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Old 12-20-2018, 12:34 AM   #1
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Taxing ships and Passagers?

This is getting crazy. Tax ASD as I pass Astoria? Toll shipping channel?

https://www.dailyastorian.com/news/l...7f0c45339.html
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Old 12-20-2018, 01:11 AM   #2
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I don't understand how or why this would apply to ASD or any moderately sized recreational boat. This appears to be aimed at commercial traffic and maybe, just maybe mega yachts. Pier 1 is not needed or used by ASD sized rec vessels, you would use the west or east mooring basin. Nor would ASD use Merchants Exchange or a ship's agent.
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Old 12-20-2018, 12:31 PM   #3
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In the article a study determined the City/Port has the authority to to implement a tax out to the Washington/Oregon boarder. Yes it could affect recreational boats like ASD if they decide to apply it as such.

I am surprised King County (Read Seattle) hadn't thought of this first!
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:59 PM   #4
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S-H-H-H-H-H-H. Don't say that too loud or Seattle will hear you.


I'd better not expand on that or I'll get my butt kicked off TF.
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Old 12-21-2018, 02:12 AM   #5
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Not surprising. Airports are taxed; why not sea ports. Somebody has to pay for it. Why not the user.
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Old 12-21-2018, 02:19 AM   #6
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So, can I charge a tax for each car that drives by my house? Sweet!
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:30 AM   #7
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So, can I charge a tax for each car that drives by my house? Sweet!


You probably could if you built and/or maintained the road.
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:03 PM   #8
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You probably could if you built and/or maintained the road.
Sure, but I don't think the port of Astoria is maintaining the ocean that ships pass by on.
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:46 PM   #9
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So, can I charge a tax for each car that drives by my house? Sweet!
Well there is the fuel tax. Some in King County want to eliminate the road gas tax and charge you by the mile. A device would be install on you vehicle and it would send out to the State how many miles you have driven and then you would get a tax bill.

Not a long stretch to see that this could also spill over into recreational boating in Puget Sound or the Columbia River.
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Old 12-22-2018, 11:19 AM   #10
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Right of Passage restricted.
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:29 PM   #11
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In Canada it’s referred to as vote netting and it requires parliamentary approval:
“An authority to expend certain revenues to offset related expenditures. Authority to operate net voting must be obtained from Parliament on an annual basis. Revenues not associated with costs incurred must be recorded as non-tax revenues.”

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Old 12-23-2018, 08:19 AM   #12
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I'm not familiar with the area, but according to the article the issue is funding to renovate a pier that is used as a tie up point for ships waiting for safe passage. Perhaps others from the area can say more. I imagine the pier was probably originally built with federal funds as part of the Columbia River water way. Now it needs repairs, and who's going to pay?


This seems to be a pretty and example of a pretty common funding challenge. You could use general taxation, but there are good arguments for fees and taxes that place to costs with the user of the service or product. The proposed fee places the cost burden on the ships that might make use of the pier. On the surface, that seems a better approach than other sources of funding. Unless of course the pier isn't needed?
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Old 12-23-2018, 08:47 AM   #13
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The trouble with such taxes is that once implemented they never seem to go away, long after the pier or whatever has been repaired.
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:32 AM   #14
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The trouble with such taxes is that once implemented they never seem to go away, long after the pier or whatever has been repaired.
Ditto - Just a thought, if the FEDS built it, are they not responsible & liable for maintaining it? Unless they deeded it to the city. Me thinks after the repairs from the new taxes, the money will be re-allocated to a social program not associated with maritime use. Just a thought.
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Old 12-23-2018, 10:55 AM   #15
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Ditto - Just a thought, if the FEDS built it, are they not responsible & liable for maintaining it? Unless they deeded it to the city. Me thinks after the repairs from the new taxes, the money will be re-allocated to a social program not associated with maritime use. Just a thought.


I think the key here is that there is always a more complex problem trying to be solved, with human interests on all sides. I just don’t think one should jump to conclusions without at least a basic understanding of the problem and the issues.

And federal funding is the broadest based fee or tax possible, so furthest from directing the cost towards the beneficiaries of the spending.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:51 PM   #16
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If you think that’s bad, I just spent 3 days in a transient slip in Alabama and they charged me a lodging tax.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:10 PM   #17
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Astoria tax.

A. It only applies to merchant vessels.
B. You could always just stay on the Washington side...

There is an issue of vessels anchoring in the basin, using services, not taking fuel, waiting to be loaded up river...sometimes for weeks. As that stretch of water in particular is my bread and butter, I say tax away.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:20 PM   #18
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You don't? Have you been sleeping in a cave. This is just the start. The camel getting his nose in the tent. The federal income tax started in 1913. It was a flat rate of 3%.
Get real people.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:23 PM   #19
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"Why not" asks AusCan? Why not, because they waste the money, just like in Australia and Canada.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:27 PM   #20
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Yeah...sorry, but I like those roads, schools, USCG, and everything else that has to get paid for.
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