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Old 07-01-2010, 03:11 PM   #21
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Right, it's called a forked moor.

2 anchors off the bow at 180 Deg is a Bahamian moor. The Bahamian moor entails two anchors both set from the bow, one up current the other down current,180 deg apart. The vessel pulls on either or both anchor rodes, and is immobilized within a tight radius regardless of wind direction or current flow.

Two anchors set one fore and one aft is called a fore and aft moor.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:01 PM   #22
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Marin,I did. Remember you talked me into buying a new anchor and I got the Manson? Well the XYZ is mostly a toy now. Gotta figure it out. When I've tried to set it it always feels like it's bouncing along the bottom and I think my theories of the past have been wrong. I now think the XYZ has been tripping on it's nose like a plane landing w out a nose wheel (nose into the runway and tail up and over) but i think the XYZ never does the 180 flip. The water stops it and it just tries to set again nosing in again and over and over unless it's mud. If my new theory is right the little bruce will set and drag. Bruces are good at that * *..right. The drag will keep the tail down and serious penetration should result.
I put the bolts in the slot on the MS but haven't used it yet. I got together the trip line w a little orange float but don't know how to inflate the float.


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Old 07-01-2010, 11:08 PM   #23
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Tandem anchoring

Eric---* We use a white crab pot buoy on our trip line.* To make it easier to retrieve I put a section of 1/2" (ID) PVC pipe through it.* The long end sticks up and the short end has a couple of shaft zincs on it so the buoy floats upright.* Just last weekend I modified it by installing male and female threaded ends just above the buoy so I can unscrew the long end which makes tthe whole thing much easier to stow.

The photo shows the original version.* The current one sticks up twice as high so I can grab it from the deck without the need of a boathook.* The vertical pole also makes it easier for other boaters to see.

-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 1st of July 2010 11:14:00 PM
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:55 AM   #24
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RE: Tandem anchoring

to set it you drop anchor and let her drift until you get 2x the scope drop the second anchor and haul in on the first untill the rodes are equal with the boat in the middle. wala, the Bahamian moor.

This is perhaps what is needed for open and deep water.

Usually the Bahama Moore is used to secure a boat in shallow water , inside a restricted swing area (mooring field) or in a really crowded harbor.

The technique then is to pull yo abeam the stern of the boat in front , drop the fwd anchor , with location ball , and fall back to set the anchor.

We simply lower the stern anchor off the transom and walk the rode to the bow . In 10 ft of water (sometimes only 5 ft) the scope is fine for a Danforth , and a good pull will let you know if its set well. The "lookey pail" will let you get a visual on both .

Departing the stern anchor is pulled first , no big deal its a 20lb anchor most evenings, and the stern is straight over it.

Necessary for packed conditions in shallow water , but the system does work to about 20 ft of depth , if extra stern line is passed , after the initial setting pull.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:28 AM   #25
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Tandem anchoring

Marin,OK good. Mine's going to be orange, a soft fender like rubber/plastic ball. Should be really easy to snach w a boat hook. I'm not going to store the Manson in the anchor rode box like I'd planned. When it gets really rough the rode box tries to get away. An extra 18lbs would tip the situation toward the get away side. But then there will be plenty of room for the sacrificial end of the rode AND the trip line. If I find the trip line to be a lot of trouble, and I don't expect that, I'll open up the slot and see how many anchors I'd have to buy. I wonder if the roll bar diameter is different on the Rocna. The big difference between the Manson and the Rocna is not only the shank but perhaps more importantly the up and down elevator part of the TE. Some anchors rely mostly on the UE feature for holding like the Spade and the Delta. The Manson does'nt have it (another reason I didn't buy it) but Rocna has both roll bar & UE and according to the tests I read the Manson does'nt lack performance for lacking the UE feature either so I'm thinking the roll bar does most of the holding work where employed. The SARCA had a larger roll bar but of smaller dia.


Eric


Marin * * * .. your dinghy's on your boat * *.. while you took the pic * *..hmmmmm?


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 2nd of July 2010 11:30:37 AM
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:06 PM   #26
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Tandem anchoring

Eric--- While I think your theory of the action of an*up or down curve at the rear of the fluke of an anchor like the Rocna, Sarca, Manson, etc is correct, I think the reality of this curve's effect on the anchor's performance is very minor. The basic principle of the roll-bar spade anchor--- it ends up on its side, pulling on it pivots the sharp point into the bottom and the blade slices down, and the blade then rotates to end up resisting the boat's pull because of it's basic shape and angle into the bottom---- is why they work.

So in my opinion, the angle of bend at the very back of the fluke, either up or down or none, is pretty irrelevant to the anchor's actual performance.

Much more important, I think, is the shape of the tip, which has to do the initial penetrating, and how the design enhances the pivoting force that drives the tip into the bottom. This is where I believe the Rocna's design is superior to the Manson Supreme's.* If there is any difference in the diameters of the roll bars on the Rocna, Manson, and Sarca, it's probably not much and I doubt it makes any difference.* There is a small hole drilled in the top of the Rocna's roll bar and I thought it might be of some significance--- when I asked Rocna about it they said it's only*there to aid in draining the galvanizing material when the anchor is manufactured or re-galvanized.* So, nothing dramatic

As to the photo, we carry two dinghies on our our boat. It came with the lovely Montgomery sailing/rowing dinghy in the cradle on the aft cabin top. It's a great little boat, a lot of*fun to sail or*row,*but as a utilitarian shoreboat, not so good. Too tippy, too small.* So a few months after acquiring the GB we added a 9' Livingston on Weaver Davits on the swimstep (see photo below).* We deploy and retrieve it using the boom fall--- a one person, one hand, very fast*operation. *I took the buoy photo from Livingston.

-- Edited by Marin on Friday 2nd of July 2010 12:07:18 PM
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:33 PM   #27
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Marin,Good dinghy trick. I may have the same dinghy on the Willy. I'll check. It has a plaque on the transom and I know it's a sail boat. I glassed over the CB trunk some time ago. But it may not be the same boat as I don't consider mine a good rowboat. It requires concentration to keep it on a straight course. But it is fast and performs well (7 or 8 knots) w a 6hp Johnson at half throttle. I hate them but I bought a rubber duckie fron West Marine a few days ago * * ..51lbs. I can easily lift that op on my cabin top.
I agree w you. The trailing edge difference is that w the Rocna the trailing edge is part of the fluke area providing resistance/holding power whereas the trailing edge (as in elevator down) like the XYZ does not help the performance. But like you say the trailing edge probably is'nt a big factor in performance. And about the tip * * .. I agree w you again. AND I think the Rocna's tip is better. But as long as the Manson sets good I'll be happy.


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Old 07-07-2010, 01:33 AM   #28
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Eric---

I've seen a lot of comments about the Manson Supreme over the years on forums like T&T. With the exception of complaints about the slot permitting the anchor to be pulled out of the bottom if the boat got off at the wrong angle to the anchor--- an issue they all solved by securing the rode to the hole in the end of the shank below the slot--- my overall impression of users' opinions of the Manson is that they were very pleased with its performance. So my guess is that you will be, too.

The first photo is one I took of our friends from France who boated with us last fall. This is the Montgomery Model 7-11 sailing dinghy we carry in the cradle on top of our aft cabin. It is fiberglass and teak and the mast (carbon-fiber I think) steps right up at the bow. Our friends are not large people, so the Montgomery worked out fine for the both of them. My wife and I, however, are not so small, so it's a one-person boat for us.

The second photo is what I believe is the ideal dinghy of all time. Easy to build, easy to fix, and if you get tired of it you can throw it in the dumpster with no regrets. I took this shot the other year in Xiamen, China, and it's actually a "skiff" that a local fisherman uses to get out to his moored fishing boat. The fishing boat isn't much more sophisticated or better built--- it's just bigger and has a motor of sorts. But you could build something like this real easy, although I don't think it would compliment the lines of your Willard very well.

The third photo has nothing to do with any of this, it's just a nice shot I took from the window of the house we rented up north on Vancouver Island when we went halibut fishing a few weeks ago. This is my idea of a room with a view.....
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:04 AM   #29
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Marin: That third photo is a doozy! It coincides with my mental image of what a great cruise should be. What a backdrop for a boat ride!
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:14 AM   #30
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RE: Tandem anchoring

The boat in the sunset photo is a commercial fishboat based (I assume) in Port McNeil which is a few miles up Weynton Passage in the direction the boat is going. The boat is actually passing through the "junction" of Weynton Passage and the top of the infamous Johnstone Strait.

I put a Photobucket slide show together of shots from our halibut trip this year--- I will PM you the link if you'd like to see it.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:17 PM   #31
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Marin,Thanks for the pics all. We're going to the boat to work on the cap rail (spoze to be 70 somethin today). Ill look at the name plate on the dink. It's the same boat on top of the Willy in my avatar. I'll post it and you can zoom in and look. You probably didn't notice but I changed my Avatar pic. The other was almost the same. I'm trying to modify the present Avatar pic * * ..zoom in and move a bit to the left. I'll figure it out and then you'll see my Avitar change a bit again. Since the color of the dinghy and the cabin side buff don't get along well I'll eventually take more pics w/o the dink.
Yea I think the Manson will be fine. Wer'e preping the Willy to go to Ketchikan for a week or so. Daughter inlaw is having a baby soon. I thought we would go cruising after the event but Chris says got to go home so she can be near Sarah. Oh well.
I think the China dink in your pics would take stout lifting gear. I (UGH) bought a rubber duckie from West Marine because of it's 51lb weight. I can easily pull it up on the cabin top. Very important right now.

As to the pic on the right it's basically like that everywhere you look up here. Weather's not that nice most of the time though. Our friends from Bow Wa are renting a place up in Coffman Cove that not only has a view like that but is advertised as "Room with a View".
Are you guys on Face Book? Find my site/page and snoop around at the 200 or so pics I have there in 5 albums. Speak up if you drop in.


Eric
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:54 PM   #32
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Tandem anchoring

Eric--- Your dinghy looks similar to ours but it appears to be longer. Montgomery called the one we have the "7-11" because that's how long it is, 7' 11". They date from the 1970s and have not been made for many years. They have a very small longitudinal keel and there is a teak daggerboard for when you sail the thing. The teak rudder and tiller drop into pivot points on the transom. Ours has teak strips applied to the two seats, but I see in photos this was not always done. I lifted these photos off a Montgomery owners site to give you an idea of what the 7-11 looks like.* Montgomery made a whole range of sailboats up into the 20-plus foot range and from what I have read, their boats had/have a very good reputation.* I believe their dinghy models*were not numerous and are rather rare these days.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 02:57:43 PM
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:18 PM   #33
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Eric:
Willy is a cool looking boat. Any inside pics?
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:51 PM   #34
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Tandem anchoring

Gulf Comanche,Only 3. I'll take some more when we go to Ketchikan.Some of the ones i'm putting up here were taken at time of purchase.
Marin,
It is and it isn't. It's a Montgomery but as you suspected it's bigger (10'). Chris and I go cruisin in ours w a 6hp Johonson at about 7-8 knots. It's nice and dry around boat wakes and chop. It's a semi-displacement hull so it planes significantly. Great power dingy but just too heavy to pull up on the cabin top. In Thorne Bay we may have trouble selling it.


Eric


Pic 1. At the helm in the Snohomish River in Wa state.
Pic 2. Chris entering the Point Baker harbor (north end of POW Island).
Pic 3. Me at the helm on the trip up the coast and home.
Pic 4. The helm when we bought her.
pic 5. Just before we bought her.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 10:01:25 PM
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:32 PM   #35
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Eric---

Here is the website for the Montgomery boats owners group. If nothing else, they are looking for photos of a Montgomery 10 dinghy like yours. Also, if you are trying to sell your dinghy this site may offer a place to advertise it. You never know-- some enthusiast may be willing to buy it and pay to have it shipped to them.

http://www.msog.org/
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:32 PM   #36
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RE: Tandem anchoring

[img]download.spark?ID=753614&aBID=115492[/img]
You can build a Whitehall from scratch pretty easily.* There is a book available from woodenboats.com that I used to build this one.* Rows like a Banshee.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:08 AM   #37
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Is that you Delfin? Very Yes. That's what I should have here for a rowboat. I have another 10' boat for rowing and wanted to use it as a dinghy too (thats why it's 10') but that's not going to happen. But of course at 10' boat is too short for a serious rowboat. I should sell both my ten footers and get a good rowboat like yours. But if I spent that much time building I'd like to build a 25' flat bottom dory like skiff but I just don't have the time. If I keep dreamin about it I spoze I could abandon lots of my responsibilities and wants and just DO IT.Sorry * * ..I have no contact information on that beautiful Garden boat I posted a while back.
Thanks Marin, I'll prolly just but it on the bullitin board for $400 and be done w it.


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Old 07-08-2010, 09:18 AM   #38
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RE: Tandem anchoring

This one only weighs about 80#, which makes it easy to handle and it rows like a scull.* It has a small keel by design so it tracks like an arrow.* If I was going to use it as a utility tender rather than a toy I'd add 10# to the weight and put a layer of epoxy glass below the waterline.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:10 AM   #39
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RE: Tandem anchoring

All this talk about ideal anchorings - lots of anchorages have seen my hook this summer in Alaska. Nothing beats a good bottom and heavy ground tackle. Keep it simple - mass. Forget about the fancy stuff like twin anchors. A good read of Dashew's ground tackle selection mimics*the*group thinking here. LOTS OF WEIGHT with a good hook.

No one sets a trip line that I have seen yet this summer - except for one 64 Nordhavn with a 150# hook in the*easiest bottom* you could ask for in*Bartlett Bay.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:27 AM   #40
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RE: Tandem anchoring

Yes Tom and Jan. Anchoring is a weighty subject and Bartlett Bay is a good anchorage.You must have spent some time in Juneau, my birth city and favorite city. I have not been committing any anchoring sins but I have been sinning heavily w linseed oil. On the 14th we will be going to Ketchikan for a week or so * * ..anchored to the Tomas Basin floats. It was 80 some odd degrees here Wednesday * *..raining now * *..57 degrees. Happy trails of sea foam.


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