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Old 08-04-2016, 03:21 PM   #21
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We are currently "fixing" our 37-year old teak decks with fiberglass. Our deck construction from the bottom up goes: 1/8" layer of fiberglass, 3/4" marine ply, 3/8" fiberglass, and finally the teak strips screwed down. We will be using MAS Epoxy and KiwiGrip for the project, and are making a video of the entire project as well. My friend is the former owner of MAS Epoxy (he just sold the company a couple years ago, but is being retained for 5 years as the GM), and they have done this many, many times over the years.

After addressing a few areas of delamination, we will completely sand the decks. Then wash them down thoroughly with acetone. We'll then apply a 6 oz. layer of fiberglass cloth with three different applications of resin/hardener. First layer of low viscosity resin needs to be applied fairly thin so the fiberglass bonds directly to the prepared teak without "floating" in resin. That's the secret to a good bond with the teak. The glass fibers themselves need to bond with the teak as much as possible. A couple more coats of resin and the fiberglass will be ready for sanding/painting. We will then mask off areas and apply KiwiGrip according to directions.

According to my friend at MAS, we will be able to still discern the teak strip lines under the KiwiGrip, which is something we would like for aesthetic reasons (part of the reason we like the look of teak). The KiwiGrip guys at PYI, however, are pretty sure we will not be able to see the teak lines under as the non-skid coating is fairly thick. But as we're not a sailboat worried about heeling, we can use a thinner layer of KiwiGrip. The thicker the layer, the more aggressive the roll-on texture becomes.

The end result will be a "semi-permanent" fix. They have boats going on 10-15 years and are doing just fine (not necessarily with the KiwiGrip, though). For us it's about time, expense, and the desire to retain that underlying teak "look". Plus, if it does fail in a few short years, then we will do the more traditional method of ripping the teak off, filling a few thousand holes, fiberglassing and KiwiGripping that.

We will post the video here once we are done.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:45 AM   #22
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Moonfish: sounds very interesting & we look fwd to the video.


While off-the-shelf Home Depot sheets might or might not work, what about getting a fibreglass shop to make a custom sheet (or sheets) to a foredeck or side-deck template? Could then be made the appropriate thickness/strength and painted with non-skid in the shop. Brought aboard as a finished product, it could be glue'd to sanded-down /acetone-cleaned old deck. Wouldn't this be feasible and preferable to expoxy/FRP work being done over several days on board, then on-board fairing and painting and non-skid?
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Old 08-05-2016, 06:02 AM   #23
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Teak decks are installed in individual strips .

In theory yes , however to speed installation of the overlay some builders would take wide boards route calking strips and have hundreds of plugs installed for "the look"

A very large board would have perhaps a dozen real mounting screws , and some goop under those screw holes.

Mostly depends on the week the boat was built.
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Old 08-05-2016, 08:46 AM   #24
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Aquabelle now your talking.
When I said FRP I was also hoping for some other suggestions.
I was thinking maybe a thick sheet of plastic maybe 3/8". But I like your thought. Sometime we get stuck into thinking well that the way they always do it! That doesn't mean there can't be better a solution!
Just make sure the teak is stable and secure. Install a solid sheet over the top seal the edges and get cruising!
You could even have the sheet built a little larger and cut to fit!
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:19 AM   #25
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I didn't have time to read all threads. FRP over teak sounds like good idea. Added weight though with both materials layered. My thought for adherence of FRP to teak would be consummate amount of 1/2" monel or SS staples embedded about 3/4 way into teak (i.e. leaving just slight space between teak and staple top for resin to get underneath). Power stapler would accomplish this fastening system quickly. Seems that approx 3" o.c. staple layout in the field with closer tolerance at edges would suffice. Then simply apply the fiberglass and resin. Bingo... newly surfaced, waterproof, solidly attached strata deck! Ain't life grand!!
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:36 AM   #26
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Crane Composites transport truck trailer panels come in sheets big enough so only two or four sheets would be needed for most of our boats, and even come in a thicker, high impact textured surface called, "scuff panels".

FRP Panels by Crane Composites

Crane's Armortuf looks good as well;

http://www.cranecomposites.com/tr/liners.html

I'll be taking the teak off to deal with some soft core issues, but these panels are intriguing.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:36 AM   #27
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FF "Almost all TT do not have real "teak decks" they have a thin teak overlay , usually stuck on as an option ,to a plywood deck structure with a thin GRP over coating..

This teak paint job is very pretty but it is a huge danger to the underlying deck the boat was built with."

There must be a different inventory of Taiwan built boats in the East than here is SW BC, as so far, in 22 yrs of ownership of a Taiwan Built boat, and the observation of so many others, I have not yet seen a single bTaiwan built boat that has the deck covering FF described above.

What I have seen, is that most have a 1/2" thick, properly laid covering, over the molded structure. In almost every case, the teak boards are laid in a black polysulfide bedding material and screwed every 12" or so.

There have been several threads here of TF members pulling up their old, failing decks and replacing, and notably, none of those threads show anything like FF is describing. What those threads have shown, is as I have encountered.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
FF "Almost all TT do not have real "teak decks" they have a thin teak overlay , usually stuck on as an option ,to a plywood deck structure with a thin GRP over coating..

This teak paint job is very pretty but it is a huge danger to the underlying deck the boat was built with."

There must be a different inventory of Taiwan built boats in the East than here is SW BC, as so far, in 22 yrs of ownership of a Taiwan Built boat, and the observation of so many others, I have not yet seen a single bTaiwan built boat that has the deck covering FF described above.

What I have seen, is that most have a 1/2" thick, properly laid covering, over the molded structure. In almost every case, the teak boards are laid in a black polysulfide bedding material and screwed every 12" or so.

There have been several threads here of TF members pulling up their old, failing decks and replacing, and notably, none of those threads show anything like FF is describing. What those threads have shown, is as I have encountered.
I've surveyed hundreds of TT's and each of them has been exactly as FF described.
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Old 08-05-2016, 03:37 PM   #29
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Boatpoker "I've surveyed hundreds of TT's and each of them has been exactly as FF described."

Good to know. Now I can put FF's apparent disdain for "TT" boats in proper perspective.
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Old 08-05-2016, 08:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
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My thought for adherence of FRP to teak would be consummate amount of 1/2" monel or SS staples embedded about 3/4 way into teak (i.e. leaving just slight space between teak and staple top for resin to get underneath). Power stapler would accomplish this fastening system quickly. Seems that approx 3" o.c. staple layout in the field with closer tolerance at edges would suffice. Then simply apply the fiberglass and resin. Bingo... newly surfaced, waterproof, solidly attached strata deck! Ain't life grand!!
Art: that might be the way to do for in situ creation of a fibreglass-over-teak deck. I was asking about creating the fibreglass deck off-boat/in-shop, even maybe finishing the non-slip in-shop and then bringing a completed side deck/foredeck overlay on board and fastening this down. I don't see why it couldn't be bonded to the teak using a suitable flexible goop with screws into the teak (not right through into the core!) to hold it down where there is significant camber or to help adherence to the goop.

But I don't understand much about fibreglass...obviously! Would a mold be needed? If so, creating the mold for a one-off would be very expensive?
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:08 PM   #31
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I had a marine business. The frp will not hold up. seams and edges will eventually leak creating a biosphere within the teak. Panels will crack, etc.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:23 PM   #32
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Lepke: great to have input from someone with your experience. Is there a product other than FRP that could be prepped off-boat and installed over old teak....even if ultimate fairing and finishing still had to happen aboard?
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:24 PM   #33
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May I suggest that FF is partially right... up at the bow where the "pattern" of the individual "planks" curves to meet near center-line - the teak is a wide single plank...

Notice that I sanded through the faux caulk line...

Maybe i'll grab a sharpie and pen-in the caulk lines - I wont be routing in a fake caulk line.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
Teak decks are installed in individual strips .

In theory yes , however to speed installation of the overlay some builders would take wide boards route calking strips and have hundreds of plugs installed for "the look"

A very large board would have perhaps a dozen real mounting screws , and some goop under those screw holes.

Mostly depends on the week the boat was built.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:25 PM   #34
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Seen many patch up glass over teak never seen a good one and when it come to selling its takes $1000s off the asking price and scares most others away.

"Do it once do it right "
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Old 08-06-2016, 01:50 AM   #35
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Appreciate the tried-and-proven approaches. I think the OP and others on this thread are just re-visiting to see if new materials/technologies have thrown up any alternate approaches that are worth considering
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:17 AM   #36
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" I think the OP and others on this thread are just re-visiting to see if new materials/technologies have thrown up any alternate approaches that are worth considering"

For a sound vessel long term the roofing shovel still cant be beat.
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:15 AM   #37
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My post #25 was before I'd had time to more fully review many posts on this thread. Being that fiberglass overlay on teak deck was the main thread premise my post was regarding insight for creating "staple fastening system" regarding a whole new resin saturated, woven-fabric installation with gel coat layer. Daunting task to be sure!

Not that I have done this on boat teak-deck before, but having used their resilient, flexible, waterproof (and expensive) products for construction coatings... I would look closely into polymer enhanced products by Super-Krete Super-Krete | Concrete Products | Concrete Repair Products - Super-Krete

Their tenacious-hold coating products are expensive, but, application has been relatively easy and quick.

Just a thought!

Happy Deck-Coating Daze! - Art
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