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Old 08-08-2018, 10:17 AM   #1
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Tariffs and Recreational Boats

Interesting article:

Tariffs Are Wrecking on Recreational Boat-Building Industry – gCaptain
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:36 PM   #2
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Yeah, interesting.

Here is another I thought was interesting.

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diese...na-made-parts/
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:29 PM   #3
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I am as disgusted as anyone at our president's war with China over tarriffs. But the attached article is way over blown. An aluminum pontoon boat that normally sells for $30,000 will go up by $7,000. GMAFB!!


That boat probably has at most 2,000 lbs of aluminum in it. Raw aluminum costs less than $1.00 per pound with no tarriffs. See- Aluminum Prices and Aluminum Price Charts - InvestmentMine. A 25% tarriff will add maybe $500 to the cost of the raw materials that go into a boat.


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Old 08-08-2018, 07:15 PM   #4
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Yeah, interesting.

Here is another I thought was interesting.

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diese...na-made-parts/
Is the idea to force manufacture back to onshore in USA?

If you take into account labor costs etc in USA, would that result in a similar effect on pricing?
Inflation used be seen as a bad thing, now some Govts actually seek inflation.
It`s an odd economic world Trump is creating, but I remember his words" Trade wars are good, they are easy to win". I hope it works out well,worldwide. I`m sure it`s really not, but from here USA seems to have morphed into a dictatorship. If so, let`s hope it`s a benevolent one.
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:43 PM   #5
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Based on this article in today's Trade Only Today, I dunno how much impact tariffs are actually having on US builders of aluminum boats.

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/indus...gn=enewsletter

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Old 08-09-2018, 05:35 AM   #6
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Is the idea to force manufacture back to onshore in USA?

If you take into account labor costs etc in USA, would that result in a similar effect on pricing?
Inflation used be seen as a bad thing, now some Govts actually seek inflation.
It`s an odd economic world Trump is creating, but I remember his words" Trade wars are good, they are easy to win". I hope it works out well,worldwide. I`m sure it`s really not, but from here USA seems to have morphed into a dictatorship. If so, let`s hope it`s a benevolent one.

Inflation is happening, trade wars or not. The tariffs on incoming AL only makes it happen faster. Now consider the tariffs on incoming China materials and components. Prices go up more. Start building in the US. Again, prices go up even more. The net result is lots of people losing jobs and companies going pout of business because people won't/can't buy their products anymore.


I think it was a huge mistake for industry to move manufacturing off shore over the past 20-30 years, but the horse is out of the barn. We all live on a price structure that reflects that manufacturing reality. Change it, and prices will rise dramatically and/or wages will drop dramatically. Both will grind the economy to a halt.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:41 AM   #7
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Based on this article in today's Trade Only Today, I dunno how much impact tariffs are actually having on US builders of aluminum boats.

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/indus...gn=enewsletter

--Peggie

The tariffs are hitting the business on both ends. For US builders, costs are up due on tariffs on incoming goods. That drives prices up, but is arguably non-fatal.


But apparently worse are the tariffs on finished product that we export - something that helps counter our horrific trade deficit. That drives the purchase price in other countries for our good through the ceiling, and as boat exporters are seeing, sales come to an immediate and complete stop. Then all the US infrastructure (jobs plus indirect economic activity) implodes, causing exactly the opposite of the desired result. Simply brilliant.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:28 AM   #8
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The tariffs are hitting the business on both ends. For US builders, costs are up due on tariffs on incoming goods. That drives prices up, but is arguably non-fatal.


But apparently worse are the tariffs on finished product that we export - something that helps counter our horrific trade deficit. That drives the purchase price in other countries for our good through the ceiling, and as boat exporters are seeing, sales come to an immediate and complete stop. Then all the US infrastructure (jobs plus indirect economic activity) implodes, causing exactly the opposite of the desired result. Simply brilliant.

Yup! US made boats imported into Canada have just been slapped with a tit-for-tat 10% tariff, all because a certain somebody felt that Canadian steel and aluminum were a security threat to...well...Im not sure who?

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Old 08-09-2018, 10:04 AM   #9
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Well maybe these builders can start buying American aluminum, thus a need to open steel and aluminum plants here in the US.
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:08 PM   #10
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Well maybe these builders can start buying American aluminum, thus a need to open steel and aluminum plants here in the US.

At elevated cost, or they would be doing it already.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:39 PM   #11
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My thoughts would be deemed political, so I will bite my tongue.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:53 PM   #12
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My thoughts would be deemed political, so I will bite my tongue.

Regardless of the politics, I am interested in how the tariffs will affect us a boating consumers as well as the industry itself. A few here are contemplating buying Helmsman Yachts for example. The final cost will be influenced by tariffs going both directions. The same is true of North Pacific Yachts. Bob's "Mahalo" may have had a significant price difference with the tariffs as well.


At the same time, what about the domestic trawler builders? Nordic Tug and American Tug could be helped or hurt by the tariffs. Too many variables for me to figure it out, but again I'm curious. I want all of the above builders to succeed. It helps the industry and ultimately it helps us as boaters.


So regardless of whether trade wars are a brilliant and cunning economic strategy created by a business genius that will resurrect the dying steel and aluminum mills in the US, restore equity in our trade relationships, boost domestic employment and wages, and raise the status of the US around the world, or...


...the tariffs are nothing more than the deranged rantings of an orange man-child designed to pander to a base ignorant of basic economic theory...


...it really doesn't matter to the discussion of how the tariffs may affect the recreational boating industry. So if you have some ideas as to the effects of the tariffs on us as boaters, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:35 PM   #13
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As Grover Norquist says, "Tariffs are a tax on the many for the benefit of the few". Socialism.
The whole purpose of tariffs is to make things more expensive, forever.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:17 PM   #14
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As Grover Norquist says, "Tariffs are a tax on the many for the benefit of the few". Socialism.
The whole purpose of tariffs is to make things more expensive, forever.
Is not the US Republican Party the champion of free trade? Perhaps Trump disagrees with Norquist(assuming he knows of him).

Whether it be tariffs, or domestic manufacture, things will cost more. But there should be more jobs in domestic manufacture, leading to more US economic activity.
China, and other lower cost manufacturers have become the factory to the world.Turn that on its head,there will be many repercussions as the world tries to accommodate the changes.

What could possibly go wrong? To quote another Trumpism,"We will see what happens". Which could be code for "I`ve no idea,anything could happen".
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:38 PM   #15
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If we place tariffs on imported boats, which AFAIK hasn't happened yet, you can bet that prices will go up on all boats at least as much as the tariff, even though the US made boats will not be subject to the tariff. Simple supply and demand economics.


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Old 08-09-2018, 08:24 PM   #16
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Is not the US Republican Party the champion of free trade? Perhaps Trump disagrees with Norquist(assuming he knows of him).

Whether it be tariffs, or domestic manufacture, things will cost more. But there should be more jobs in domestic manufacture, leading to more US economic activity.
China, and other lower cost manufacturers have become the factory to the world.Turn that on its head,there will be many repercussions as the world tries to accommodate the changes.

What could possibly go wrong? To quote another Trumpism,"We will see what happens". Which could be code for "I`ve no idea,anything could happen".
Certainly is the champion of free trade...I think the point was to level the playing field.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:33 PM   #17
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This administration, along with past administrations have made mention of unfair trade practices the US faces. The others have sat on their hands and flapped their gums. This is not a status quo administration. Promises made on the campaign trail are trying to be implemented. I am not smart enough to know, if current policy will work, doing nothing seems not to be the answer. Negotiating has not had a great deal of success. Looking at the Chinese markets, it seems they may be feeling more pain than the US. Time will tell.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:11 PM   #18
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The big imbalance between US and China comes from China`s ability to manufacture and export at such low cost compared to domestic manufacture. Equalizing prices by imposing tariffs is like "the curate`s egg", good and bad in parts.

It was expected a dampening demand for Chinese product would lower prices on coal and iron ore we sell to China,but at least with iron ore, prices are rising, which doesn`t suggest China is feeling pain. Word here is China is waiting on the next US elections. But as you say, time will tell, and doing nothing is not always an option. Meantime lots of trade relationships will fracture, but so be it.

Chinese demand largely saved Australia from the 2008 catastrophic events in USA and the knock on effects elsewhere.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:03 PM   #19
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If we place tariffs on imported boats, which AFAIK hasn't happened yet, you can bet that prices will go up on all boats at least as much as the tariff, even though the US made boats will not be subject to the tariff. Simple supply and demand economics.

Maybe. OTOH, maybe the domestic manufacturers may use their pricing advantage to regain market share lost to Chinese builders? I dont know much about the industry in general and am only passingly familiar with a handful of manufacturers. It seems to me that if companies such as North Pacific or Helmsman are faced with a significant tariffs, that will provide a boost to Nordic Tug and American Tugs who are so much higher in cost comparatively.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:34 PM   #20
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We're lumping a lot of tariffs and a lot of destinations. Plus a lot of unknown.

Here's the known at this time.

Canadian boat dealers are extremely worried as the majority of boats sold by US builders to Canadian dealers are aluminum so they're hit with a double whammy, the material cost importing to the US and the tariff by Canada.

Every inboard or inboard-outboard boat manufacturer in the US who sells also in Europe is feeling pain. They're trying to shift what they can to outboards. This has impacted major builders but also some small custom sportfishing boat builders.

Now, as to all the rest of it, everyone is living with major uncertainty. All pricing is being done right now with the buyer taking full responsibility for any tariffs. A lot of buyers are not willing to do that. The importers of European boats in South Florida are having a decrease in orders, even though there are currently no new tariffs on them.

We face uncertainty on every product we sell. We have no idea what will be hit in the next few months.
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