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Old 04-06-2011, 04:50 PM   #21
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tell me about wood boat maintenance

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
Hey guy's ,

*John, if your cabin has no wood reinforcement it is unusually heavy or weak. FG lacks stiffness and plywood has lots of that and that's why is's use is nearly universal.
*********Let me clarify,* My cabin and flybridge appear to be fiberglass that was layed up in a mold.* Some older trawlers have plywood cabins that are glassed over. There is a lot of wood inside the fiberglass shell that makes my cabin.

Wood around windows and doors, along cabinets and bulkheads, where hardware is attached and even as stiffeners spaced as needed.* These wooden pieces are glassed in from the inside. Between all this support the shell appears to be glass only (no coring) in bright sunlight it is a little translucent. This is*noticeable in the lockers under the settees where the glass is only painted and no interior panels installed.* The decks are cored and the cabintops but not the sides.

I don't know if it is good or bad but it has held together well.

******* JohnP

*


-- Edited by JohnP on Thursday 7th of April 2011 06:32:50 AM
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:04 AM   #22
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re: Tell Me About Wood Boat Maintenance

The simple reason that most hulls are solid is they must be produced in a mold.

HULL Weight of solid glass is similar to planked wood when ALL the wood is weighed.

At 17C a pound solid glass was cheap and heavy was good advertising in the 60's.

The source of TT composite (house ply with a skim coat of CSM) was the lack of mold building ability , and the ability to customize or modify the boat as sold.

Plywood is not usually suitable as a core as the skin loads must be passed by the core to the other side.

Today the use of "good" ply or better solid woods is used in the West epoxy boats , but a cedar, Epoxy covered canoe and a marine structure like a deck are not similar.

There are a few custom racing boats that are complete West builds and they are VERY! light and strong , but the construction cost is so high they would never be chosen for a displacement vessel , even a sailing dink would be really big buck!
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:34 AM   #23
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tell me about wood boat maintenance

My boat was backyard built by 2 boatrights near Sydney, B.C.

They were building a replica vessel, using a 1963 Ed Monk cruiser as a model.* Launched in 1998.

Using West system epoxy and 3/16" x 1.5" Red Cedar strips, they built the hull cold molded with 6 layers of strips - this resulted in a hull thickness of 1.5".

The outside has a layer of glass cloth epoxyied on, then 2 part LPU paint.

It is quite strong and lightweight. - The boat displaces 18k# dry. When cruising the boat weighs in around 21k#.

I have dusty bilges, virtually zero water inside the boat as I use GFO packing at the shaft and rudder.

Maintenance is typical of a FRP hull - that has been painted.

As the layup method is very time consumptive, this method would be pretty impossible to justify in a production vessel.





-- Edited by bshanafelt on Thursday 7th of April 2011 09:35:05 AM


-- Edited by bshanafelt on Friday 8th of April 2011 08:59:54 AM
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:30 AM   #24
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re: Tell Me About Wood Boat Maintenance

I have'nt followed unlimited hydroplanes for a long time but I would'nt be surprised if they were still wood. Plywood actually and they were'nt FG because FG is too heavy and too weak to produce a competitive hull. Wood boats have some special issues to be sure but ther'e stronger, lighter, more fair and quieter. Like most things more expensive they are better***** .....unless you want to sell one!
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #25
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re: Tell Me About Wood Boat Maintenance

Quote:
bshanafelt wrote:My boat was backyard built by 2 boatrights near Sydney, B.C.

They were building a replica vessel, using a 1963 Ed Monk cruiser as a model.* Launched in 1998.

Using West system epoxy and 3/16" x 1.5" Red Cedar strips, they built the hull cold molded with 6 layers of strips - this resulted in a hull thickness of 1.5".

The outside has a layer of glass cloth epoxyied on, then 2 part LPU paint.

It is quite strong and lightweight. - The boat diplaces 18k dry. We cruise at 21k.

I have dusty bilges, virtually zero water inside the boat as I use GFO packing at the shaft and rudder.

Maintenance is typical of a FRP hull.

As the layup method is very time consumptive, this method would be pretty impossible to justify in a production vessel.
Bshanafelt: Yours is a nice looken cruiser, errrrr trawler!* Yup... That Ed Monk was a great boat designer.* His son is too!* For years Ed Sr. designed*Tollycraft.*Great design*efficiency throughout!

What power source and HP*does your boat have?* You running twins or single screw?* What rpm do*you use to get 21knt cruise, and, what gph do you average at that really quick*pace?* Also, what*prop do you swing?**

Swinging*correct size, three blade, well tuned props,*and,*by using one of the low hour*twin 350 cid 255 hp Mercruisers, NOT BOTH, at just*below hull speed*(6.5 knts), I can get my 34 foot Tolly tri cabin*close to 2.50 nmpg.* At a full plane cruise, with*both engines at 3300/3400 rpm she does 16/17 knts... and gets about*1 nmpg.* At*WOT*(4400 rpm) she'll do*21/22 knts - I only use that level of power*in an emergency that requires very*quick moves (had to do that once for a couple minutes*just outside the Golden Gate Bridge);*or just to show off for 30/40 seconds to a friend.* But, I'd never leave her beauty-engines*at WOT*long enough to learn the NMPG at that rpm/speed - Probably scare the sht out of me anyway - lmao!**

-*Happy Boating! Art*

*
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:58 PM   #26
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re: Tell Me About Wood Boat Maintenance

Hello Art,

my boat has a 210hp cummins 5.9- turbo no aftercooler. w/hurth 2:1 gear. Prop is 3- blade 24 x 18 R.

to clarify, my speed is 7.5knots using 1.4 gal/hr - this is around 1500-1600 RPM.

The displacement of the boat is 18000 lbs dry and 21000-22000 lbs while cruising.

I believe(mathematically) I am using somewhere around 30hp to move the boat at displacement speed.

As the hull is a full displacement, there is very little gain in speed when I power up, although it makes one heck of a wake - and I will say it is handy to have plenty of extra hp if I am running a pass or rapids a little bit late etc.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:36 PM   #27
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I decided to give this thread a kick after reading through it. The wife and I are simply in love with the look and feel of wooden cruisers. We have found a couple of examples of what we like. I have read this thread and others in this forum but still desire more information on maintenance from any wood boat owners(or reformed ones) on this forum.

Aside from a competent survey, haul out and sea trial what else should we seek. I assume professional therapy is one idea. The boats we have liked are not teak farms by any stretch of the imagination. Smaller cabin cruisers.

One of them a 60's vintage Tolly with a Gray Marine gasser the other boat is a late 20's vintage Monterey troller that has been replanked and has a rebuilt 2 cylinder diesel engine. We have found many fiberglass boats but keep falling in love with the look feel and ride of the woodies.

If there is a cure for this ailment we sure are interested in finding it

Thanks for your thoughts, Craig
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:49 AM   #28
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Craig - I call it "wood boat disease". I contracted it myself after attending my first Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival 10 years ago. I still have it, and believe that you cannot be cured until you own a wood boat yourself and live with the consequences - good or bad...
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:17 AM   #29
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Wooden boat maintenance is something I have zero actual knowledge of.

Get a book , but as to ownership,

FORGETABOUTIT!!!!!!
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Consider paint. At least 99% of you go down to the store and buy very expensive marine paint or plastic coatings that require great amounts of preparation and careful application and after all that you only get a season or two to show for all your money and work. At that time you have the horrific job of stripping the old finish off (some of it extremely well adhered to you're boat) and then do the refinish ordeal all over again * * ....and in a year or two??? *
Don't know anybody who repaints his frp boat EVERY YEAR OR TWO! Actually I know very few people who did the job once to begin with.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:18 AM   #31
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Where I'm in New Jersey...almost NO marinas will accept a wooden boat to haul or store/repair. Some will haul it to be placed directly into a dumpster or trailer if paid in advance.

The USCG was on the verge of banning ALL wodden boats for passenger vessels after one sank in the Chesapeake back in the mid 90's. A HUGE study followed that boiled down to ANY wooden boat that doesn't have at least (can't remember the exact number but I thought it was like) 50 percent of it's fasteners checked every year..they are just a time bomb waiting to pop a plank.

I know that's not realistic and there are still plenty of wooden party fishing boats operating so I don't know anything more than the USCG inspections done now are pretty harsh on the owners.

Wood on a boat is isn't the problem...usually it's lack of PM that kills the boat...wherther GRP or all wood. Depending on location and design can greatly affect the total maintenance.

And for those bragging about foam cores...if water get's into a foam core and sits (very common)...and especially where freezing occurs...that foam core is no better than a wood core because it will eventually separate from the glass and the structure is lost just like a wood core. Read up on foam and foam coring...plenty of examples and I've seen it plenty myself.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:04 AM   #32
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PLenty of 70 year wood boats still working on the west Coast.

Having grown up with the maintenance of wood boat and after building three of them I own fiberglass boats. I love the beauty of classic wood boats but the reality of ownership has kept me from falling victim to the disease once again. Perhaps I'm inoculated. Wooden boats need to be in covered berths to last, especially the 50,60,70's era light weight production boats. Dry rot, loose fasteners, dried out hull sides, cracked ribs, oil saturated planking, did I say dry rot, caulking , swelling , cupping and shrinking planks. Then there's stripping, scrapping, canvasing, sanding, painting, "varnishing , at least once a year" , don't neglect this one or it's big time fun to bring back. Oh did I mention dry rot. Wooden boats very quickly reach a size where they take more maintenance than one man can do in his his spare time. If well taken care of they will last a very long time. Wooden boats are a love affair, a marriage, as such the divorce can be painful.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:29 AM   #33
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You do not have to have a all wood boat it to look and feel like a wood boat. Many boats have a fiberglass hull with wood decks interior and trim. Its the hull that most are concerned and object to so buy a boat with a fiberglass hull but still has the look and feel of a wood boat. Believe me it will still take plenty of time and mony.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:05 PM   #34
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When we were shopping we looked at a gorgeous 50 foot Monk McQueen woodie, boathouse kept all its life. We fell in love but fortunately we had the good sense to bring a friend down to look at it the day we were ready to make an offer. He wouldn't even step onboard it. He said "I know that boat" and then walked back up to the bar at RVYC. After we got done with the broker we went and found Peter and he explained in great detail why we didn't want a wooden boat. He had no particular problem with the boat we had fallen in love with - just wooden boats in general. The best advice he gave us was that if we weren't prepared to keep it in a boathouse all its life then we shouldn't own it. Its not the salt water that's a problem for a woody - its the freshwater.

At least in the PNW, salt water is your friend - fresh water is your enemy. I guess in the tropics you'd have to consider worms as well but up here its freshwater and rot that gets the woodies. I love wood and I've spent a lot of hours making sawdust but I am happy to own a plastic boat.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #35
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The one I'm most intrigued by is a 1929 Monterey Troller. The boat has all the commercial fishing gear stripped of and looks pretty utilitarian. The electronics are all in place and the entire hull was re-planked a few years ago. Engine was also rebuilt.

I hear ya about the marriage concept. Since I can care less about re sale value that's a non issue fiberglass or wood. Boats are toys, not unlike hot rods. If resale is that important I wouldn't buy or build one in the first place. We have decided 30' is our max length regardless. Fishing and fun are far more our criteria than long term cruising. We are not berthing the boat far from home.

Covered berths are more the norm rather than the exception in my area. I'll need to investigate the possible height issues for the mast, perhaps it is stepped or could be. Canvas covers will be in place on my boat regardless of construction when not in use. I like cleanliness and have no wish to spend an entire day cleaning before taking it out.

I will check out boat repair shops in the area to verify adequate services are available for wooden boats. Thanks for that tip. If the numbers aren't right or the boat is a dog this deal wont happen anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #36
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A wood boat is just that a wood boat. No reason for a well founded wood boat to not be outside. Much like the hull they can do with the moisture from above.

A piece of floating art is different however.

Thats the rub IMO. define art ( aka old in awsome shape woodie ) or usable old wood boat.

Its a nice day here in Vancouver. Lots of folk down cleaning da boat. Some will spend more time and effort polishing there FRP or Alum boat than I will sanding a painting my old woody. Is what it is I do not own , live on board , or maintain a piece of art. I own and maintain an old woody.

I prefere to replace wood its easy compared to coring. I have no problem with refastening an old wood boat compared to reparing blisters. I dont mind replacing a keel compared to draining and filling a wet keel on a FRP.

Not all boats suffer the same issues when constructed with similar materials. Be that wood FRP , metal , or rock.

But they all suffer from age! To maintain value you pay now or later or you pay transport to the dump. Lots choose niether by never getting attached to the "machine" and sell in short order limiting loss per "machine".

Remember the hull and material is a very small part of any vessel. The topsides and guts are the major part of any vessel. Hull , machinery , tanks , electronics, pluming, etc etc.

However today I am faced with a big issue by owning an old wood boat. Paint , the oil based marine paints have been discontinued by manufacturers for enviromental reasons. Goverment.

Soooooo I am trying to find paint systems that will work with the old "marine paint" I used in an effort to not have to strip the vessel.

That is not a reflection of the vessel. But she looks like she needs a paint job after the last winter. Some of my trial paints have not worked out so well.

Pick your poison, and have a look at the effort it takes to strip , re glass , and barrier coat the FRP vessel. Not that all FRP vessels will need this but not all woodies need to re caulked or refastened with in there life. depends on the Machine.

Just some random thoughts.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #37
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Thinking about a wooden boat hull?

This is going to be a major decision for you so here are the 2 choices:
A) Do you want to go boating as a hobby/passtime? or..
B) Do you want to restore an old wooden boat as your hobby/passtime.
Depending on the age and condition, you may not be able to do both.
If you know nothing about wooden boats, you may well find yourself out of money and resources way before the boat is even close to finishing.
In the long run, most people end up trying to save money and end up with a basket case. Many dollars and years later you will look back and think about how you really wanted to go boating and not really wanted to be fixing.
There are rare cases, and some on here, that have successfully restored an old wooden boat. They are, however, the rare few.
If money is a major factor, then consider that restoration can cost much more than a boat in usable condition.
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
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This is going to be a major decision for you so here are the 2 choices:
A) Do you want to go boating as a hobby/passtime? or..
B) Do you want to restore an old wooden boat as your hobby/passtime.
Depending on the age and condition, you may not be able to do both.
If you know nothing about wooden boats, you may well find yourself out of money and resources way before the boat is even close to finishing.
In the long run, most people end up trying to save money and end up with a basket case. Many dollars and years later you will look back and think about how you really wanted to go boating and not really wanted to be fixing.
There are rare cases, and some on here, that have successfully restored an old wooden boat. They are, however, the rare few.
If money is a major factor, then consider that restoration can cost much more than a boat in usable condition.


I still do not see how the material fits in to your thought proccess ! The statment fits any material.

All boats need to be maintained. If they are not then they will need to be fixed.

If you want to cruise and pay others to maintain theres a cost. If you want to cruise but do not want to pay others to maintain the vessel then you will spend more time working on the boat to cruise it. Different "cost" but still a cost. I work on the boat instead of going to work to pay others to work on my boat. Its all work. Whats your poison.

What does the vessel material have to do with it ?

Age, condition sure but material ? I can have a wood boat built today that can outlive some new FRP or Metal vessel. But they all need to be maintained.



There are a lot of folk that should never own a wood vessel just should not go there with there rose colored glasses. There are also a ton of folk that should just never own a pleasure boat ever. There are some that love the full meal deal too be that power , sail, wood , FRP, Nothill, CQR, gas, deisel.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:38 PM   #39
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Have owned a two wooden boats.

The first was a Luders 16 (26') sailboat. Hot molded ply. Simple boat. And easy to maintain. No seams topsides or below water. Dimensionally stable so needed painting only every couple of years. If I could afford to have a one off boat built to my specs, I would do it in cold molded (WEST or equivalent epoxy) and not traditional carvel planking or fiberglass.

Other boat was traditional carvel planked cedar on oak frames. Owned it 22 years. Built in 1939. Needed paint, refastening and wood somewhere every year (some years not so much, other years a bit more, once in a awhile a lot) but previous owners and I had done what was needed every year and she is still going strong at age 73 under a new owner.

Current boat is fiberglass. Just wash and wax it? Right! I am finding out it needs just as much annual attention in terms of hours of maintenance labor as the 1939 boat. Just different type of work for the most part.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #40
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In A Nut Shell:

IMHO, having spent years working on as well as owned many different makes and models of wooden boats as well as three top-knotch fiberglass boats (donít know about steel or aluminum, never dealt with either Ė at all, and donít plan to):

Over a span of two decades, regarding hull, decks, and superstructure ONLY; a well built wood boat requires more than 100% additional maintenance compared to a well built solid fiberglass hull with rigid foam filled integral fiberglass stringers, with well constructed fiberglass decks and fiberglass superstructure sides. That said Ė condition of the boat at time of purchase is SUPER important. And, I believe that no matter the material of a boat it should always be kept undercover. Picture on my avatar shows from a short period as we moved into covered berth. Thumbnail shows a cover!

Whatever you get, wood or glass, make sure itís in great condition to begin with Ė or else plan for your eyes to weep as you TRY to fix it up to good condition!
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