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Old 11-04-2015, 12:32 PM   #1
S41
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Teleflex Capilano steering issues

Our new to us Symbol 41 Sundeck has a bit of what I would call 'slow to respond' steering. To me the systems seems like steering my old 1967 Chevy Pickup (like the systems is missing a few teeth in the steering box). I have to turn the wheel about a quarter turn to get the boat to respond to the helm. I don't feel any difference in the helm pressure (if that is a good way to describe it). But, the boat is slow to respond and can cause a person to over steer. Especially if I have someone else on board do the steering for a while.

The last boat I had had a different system that was pressurized. This one does not have a pressurized system. Last night, I started to go through the system after work. It appears that all the lines are sealed, no leaks on the cylinder on the tiller connection or where the lines connect to any of the pumps, valve box. Tiller connection is solid to the fittings to the cylinder.

I took pictures of all the parts while digging around to find a manual on line. The only place I found one was stored on this sites Library. Even the manufacture did not have it on line...

The boat has Teleflex Capilano 250V Helm Pumps at both the flybridge and cabin stations. a Model 50 Uniflow Valve and a Model BA 175 X7-TM cylinder. All appear to be original to the boat from 1986. All look like new on the outside.

This weekend I will start by watching the tillers in the aft cabin (under the stateroom master bunk) to see if the cylinder is working properly when the helm is turned. And to see if there is a quarter turn on the helm to match the feeling I have before the cylinder moves. I will then check the fluid level on the upper helm pump.

I am thinking this is the place to start, but I am not sure if the symptom is caused by a fluid issue or the pumps need to be rebuilt. Or if the boat is just slow to respond to the rudders underway.

Anyone have any other thoughts as to a cause/solution? Thanks!
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Old 11-04-2015, 01:52 PM   #2
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That may be normal.
I would describe my 40 Albin (single engine) as slow to respond also.
And I rarely feel any pressure on the helm.
I also have a capilano system, and I have adjusted the knob to give me the max stroke per turn.
You may just have to get used to the response time and learn how to steer it differently that you are used to.
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Old 11-04-2015, 02:38 PM   #3
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Thoughts:
-Check upper helm reservoir level. "Level must always be within 1/2" of the filler hole"
-The hydraulic lines should be copper. Plastic lines could be expanding causing delayed response. Rubber lines should not be used.
-Air in the system should purge itself IAW the manual. Maybe it did not. Read the system fill and vent section.
-If the whole ram was loosely mounted, there would be delayed response. Watch it to move when the helm is turned. The ram should move instantly.
-The rudder may move instantly with the boat at a standstill, but not when the boat is moving with some counter-force.
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:05 PM   #4
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S41

How tight a course will it hold with AP engaged?
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:20 PM   #5
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I may have the same setup as you. Check out this thread. Someone was kind enough to attach a PDF of the directions.

Hydraulic Steering Cylinder - New or Rebuild
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Old 11-04-2015, 04:19 PM   #6
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Teleflex Capilano steering issues

I had a similar problem with a boat we chartered, a 40' tri cabin, probably also with the Capilano teleflex. At the time, I knew nothing about boats, but I now suspect it was a fluid level problem, or air in the lines, I'd start with checking into those situations first, before addressing the steering cylinder. Fluid levels are a simpler fix.

Here's a link to the PDF owners manual

http://www.comstedt.se/pdf/manualer/...heavyduty4.pdf

Jim
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:34 PM   #7
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I don"t find anything in your description unusual. That said, do you have a "knob" sticking out beneath the wheel? If so, that is used to adjust the steering ratio. If i remember correctly, turning it in (clockwise) increases the ratio which may help the responsiveness. Regardless of setting, during low speed steering I don't think you should feel much feedback.

Ken
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
S41

How tight a course will it hold with AP engaged?
No Auto Pilot on the system. It will be added down the road, but the boat did have one when we bought it last summer.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire View Post
Thoughts:
-Check upper helm reservoir level. "Level must always be within 1/2" of the filler hole"
-The hydraulic lines should be copper. Plastic lines could be expanding causing delayed response. Rubber lines should not be used.
-Air in the system should purge itself IAW the manual. Maybe it did not. Read the system fill and vent section.
-If the whole ram was loosely mounted, there would be delayed response. Watch it to move when the helm is turned. The ram should move instantly.
-The rudder may move instantly with the boat at a standstill, but not when the boat is moving with some counter-force.
Thanks, I will be checking he fluid level this weekend, the system is all copper lines, in good condition. Will see how the ram connections and movement are with my wife at the helm moving the wheel.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clynn View Post
I may have the same setup as you. Check out this thread. Someone was kind enough to attach a PDF of the directions.

Hydraulic Steering Cylinder - New or Rebuild
That is all good information. Thanks for posting the thread. I had searched the site here for something like this and could not find it.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
I don"t find anything in your description unusual. That said, do you have a "knob" sticking out beneath the wheel? If so, that is used to adjust the steering ratio. If i remember correctly, turning it in (clockwise) increases the ratio which may help the responsiveness. Regardless of setting, during low speed steering I don't think you should feel much feedback.

Ken
Thanks Ken,

And to think I thought it was a knob to lock the wheel... I will turn it as you noted to and see if that is my issue
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:53 PM   #12
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You guys are great! I will let you know what I find over the weekend. Thanks!
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:01 PM   #13
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I have a manual that I could copy if you need it.

Ken
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
I don"t find anything in your description unusual. That said, do you have a "knob" sticking out beneath the wheel? If so, that is used to adjust the steering ratio. If i remember correctly, turning it in (clockwise) increases the ratio which may help the responsiveness. Regardless of setting, during low speed steering I don't think you should feel much feedback.

Ken
This knob really works and make sure the fluid lever is topped up with no air in the system as well.
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
I have a manual that I could copy if you need it.

Ken
If it is different than this one that is in the library here,

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/d...?do=file&id=29

then yes I could use it. The handful of manuals that came with my boat are hit and miss on what they cover and the Teleflex manual was a missing one.

Thanks!!!
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:37 PM   #16
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This knob really works and make sure the fluid lever is topped up with no air in the system as well.
Sometimes I can be my worst enemy... Having sailed for most of my life, the knob on most sailboat wheels was a lock. I made sure it was unlocked by unscrewing it. Hopefully, this is what is causing the slop in the wheel. Will check the fluid and turn it clockwise. Thanks for posting all the information in the Library. It is very helpful.
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Old 11-04-2015, 08:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S41 View Post
Sometimes I can be my worst enemy... Having sailed for most of my life, the knob on most sailboat wheels was a lock. I made sure it was unlocked by unscrewing it. Hopefully, this is what is causing the slop in the wheel. Will check the fluid and turn it clockwise. Thanks for posting all the information in the Library. It is very helpful.
When you turn the knob all the way clockwise you just touch the wheel and you will have response. I hoped someone could use the manuals I uploaded...
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Old 11-04-2015, 08:54 PM   #18
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If you unscrewed it, that is likely the issue. When you tighten it, I suggest you do not go beyond 3/4 tight or you may experience leaking from the seal at the knob. If you add fluid, be sure you use the recommended fluid. Often Capilano specs ATF rather than Teleflex or Seastar fluid. Don't expect it to steer as responsively as a sailboat because it won't.
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S41 View Post
Sometimes I can be my worst enemy... Having sailed for most of my life, the knob on most sailboat wheels was a lock. I made sure it was unlocked by unscrewing it. Hopefully, this is what is causing the slop in the wheel. Will check the fluid and turn it clockwise. Thanks for posting all the information in the Library. It is very helpful.
It is not "slop" or lash that you are experiencing. The adjustment knob changes the displacement of the pistons inside the helm pump.
With the knob all the way "out" or unscrewed, you will have more turns "lock to lock" of the wheel than you'll have with the knob all the way "in" or screwed in.
You also may feel more resistance when turning the wheel with it screwed all the in.
I have less than 3 turns lock to lock.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:03 AM   #20
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The knob on mine is set for about 6-7 turns of the wheel from lock to lock. I had some problems (turn the wheel very slow response) a few years ago it was due to low oil level. Operator error, hadn't ever checked it I do now.
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