Tell Me About Wood Boat Maintenance

[psneeld]

Where I'm in New Jersey...almost NO marinas will accept a wooden boat to haul or store/repair. Some will haul it to be placed directly into a dumpster or trailer if paid in advance.

The USCG was on the verge of banning ALL wodden boats for passenger vessels after one sank in the Chesapeake back in the mid 90's. A HUGE study followed that boiled down to ANY wooden boat that doesn't have at least (can't remember the exact number but I thought it was like) 50 percent of it's fasteners checked every year..they are just a time bomb waiting to pop a plank.

I know that's not realistic and there are still plenty of wooden party fishing boats operating so I don't know anything more than the USCG inspections done now are pretty harsh on the owners.

Wood on a boat is isn't the problem...usually it's lack of PM that kills the boat...wherther GRP or all wood. Depending on location and design can greatly affect the total maintenance.

And for those bragging about foam cores...if water get's into a foam core and sits (very common)...and especially where freezing occurs...that foam core is no better than a wood core because it will eventually separate from the glass and the structure is lost just like a wood core. Read up on foam and foam coring...plenty of examples and I've seen it plenty myself.

 

[Scary]

PLenty of 70 year wood boats still working on the west Coast.

Having grown up with the maintenance of wood boat and after building three of them I own fiberglass boats. I love the beauty of classic wood boats but the reality of ownership has kept me from falling victim to the disease once again. Perhaps I'm inoculated. Wooden boats need to be in covered berths to last, especially the 50,60,70's era light weight production boats. Dry rot, loose fasteners, dried out hull sides, cracked ribs, oil saturated planking, did I say dry rot, caulking , swelling , cupping and shrinking planks. Then there's stripping, scrapping, canvasing, sanding, painting, "varnishing , at least once a year" , don't neglect this one or it's big time fun to bring back. Oh did I mention dry rot. Wooden boats very quickly reach a size where they take more maintenance than one man can do in his his spare time. If well taken care of they will last a very long time. Wooden boats are a love affair, a marriage, as such the divorce can be painful.

 

[Phil Fill]

You do not have to have a all wood boat it to look and feel like a wood boat. Many boats have a fiberglass hull with wood decks interior and trim. Its the hull that most are concerned and object to so buy a boat with a fiberglass hull but still has the look and feel of a wood boat. Believe me it will still take plenty of time and mony.

 

[bobofthenorth]

When we were shopping we looked at a gorgeous 50 foot Monk McQueen woodie, boathouse kept all its life. We fell in love but fortunately we had the good sense to bring a friend down to look at it the day we were ready to make an offer. He wouldn't even step onboard it. He said "I know that boat" and then walked back up to the bar at RVYC. After we got done with the broker we went and found Peter and he explained in great detail why we didn't want a wooden boat. He had no particular problem with the boat we had fallen in love with - just wooden boats in general. The best advice he gave us was that if we weren't prepared to keep it in a boathouse all its life then we shouldn't own it. Its not the salt water that's a problem for a woody - its the freshwater.

At least in the PNW, salt water is your friend - fresh water is your enemy. I guess in the tropics you'd have to consider worms as well but up here its freshwater and rot that gets the woodies. I love wood and I've spent a lot of hours making sawdust but I am happy to own a plastic boat.

 

[CPseudonym]

The one I'm most intrigued by is a 1929 Monterey Troller. The boat has all the commercial fishing gear stripped of and looks pretty utilitarian. The electronics are all in place and the entire hull was re-planked a few years ago. Engine was also rebuilt.

I hear ya about the marriage concept. Since I can care less about re sale value that's a non issue fiberglass or wood. Boats are toys, not unlike hot rods. If resale is that important I wouldn't buy or build one in the first place. We have decided 30' is our max length regardless. Fishing and fun are far more our criteria than long term cruising. We are not berthing the boat far from home.

Covered berths are more the norm rather than the exception in my area. I'll need to investigate the possible height issues for the mast, perhaps it is stepped or could be. Canvas covers will be in place on my boat regardless of construction when not in use. I like cleanliness and have no wish to spend an entire day cleaning before taking it out.

I will check out boat repair shops in the area to verify adequate services are available for wooden boats. Thanks for that tip. If the numbers aren't right or the boat is a dog this deal wont happen anyway.

 

[OFB]

A wood boat is just that a wood boat. No reason for a well founded wood boat to not be outside. Much like the hull they can do with the moisture from above.

A piece of floating art is different however.

Thats the rub IMO. define art ( aka old in awsome shape woodie ) or usable old wood boat.

Its a nice day here in Vancouver. Lots of folk down cleaning da boat. Some will spend more time and effort polishing there FRP or Alum boat than I will sanding a painting my old woody. Is what it is I do not own , live on board , or maintain a piece of art. I own and maintain an old woody.

I prefere to replace wood its easy compared to coring. I have no problem with refastening an old wood boat compared to reparing blisters. I dont mind replacing a keel compared to draining and filling a wet keel on a FRP.

Not all boats suffer the same issues when constructed with similar materials. Be that wood FRP , metal , or rock.

But they all suffer from age! To maintain value you pay now or later or you pay transport to the dump. Lots choose niether by never getting attached to the "machine" and sell in short order limiting loss per "machine".

Remember the hull and material is a very small part of any vessel. The topsides and guts are the major part of any vessel. Hull , machinery , tanks , electronics, pluming, etc etc.

However today I am faced with a big issue by owning an old wood boat. Paint , the oil based marine paints have been discontinued by manufacturers for enviromental reasons. Goverment.

Soooooo I am trying to find paint systems that will work with the old "marine paint" I used in an effort to not have to strip the vessel.

That is not a reflection of the vessel. But she looks like she needs a paint job after the last winter. Some of my trial paints have not worked out so well.

Pick your poison, and have a look at the effort it takes to strip , re glass , and barrier coat the FRP vessel. Not that all FRP vessels will need this but not all woodies need to re caulked or refastened with in there life. depends on the Machine.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[Tony B]

Thinking about a wooden boat hull?

This is going to be a major decision for you so here are the 2 choices:
A) Do you want to go boating as a hobby/passtime? or..
B) Do you want to restore an old wooden boat as your hobby/passtime.
Depending on the age and condition, you may not be able to do both.
If you know nothing about wooden boats, you may well find yourself out of money and resources way before the boat is even close to finishing.
In the long run, most people end up trying to save money and end up with a basket case. Many dollars and years later you will look back and think about how you really wanted to go boating and not really wanted to be fixing.
There are rare cases, and some on here, that have successfully restored an old wooden boat. They are, however, the rare few.
If money is a major factor, then consider that restoration can cost much more than a boat in usable condition.

 

[OFB]

This is going to be a major decision for you so here are the 2 choices:
A) Do you want to go boating as a hobby/passtime? or..
B) Do you want to restore an old wooden boat as your hobby/passtime.
Depending on the age and condition, you may not be able to do both.
If you know nothing about wooden boats, you may well find yourself out of money and resources way before the boat is even close to finishing.
In the long run, most people end up trying to save money and end up with a basket case. Many dollars and years later you will look back and think about how you really wanted to go boating and not really wanted to be fixing.
There are rare cases, and some on here, that have successfully restored an old wooden boat. They are, however, the rare few.
If money is a major factor, then consider that restoration can cost much more than a boat in usable condition.

I still do not see how the material fits in to your thought proccess ! The statment fits any material.

All boats need to be maintained. If they are not then they will need to be fixed.

If you want to cruise and pay others to maintain theres a cost. If you want to cruise but do not want to pay others to maintain the vessel then you will spend more time working on the boat to cruise it. Different "cost" but still a cost. I work on the boat instead of going to work to pay others to work on my boat. Its all work. Whats your poison.

What does the vessel material have to do with it ?

Age, condition sure but material ? I can have a wood boat built today that can outlive some new FRP or Metal vessel. But they all need to be maintained.



There are a lot of folk that should never own a wood vessel just should not go there with there rose colored glasses. There are also a ton of folk that should just never own a pleasure boat ever. There are some that love the full meal deal too be that power , sail, wood , FRP, Nothill, CQR, gas, deisel. :lol:

 

[dwhatty]

Have owned a two wooden boats.

The first was a Luders 16 (26') sailboat. Hot molded ply. Simple boat. And easy to maintain. No seams topsides or below water. Dimensionally stable so needed painting only every couple of years. If I could afford to have a one off boat built to my specs, I would do it in cold molded (WEST or equivalent epoxy) and not traditional carvel planking or fiberglass.

Other boat was traditional carvel planked cedar on oak frames. Owned it 22 years. Built in 1939. Needed paint, refastening and wood somewhere every year (some years not so much, other years a bit more, once in a awhile a lot) but previous owners and I had done what was needed every year and she is still going strong at age 73 under a new owner.

Current boat is fiberglass. Just wash and wax it? Right! I am finding out it needs just as much annual attention in terms of hours of maintenance labor as the 1939 boat. Just different type of work for the most part.

 

[Art]

In A Nut Shell:

IMHO, having spent years working on as well as owned many different makes and models of wooden boats as well as three top-knotch fiberglass boats (don’t know about steel or aluminum, never dealt with either – at all, and don’t plan to):

Over a span of two decades, regarding hull, decks, and superstructure ONLY; a well built wood boat requires more than 100% additional maintenance compared to a well built solid fiberglass hull with rigid foam filled integral fiberglass stringers, with well constructed fiberglass decks and fiberglass superstructure sides. That said – condition of the boat at time of purchase is SUPER important. And, I believe that no matter the material of a boat it should always be kept undercover. Picture on my avatar shows from a short period as we moved into covered berth. Thumbnail shows a cover!

Whatever you get, wood or glass, make sure it’s in great condition to begin with – or else plan for your eyes to weep as you TRY to fix it up to good condition!

 

[psneeld]

In A Nut Shell:

IMHO, having spent years working on as well as owned many different makes and models of wooden boats as well as three top-knotch fiberglass boats (don’t know about steel or aluminum, never dealt with either – at all, and don’t plan to):

Over a span of two decades, regarding hull, decks, and superstructure ONLY; a well built wood boat requires more than 100% additional maintenance compared to a well built solid fiberglass hull with rigid foam filled integral fiberglass stringers, with well constructed fiberglass decks and fiberglass superstructure sides. That said – condition of the boat at time of purchase is SUPER important. And, I believe that no matter the material of a boat it should always be kept undercover. Picture on my avatar shows from a short period as we moved into covered berth. Thumbnail shows a cover!

Whatever you get, wood or glass, make sure it’s in great condition to begin with – or else plan for your eyes to weep as you TRY to fix it up to good condition!

I find the fun begins when you start improving your road hard/put away wet boat GREATLY beyond when it came off the showroom floor/dock!

 

[Art]

I find the fun begins when you start improving your road hard/put away wet boat GREATLY beyond when it came off the showroom floor/dock!

That is so true too!

I enjoy improving my craft after and even during use. Carry good compliment of tools aboard and bring material/parts as needed.

Some (like us) enjoy a little pleasure-pain of working on our boat... others would rather not or are not sure how or simply have not enough time. Many different strokes for different folks! YeHaa!

 

[Marin]

Thinking about a wooden boat hull.

How is the outside of the hull sealed?

If you want to learn about wood hulls for the types of cruisers most of us have I think the best source of information is the Grand Banks Owners forum. A lot of the members there have wood GBs that were built in the 1960s and early 70s, and many of them are in as good or better condition than most fiberglass boats. This is partly due to the initial build quality of the boats and partly due to the maintenance and attentions most GB owners give to their boats. But every question someone might have, from what wood is used most often in the hulls (mahogany) to how is the hull sealed (caulking) to what's the best way to prevent rot (CPES, proper bedding, and proper painting) and anything else one could imagine is covered many times over on the GB forum.

Wood, fiberglass, and metal are all inherently good boatbuilding materials. The notion that a wood boat takes a ton more work to maintain than a fiberglass or metal boat is misleading stereotype, usually promoted by people with little or no real experience with wood boats. In fact, a wood boat in excellent condition takes no more maintenance than a fiberglass or metal boat in excellent condition. The maintenance processes and materials will be different in some cases, but the overall effort will be no different. And of course the systems--- engines, electrical, plumbing, etc.--- will be no different between a wood, glass, or metal boat and will require the same degree of upkeep regardless of the hull material.

The biggest difference between a wood boat and a glass boat is their tolerance for neglect. If you leave a glass boat sitting unused in the weather for six months, when you come back it will be filthy and some of the systems might not work right, but the basic hull and superstructure will be undamaged assuming there are no leaks to let water into wood subdecks, wood hull or stringer coring, wood window framing, etc.

Do the same thing with a wood boat and at the end of six months the situation could be very different. Fresh water getting into and sitting in the bilge and other spaces will encourage dry rot. Paint flaking off window frames will let moisture in as the wood frames swell and shrink and this, too, can promote rot.

Keeping a wood boat under cover can certainly help in this respect. However I know people in our marina with wood boats, power and sail, who keep them outside in the weather and in some cases their boats are in better condition than many of the glass boats surrounding them. This is due the boats being paid attention to by their owners, who also know the proper techniques and materials for maintaining a wood boat.

Where people get in over their heads with a wood boat is when they buy an old one that needs a lot of attention. Wood deterioration does not stop and wait for you if you're busy with work or other activities. So it's very easy to fall behind on the maintenance and repair of an older wood boat at which point you may simply continue falling farther and farther behind. A glass boat may need a lot of maintenance and even some repair, but for the most part it will "wait" for you with no further deterioration taking place (other than dirt) until you can get to the various projects.

Most of the boats I've had personal experience with that have what I consider truly aesthetic designs have been wood. From the Bluenose II to the classic northwest salmon trollers, wood seems to inspire far more beautiful designs than fiberglass. With the exception of working lobsterboats I have not seen any fiberglass boats--- particularly recreational trawlers--- that I consider beautiful and most of them are not even in the category of "good looking" in my opinion.

So a wood boat can be a wonderful thing. Most of the owners of wood GBs I know personally or through the forum say they wouldn't exchange their wood GBs for a glass one for any reason. But a wood boat can also inflict a very disappointing and potentially expensive experience on a boater who buys one that needs attention but who doesn't have the time, experience, knowledge, or money to do the job properly. Or who can't afford a boathouse and is going to leave the boat sitting unused and un-maintained for long periods of time.

What deters me from getting a wood boat is not any belief that wood is an inferior boatbuilding material but that I don't have the time-- and I don't want to pay for somebody else's time--- to bring an older wood boat up to snuff. But for someone who does have the time or the money, a wood boat can be every bit as enjoyable and practical as a glass boat. There are a lot of guys on the GB owners forum who prove this every day.

 

[psneeld]

My boat is 25 years old. Nothing was done to the hull or decks in those those first 25 years. I'm fixing them right at this point and nothing will have to be done for the next 25 years (or more). Show me a wooden boat that you would take to sea with only one major work period on the hull in fifty years and I'll buy you a drink.

I think wood is a great material...but it needs work...neglected or not...and yes I worked a lot of my youth up to college age working on a few wooden boats.

Then I spent nearly 35 years rescuing and salvaging people who have sunk in wooden boats...so I'm not clueless about what they are and aren't.

If wood was even a close contender as a boatbuilding material...there would be more than a handful built every year...price isn't the issue...because many more people with money would pay for it if it was in contention.

I can't say for sure, but I would be amazed if the percentage of traditional wooden boats built is more than 1 percent. There's more than one good reason that is so.

I think a wooden boat can be managed maintenance wise...but to compare the total amount of required maintenance to fiberglass is rediculous...well maybe not if you are one of those that waxes their boat 4 time a year and cares about wearing real boat shoes...so yes a "yachtie FRP boat" may come closer...BUT....most boaters don't spend anywhere near that kind of time so a woodie would clearly start to suffer from lack of maintenance all effort equal.

 

[markpierce]

Have no direct/immediate experience with wooden hulls, but several people have told me, over the years, they experienced leaks after having their boats hauled from water and then returned to water.

 

[Marin]

Have no direct/immediate experience with wooden hulls, but several people have told me, over the years, they experienced leaks after having their boats hauled from water and then returned to water.

That is normal. The planks dry out when the boat is out of the water for a longer period of time and the seams open up a bit. When the boat is returned to the water it takes a while--- usually a couple of days--- for the planks to swell up and re-seal the seams. This won't happen if the boat is out for only a few days for routine bottom painting, but if it is out of the water for a period of time and the planks dry out completely the seams will leak until the boards swell up.

It is common practice when re-launching a planked wood boat that's been out of the water for awhile to hold it in the slings in the water overnight or even for a couple of days to let the planks swell. The pumps take care of the water coming in. But once the planks swell up and seal the seams, the boat is as water-tight as it was before.

 

[Scary]

I too love a Monterey/Paladiani hull

The one I'm most intrigued by is a 1929 Monterey Troller. The boat has all the commercial fishing gear stripped of and looks pretty utilitarian. The electronics are all in place and the entire hull was re-planked a few years ago. Engine was also rebuilt.

I hear ya about the marriage concept. Since I can care less about re sale value that's a non issue fiberglass or wood. Boats are toys, not unlike hot rods. If resale is that important I wouldn't buy or build one in the first place. We have decided 30' is our max length regardless. Fishing and fun are far more our criteria than long term cruising. We are not berthing the boat far from home.

Covered berths are more the norm rather than the exception in my area. I'll need to investigate the possible height issues for the mast, perhaps it is stepped or could be. Canvas covers will be in place on my boat regardless of construction when not in use. I like cleanliness and have no wish to spend an entire day cleaning before taking it out.

I will check out boat repair shops in the area to verify adequate services are available for wooden boats. Thanks for that tip. If the numbers aren't right or the boat is a dog this deal wont happen anyway.

These are classic designs that originally were powered with single cylinder Hicks gas engines, I'm guessing this boat has a twin cylinder 2/53 Detroit. These are 5-6knt boats with almost no room in the pilot house and not much more in the hold/foreword cabin.Classic beauty.

 

[markpierce]

This Bird-class sloop (perhaps something like 80-years old) will need some "hull swelling" once completed.

http://www.birdboat.com/

 

[Marin]

...but to compare the total amount of required maintenance to fiberglass is rediculous...

No it's not. The boat pictured below was built in the mid-1940s and until a few years ago the current owner fished it by himself every year in SE Alaska. It is powered with its original gas engine and every one of its hull planks is original. I have come to know the owner fairly well, and while he takes good care of his boat, the amount of time he spends working on it is no more than what I see most owners of fiberglass boats spending on their boats around us in the marina. The only thing that requires more time than the typical fiberglass boat is painting, which he has to do every few years as well as the occasional touch up as things weather. And his boat is kept outside, not in a boathouse.

To assume that just because a boat is made of wood automatically makes it a ton more work to maintain than a glass or metal boat is an ignorant assumption. It all depends on the condition of the boat to start with, and the care the owner puts into the boat. I see fiberglass boats throughout our marina that are in hideous condition compared to Donna. Window frames rotting out, subdecks rotting due to failed deck seams, soft cabin walls due to rot in the plywood stiffeners, blisters on the hull, crazing and cracking gelcoat, even delaminating fiberglass topsides. Any material deteriorates with neglect be it fiberglass, wood, or metal.

Wood is no longer popular as a boatbuilding material because of the high labor cost of construction. Build a cheap cruiser like a Bayliner or any of the so-called Taiwan Trawlers out of traditional wood planking and they would no longer be cheap cruisers. They would cost more than a Fleming. Fiberglass made it possible to mass-produce a quality hull with a minimum of labor.

Fiberglass is a great material to build boats out of and it has the huge advantage of holding up--- at least to a point--- under extreme neglect. A wood boat, and a metal boat, too, if it's steel, will not suffer neglect nearly as cooperatively.

 

[Art]

I wholly concur with Psneeld - - >

As I've mentioned before...I spent my first decades being on, owning, living around and working in boat yards repairing/restoring/making-love-to many types of wooden boats. As a piece of Art-Work nothing touches the look of well built wood boats. But, Art-Work is best admired and kept out of the weather as much as possible! For durability in weathering conditions wood simply does not hold a candle to really good fiberglass building of a boat. Junk built fiberglass is junk, but well built fiberglass lasts like crazy! My 1977 Tolly is 35 years old and has never had a problem with its hull, stringers, decks, bridge, bilge, transom, gel coat, windows or interior. Minor safety rail stanchion refastening and new ladder steps with some reupholstering now and then as well as both motors rebuilt and one transmission rebuild. But never a notable blister or notable rot. I’m currently looking at a great condition 38 year old twin screw, direct drive 28’ Uniflite sport fisher to own for SF Bay fishing trips. There aren’t wood built boats that old that can take the weather conditions, use, and abuse that very well built fiberglass boats can take and stay in the same condition with minimal maintenance performed... there just aren't! Tollycraft, Uniflite, Bertram, Hatteras, Grand Banks, Boston Whaler are a few of the very well built fiberglass boats... there are numerous other brands too. And, then, there are fiberglass junkers too that fall apart in a couple decades, or even sooner. I used to own a Uniflite 1973 31 foot sedan sport fish... sweet boat! Back when... I owned wood Chris Craft, Johnson Bros, and a one off – nice boats – but a lot of work and constant upkeep!!

Marin - You spend much time in your life owning/working-on/maintaining/repairing/refurbishing various wood boats of different sizes and makes... just wondering??

 

[Marin]

Marin - You spend much time in your life owning/working-on/maintaining/repairing/refurbishing various wood boats of different sizes and makes... just wondering??

No. As I said earlier, I don't have the time to bring ANY boat--- wood, metal, or glass--- up to snuff. My work, writing, and travel schedule barely allows us time to simply say abreast of our old glass boat. This is why I say that wood is a great material as long as it's in excellent condition to start with and the owner has the time or money to keep it that way. When wood gets away from you, it gets away from you fast. That in my opinion is the main advantage of glass. You don't have that inherent risk of serious deterioration if the boat is neglected for long periods of time.

Unfortunately, when boatbuilders started building boats out of fiberglass they forgot how to make them good looking, at least in my opinion. As I said earlier, other than working lobsterboats, which are simply exact copies of wood lobsterboats, I have yet to see what I consider a truly good-looking boat made of fiberglass, and most of them, particularly the tall, blocky, slab-sided recreational cruisers from the 70s on up though today--- condos I think FF aptly calls them-- are downright ugly in my book.

I've had a few small wood boats in years past (16'-20') in Hawaii and they were no more trouble to keep up than similar glass boats. But they were very basic utilitarian fishing boats, nothing fancy, and so required minimum care no matter what they were made of.

But the wood boats I have seen in this area that are well maintained are real beauties and in talking to the owners, they say they take no more effort and time to keep up than a similar glass boat. But these boats are in top shape to begin with, so they are not trying to play catch-up with an old boat with lots of problems. Your 35 year old Tolly and our 39 year old GB are not even broken in yet compared to some of the wood boats I see up here.

Glory Be was made in 1927 and the current owners use her regularly today for long cruises up into BC. The Chris Craft dates from (I think) the early 50s. And one of my all-time favorite boats, the 1950s' vintage Chinook occupied the slip next to ours for a decade and the owner spent no more time maintaining her than we did our glass GB. Actually less as Chinook has no exterior brightwork. And Chinook was (and still is) in beautiful condition. She is not a converted fishboat, by the way. She was designed as a cruising boat for a fairly famous marine writer on the east coast. When he died the boat was brought out west by train. Chinook, by the way, lives outside year round and from what I observed over the ten years she was next to us, she held up cosmetically as well as any glass boat. The owner used a high-quality paint and knew how to prep the wood properly for a lasting paint job. And.... the boat NEVER had to be waxed.

 

[markpierce]

But, Art-Work is best admired and kept out of the weather as much as possible! For durability in weathering conditions wood simply does not hold a candle to really good fiberglass building of a boat.

I chose to have all the wood in the interior.

 

[markpierce]

Marin, those are some beautiful boats!

 

[Marin]

Back when... I owned wood Chris Craft, Johnson Bros, and a one off – nice boats – but a lot of work and constant upkeep!!

The guys I know who have wood GBs, which date from the mid-1960s to early 1973--- spend no more time working on and maintaining them than the guys I know with glass GBs, including us. And for the most part, their GB woodies are in equal condition to the typical glass GB.

 

[Portuguese]

Wood epoxy

I really shouldn't get involved here as for me boats are made of wood and I mean solid wooden planks not strip plank or plywood.
All other vessels are just containers that keep the water out.
I still have my adze, caulking hammer, caulking irons , clinching tools for carring out the odd repair.

Now don't take me too seriously all you owners of waterless containers.

Benn

Last week, I was invited for lunch in a 35 years old 47' sailing catamaran made in Germany by its owner. The boat, as a multihull, was constructed in wood epoxy, which is the technique used to built my so known by now, Rainha Jannota. Although the catamaran has been around the world several times and now residing in the calm and protected waters of Bahia, the owner showed me the original sawdust still existent on the bottom of the hull. He also showed me a 1 ½” diameter disk recently cut from the hull to install a new depth sensor. The wood was absolutely dry after 34 years on the water. In time, the wood was red cedar from Brazil.

Wood epoxy, Mr Tidahapah, is a modern form of wood boatbuilding. It is the best of both worlds, you have a boat with “soul”, the wood, protected and reinforced with high tier resin/glue technology. They don’t come cheap, I agree, but they will cost the same as an high tier vacuum bagged, cored fiberglassed boat.

Rainha Jannota does not have 10 or 12 “solid” 5” x 5” frames. She has 22 X 1 ½” X 3” frames, but the first boat similar to mine, has been “rallying” on top of some rocks for two days, pushed back and forward by the tides. Once in the shipyard, all they did was to put some epoxy past and paint over.

This is all I have to say about wood epoxy boats.

Regards

Fernando

 

[psneeld]

How much are those wooden boats getting used? Are they regular cruisers? If they are...they are rare or not long for the cruising life. Wooden boats certified by the USCG often have stricter nav area limits due to the uncertainty of how strong they really are. Yeah...old woodies cruisin the local area with wine glasses...for some of us that might be OK but whose gonna put 3000 miles a year under that keel? Tropical sun and waters REALLY beat up a wooden boat..OK..so maybe SOME never go there, but a lot of cruisers who buy.. MIGHT someday ..so that needs to be factored in.

If you aren't checking hull fasteners (at least a few) every year...you are rolling the dice. No...not on a new boat but after about 5 years...ALL traditionally planked wooden boats are ticking time bombs. The USCG has written that quite a few times...read this and if you still think you would own a wooden boat other than as a "classic" for parading or living at the dock..well you GOOD LUCK!!!.

http://www.pacificmotorboat.com/downloads/Wooden_Hull_Guide_nvic7-95.pdf

When I was a kid...I remember wooden boats sinking on a regular basis. Thankfully most were saved because they floated or floated enough and the "old timers" were good enough to keep them afloat till beached or otherwse. I think most fiberglass boats suffer from looks too...but the alternative to worrying about a plank going is out of the question.

Here's a quote from a guy who just bought a wood Grand Banks...
They were ready, however. The money they didn't spend on the fiberglass boat went into a rehab fund for the wood boat. "With wood, there is more maintenance," he acknowledges. "But that doesn't bother me, we are do-it-yourselfers."

 

[psneeld]

Last week, I was invited for lunch in a 35 years old 47' sailing catamaran made in Germany by its owner. The boat, as a multihull, was constructed in wood epoxy, which is the technique used to built my so known by now, Rainha Jannota. Although the catamaran has been around the world several times and now residing in the calm and protected waters of Bahia, the owner showed me the original sawdust still existent on the bottom of the hull. He also showed me a 1 ½” diameter disk recently cut from the hull to install a new depth sensor. The wood was absolutely dry after 34 years on the water. In time, the wood was red cedar from Brazil.

Wood epoxy, Mr Tidahapah, is a modern form of wood boatbuilding. It is the best of both worlds, you have a boat with “soul”, the wood, protected and reinforced with high tier resin/glue technology. They don’t come cheap, I agree, but they will cost the same as an high tier vacuum bagged, cored fiberglassed boat.

Rainha Jannota does not have 10 or 12 “solid” 5” x 5” frames. She has 22 X 1 ½” X 3” frames, but the first boat similar to mine, has been “rallying” on top of some rocks for two days, pushed back and forward by the tides. Once in the shipyard, all they did was to put some epoxy past and paint over.

This is all I have to say about wood epoxy boats.

Regards

Fernando

I'll be the first to admit composite wooden boatbuilding is a different animal...but generally that's not the discussion going on here. It's the looks and grace of older yachts that were made from traditional woodbuilding methods.

But having repaired/worked on many a North Carolina cold molded sportfishing boat...many have air circ/rot problems with them.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Art says
"My 1977 Tolly is 35 years old and has never had a problem with its hull, stringers, decks, bridge, bilge, transom, gel coat, windows or interior."
What you are say'in Art is that if you had bought a wood boat instead of a FG boat your wood boat would not be in good shape. Well there's some truth in that but not much. I basically agree w Marin here. If the wood boat was well built and maintained (and most all were) there would be very little difference in the maintenance required for each. Epoxies, 5200 and other modern high performance stuff can increase or decrease the amount of work required. Older stuff like oil based paints and caulking goo will require more frequent attention but removal and reapplication is most often much less troublesome, time consuming or expensive. And the above is not considering extensive blister repair, Rotten wood in cabins and decks, sun baked gelcoat on decks and cabins or other FG problems like rotten stringers in the bottom of the hull. There were many more poorly built FG boats 35 years ago than poorly built wood boats. I agree w Marin. There's really not much difference .....but there is. Art is right .....but only by 20%. A light sanding and a coat of oil based paint is'nt really that much trouble or expense. Scraping off the old paint and refinishing every 5 years or so is .....but it's fly stuff compared to serious blisters or rotten structural wood in the hull or cabin of a FG boat. Wood is good but fiberglass may be better ....w not far from the same amount of work. But most new FG boats will go 20 years without any maintenance at all whereas a wood boat will not.

 

[psneeld]

Art says
"My 1977 Tolly is 35 years old and has never had a problem with its hull, stringers, decks, bridge, bilge, transom, gel coat, windows or interior."
What you are say'in Art is that if you had bought a wood boat instead of a FG boat your wood boat would not be in good shape. Well there's some truth in that but not much. I basically agree w Marin here. If the wood boat was well built and maintained (and most all were) there would be very little difference in the maintenance required for each. Epoxies, 5200 and other modern high performance stuff can increase or decrease the amount of work required. Older stuff like oil based paints and caulking goo will require more frequent attention but removal and reapplication is most often much less troublesome, time consuming or expensive. And the above is not considering extensive blister repair, Rotten wood in cabins and decks, sun baked gelcoat on decks and cabins or other FG problems like rotten stringers in the bottom of the hull. There were many more poorly built FG boats 35 years ago than poorly built wood boats. I agree w Marin. There's really not much difference .....but there is. Art is right .....but only by 20%. A light sanding and a coat of oil based paint is'nt really that much trouble or expense. Scraping off the old paint and refinishing every 5 years or so is .....but it's fly stuff compared to serious blisters or rotten structural wood in the hull or cabin of a FG boat. Wood is good but fiberglass may be better ....w not far from the same amount of work. But most new FG boats will go 20 years without any maintenance at all whereas a wood boat will not.

Blisters are more of a problem than pulling fastenings every 5 years (or less) if you care whether you might pop a plank or not?

Blisters are a percentage thing...whereas pulling fastenings is a 100 percent thing with wooden boats...again not if you don't care about sinking.

Vinylester and preventative barrier coats may have made blisters a thing of the past and hydrolysis as a 50 year issue...not the 10-20 it is in pre90's boats.

 

[Marin]

I don't think anyone here is trying to suggest that wood is a superior material for small boat construction over fiberglass. At least I'm not. All I'm trying to say is that wood is not automatically the huge bugaboo so many plastic boat owners today think or claim it is.

I don't know where this notion that you have to be pulling fasteners on a wood boat every fifteen minutes came from. In talking to shipwrights and long-time owners of wood boats the recommendation I've heard is to pull a few fasteners whenever you're having a wood boat surveyed for potential purchase, and I've heard it recommended that a few fasteners be pulled every ten or fifteen years or so. But this image of a wood boat owner frequently having to pull and inspecting fasteners is simply not true. It might be a nice armchair theory but it certainly isn't the practice in reality.

Some of the people I know or have met who own wood boats use them way more than the typical owner of a glass boat. Some of them are still used commercially on a year-round basis. Most of the owners of wood GBs on the GB forum seem to use their boats more and more often than most of the owners of glass GBs based on the posts from both groups. There is a member in England who routinely takes his 1960s wood GB32 across to Ireland and up into northern Scotland and around into the North Sea. And for anyone who has not seen or been on these waters, they are not for the faint hearted.

So this notion that a wood boat is only fit to be a museum piece is bogus. At least out here. I can't speak for the east coast, although about half the several hundred commercial lobsterboats we saw on Prince Edward Island were wood.

The first boat pictured below is Dreamer, a 45' Alaskan built by American Marine in the 1960s. Until recently the boat was owned by Bob Lowe, one of the founders of the Grand Banks Owners forum. For years Bob owned and managed Oak Harbor Boatworks, a yard specializing in the maintenance and repair of wood boats as well as fiberglass. Based on his reputation and knowing him many years through the GB forum I would say Bob has more professional experience and knowledge about wood boats than anyone currently participating in Trawler Forum. Dreamer was kept in Oak Harbor, Washington. During the several decades Bob and his wife owned this boat they went many times up the Passage to SE Alaska and down the west coast to Mexico.

The second boat is Hannah. I don't know anything about her history other than she was built in the 20s or 30s. But during the summer we see Hannah all over the place in the San Juans, Gulf Islands, Nanaimo, etc. It's my understanding that Hannah is kept in a boathouse which makes sense given the amount of brightwork. But based on where we've seen her over the years she is anything but a museum piece.

The third boat is another wood Alaskan from the 60s or early 70s and is used every summer for the entire summer up in SE Alaska. For the past few years the owners have brought it down and kept it for the winter on the GB charter dock in Bellingham. We pass this dock every weekend and I don't see the owners out there frantically working on her.

In contrast, the last photo is what happens when a cool wood boat is neglected. This Columbia River salmon boat, similar in design to the double-ended Monterey herring boats, has been sitting on its mooring in Fisherman[s Bay on Lopez Island for years. I have no idea of her interior shape but judging from the exterior this is the very definition of a project boat.

So the bottom line is that wood boats, like pretty much everything else in boating, are comprised of countless variables. Some are in great shape and used a lot, some are indeed museum pieces and are rarely used, some are in serious need of work, and some are floating derelicts. But to think that "all wood boats take more maintenance than fiberglass boats" is, in my opinion, a very uninformed opinion.