it. I too find statements made there vial and insulting, but I do not want them to in any way influence the way I respond to people on the boating side. If you really are steered in the boat forums by the actions in OTDE, then I am hurt. But like I said, it is THE REASON to shut it down.

*** OPINION FOLLOW *** It's my understanding that Marin has toned it down only because he's discussed the same topics (here and OTDE) so many times that he grew weary of it. I can only speculate that RickB left because every time he had differing opinion about some random topic, he was attacked. That's only a guess though... He did his share of attacking too. I won't speak on their behalf, I'll just throw it out there.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:58 PM   #49
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

I choose not to go into OTDE here because I have seen on a woodworking forum I still get on, and a sailboat forum I used to frequent, where some of the members were treated differently after they expressed their opinion. Politics lately has turned to fanaticism and some people have reacted irrational towards others outside of that forum. On the woodworking forum I still get on, even with the equivalent of OTDE some members still get political in the regular forums. It's like they can't control themselves anymore. One of the moderators has even gotten to that point.
I stay clear so if anyone doesn't like me it's because of my obnoxious being and not because of my political affiliations. It seems like once the damage is done, the 2 contenders will never see eye to eye again and it's too late for a moderator to step in.
I am new to this forum and one of the things I like best about it is that I haven't seen any politics get involved yet.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:29 AM   #50
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Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
Tony B wrote:
*
I stay clear so if anyone doesn't like me it's because of my obnoxious being and not because of my political affiliations. It seems like once the damage is done, the 2 contenders will never see eye to eye again and it's too late for a moderator to step in.
*

That is too bad!! *

My employer has 2000+ members and dates back to 1921. In our original written policies is a prohibition on debating race, religion or politics while on the job and we adhere to that today.* When I was hired, I used to think that was a stupid rule and just an intrusion on our rights. *But in retrospect could you imagine all these people, from all different walks of life, trying to work productively together as a team while feelings of animosity and rancor flow through the ranks?*
Even 90 years ago, our agency founders understood the inherent pitfalls, so this is nothing new.* *
This site is-what-it-is and is what you make of it.**The information provided here by posters is neither necessarily right nor wrong, just the posters opinion and we know what opinions are like (everybodys got one).* Keep in mind, while accepting their advice, you dont know their background, training, and this is the internet where anyone can be an expert.* So if you don't agree with or trust their opinion, let it go.
Just my opinion
Larry B


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Sunday 25th of September 2011 11:32:14 AM
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:36 PM   #51
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

You all have a simple choice. You can get rid of OTDE and force the moderators do a VERY stringent job of keeping boating discussions on topic, or you can keep OTDE and reduce the moderator workload to shifting errant discussions from boating "buckets" to OTDE from time to time.

The first option is what you have with Trawlers & Trawlering (T&T). Because of its e-mail format, everyone gets everything, either as individual posts or in a daily digest containing all that day's posts. Due to the inherent flaw that is human nature, just about every discussion on T&T would descend into a polarlized, personal argument were it not for the vigilance of the moderators. Some people don't like the level of moderation on T&T but it's absolutely necessary to prevent the whole forum from becoming a giant OTDE. If you want to see what TF would become without OTDE OR heavy moderation, take a look at a newsgroup (if they are still around). They're free-for-alls and for the most part are pretty nasty.

The second option is to keep OTDE which provides a place for that pesky human nature flaw to express itself without mucking up the boating discussions.

But you can't have it both ways.* It's an either-or situation.* To think that TF can be "self-moderated" by the participants to keep things nicely polite and on-topic without heavy official moderation is a pipe dream.

I think OTDE is a good idea for the reasons John Baker listed earlier.* Some people don't like expressing their views on politics, religion, etc. while others are thick-skinned enough to do so and deal with the responses.* Nobody is forced to participate in OTDE discussions, but if OTDE is eliminated they will be forced to partcipate in them--- or at least be exposed to them--- because a lot of that stuff will migrate into the boating "discussions."* And the moderators will have a full-time job filtering it all out unless the forum is going to be allowed to become the domain of the off-topic posters who will eventually cause the actual boating participants to drift away.

So pick your poison......
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:52 PM   #52
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Interesting to see the topic of OTDE generating so much... debate.
Just to be clear, my initial intention was not to question the relevance of that section on the forum. From the comments, one has to agree it serves a purpose.
I was just pointing out that a lot of comments in recent week are political ones (mostly aimed at the same target, over and over again). As if boating had become less of an interest for the members.
It's nice to have a section to blow off some steam once in a while. But when this section is the most active, it makes you wonder. That's all.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:55 PM   #53
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Straight drive or PODs?
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:07 PM   #54
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Steering wheel verticle or angled?
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:54 PM   #55
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

OTDE?* Who the Hell cares what I think anyway?* It's not like my expressing my opinion is going to change anyone else's.** I'm more interested in YOUR opinion, but I like to keep it restricted to boating.
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:56 PM   #56
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
Egregious wrote:
OTDE?* Who the Hell cares what I think anyway?* It's not like my expressing my opinion is going to change anyone else's.** I'm more interested in YOUR opinion, but I like to keep it restricted to boating.
*It's probably not what a person's opinion is, but rather the viciousness with which the negative comments are made. (I'm referring, I hope, to the *OTDE stuff.)*
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:50 PM   #57
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
Edelweiss wrote:
Does it really have to take place here?

*Nope, it takes place in OTDE!
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:02 PM   #58
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RE: Is TF still a boating forum?

Quote:
Marin wrote:
You all have a simple choice. You can get rid of OTDE and force the moderators do a VERY stringent job of keeping boating discussions on topic, or you can keep OTDE and reduce the moderator workload to shifting errant discussions from boating "buckets" to OTDE from time to time.

The first option is what you have with Trawlers & Trawlering (T&T). Because of its e-mail format, everyone gets everything, either as individual posts or in a daily digest containing all that day's posts. Due to the inherent flaw that is human nature, just about every discussion on T&T would descend into a polarlized, personal argument were it not for the vigilance of the moderators. Some people don't like the level of moderation on T&T but it's absolutely necessary to prevent the whole forum from becoming a giant OTDE. If you want to see what TF would become without OTDE OR heavy moderation, take a look at a newsgroup (if they are still around). They're free-for-alls and for the most part are pretty nasty.

The second option is to keep OTDE which provides a place for that pesky human nature flaw to express itself without mucking up the boating discussions.

But you can't have it both ways.* It's an either-or situation.* To think that TF can be "self-moderated" by the participants to keep things nicely polite and on-topic without heavy official moderation is a pipe dream.

I think OTDE is a good idea for the reasons John Baker listed earlier.* Some people don't like expressing their views on politics, religion, etc. while others are thick-skinned enough to do so and deal with the responses.* Nobody is forced to participate in OTDE discussions, but if OTDE is eliminated they will be forced to partcipate in them--- or at least be exposed to them--- because a lot of that stuff will migrate into the boating "discussions."* And the moderators will have a full-time job filtering it all out unless the forum is going to be allowed to become the domain of the off-topic posters who will eventually cause the actual boating participants to drift away.

So pick your poison......
*So perfectly put, Marin. *Thank you for putting it so succinctly. *And for those that have not been around awhile, one of THE main reason for this forum was to get away from the T&T style of moderation. *

Marin's post will end this thread. *It has run it's course. *As you were.
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