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Old 05-10-2016, 04:04 PM   #61
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Taking the plunge?

I know you already realize that your budget is going to put you in a 30 plus year old boat but I suggest attending one of the large east coast in water shows this fall.

It was very helpful to us to be able to compare so many types of boats in a single day. It allows you to start to get a feel for things like galley up or down, fly bridge or not, pilot house vs lower helm in saloon etc.
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Old 05-10-2016, 04:13 PM   #62
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It's a piece of cake to wire in a Honda EU2000i - but keep in mind that its gas powered. With a large battery bank, that 2.5kw inverter, and careful battery management...you might be able to get a week on the hook if you are frugal (and have an alternate method for heating water - like a diesel hydronic furnace or perhaps a Paloma heater). Include large alternators and move anchorages every few days and you're even better off. And a $1K Honda for those few times you don't want to move (or maybe the power goes out in the marina in the winter while you're living aboard).

You asked how much a 4kw generator installed might be, and I'm going to guess (this is NOT my area) that the generator would run about $5K and the installation by a yard about the same for a total of $10K. Do it yourself and you could probably cut $3K off of that. That's a complete guess - I'm happy if someone wants to jump in and correct.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:01 AM   #63
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Where did you learn that? The listing says 343/340 and "LOW hours on her Volvo engines"
Hawgwash, there is a start up video with the listing for that CML. The broker mentions he believes there are around 2500 hours on the engines in that video. I imagine he knows very well what the hours are or he wouldn't say that. I assume those are what they are calling low hours. The low hours shown on the gauges are because of some work done on the engines. I see the broker did a oil test before changing the oil. Must be some concern about the engines? I don't know if they always reset the hour meters if major work is done? The engines start great in the video, although on the second one the voltmeter swings back and forth for some reason.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:08 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Werner;
The broker mentions he believes there are around 2500 hours on the engines in that video. I imagine he knows very well what the hours are or he wouldn't say that.
OK, but consider that your NB innocence might be at play there and in the absence of hard accurate data, like a complete log and receipts, its guess work.

-----------------------

So, Mr. Werner;
I preface the following with; it's always fun to look at boats.

If you would like to explore the CML a little further, I can go take a look for you.

Take me one long, 12 hour day and about $75, neither of which I object to, if you are serious. I could also do it over two, more relaxing days, by mooching off family or friends.

The tricky part is, depending who is in the Gillnetter, it could take a week.

Yachtworld says Richmond but that is the brokerage. The boat is a couple dozen miles upriver and I know exactly where she is. Google Map Harken Towing.

The first pic shows location, with the boat dead centre, below the little wine glass. The second, your boat, snuggled in the corner and the third my route to it.

If I could get the Starfrit guy to shut up it would be a pleasant journey.

Now, I wonder why the price dropped nearly 20 grand in the 3 months leading into the prime market season.

Talk to me.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:05 PM   #65
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Ignore the brand.
Does this have any appeal at all?
Pacific Coast Yacht Sales (Richmond, BC)&
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:34 PM   #66
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Hawgwash, thanks for the offer to look at that CML. Very generous. (sent a private message) Yes, that Bayliner does look good. I wonder about the fresh water capacity for longer tours away from marinas. I guess could get a water maker. With no generator would look into the gas Honda solution. The hours are impressively low. Again, only from what I have read, low hours can be a bad thing and actually worse than high hours as low hours are a diesels worst enemy due to corrosion. Sounds right so how do you address something like that? I guess a oil test for internal corrosion would be important.

One major thing I wonder about would be lack of radar, or am I missing something? I operated a RIB out here on the Bay of Fundy, where there is almost no boat traffic, with no radar. In thick fog we would have the deflector out and stop and listen for traffic, but a stressful situation. There are no pleasure craft here on the upper bay where the tides are the largest so just had to worry about the lobster boats. Out here fog can roll in very quick with the water, due to the big flush each day, not warming up past 10c. Could leave in bright sun and 30 minutes later be in soup so thick couldn't see 20 meters. Almost ran into a island with 300 ft high cliffs one day, with a watch intently scanning from the bow as we were on the way to that island. From the GPS we know it was there, just couldn't see it. Only going 2-3 knots so the tubes would have just bounced off the cliffs. I cant remember having much fog on the west coast when I lived there though.... Certainly nothing like here. But a boat that size??

It doesn't have the fancy woodwork of the Ocean Alexander but that isn't important. My wife (Danish) doesn't appreciate all the excesses of North American design anyways. Simple, functional and comfortable is important. Still curious about that OA though. Not sure what storage would be like on the bayliner. I did look at this boat a while ago but at that time I was still with the 'bayliners are bad' impression, which I have now accepted as not the case.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:26 PM   #67
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That Bayliner link was just to see if that style even appealed to you. I was looking from a strictly live aboard accommodation standpoint.

Now we can open up the field and give you an example of what is within your budget out here. A budget of C100,000 should let you look at stuff up to 125k or so. Here are some that are in there. Never mind single, gas, no gen, sold and other one item issues for now. Just look and see what you could live on and avoid a divorce. Where you can stick a couple of kayaks.

42 CHB
http://www.calibreyachts.com/power-inventory.html/1979/CHB/EUROPA-42/42-FT/NANAIMO/BC/CA/details-5642644#info

39 Carver
http://www.calibreyachts.com/power-inventory.html/1993/CARVER/390-COCKPIT-MOTOR-YACHT/39-FT/NORTH-VANCOUVER/BC/CA/details-5663074#info

40 Tolly
http://www.boatwizardwebsolutions.com/pls/printcustomyachtsales.php?rPage=/privatelabel/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=pp289932&boat_id=2872 318&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1504& url=&

36 Uniflite
http://www.boatwizardwebsolutions.com/pls/printcustomyachtsales.php?rPage=/privatelabel/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=pp289932&boat_id=2917 021&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1504& url=&

36 GB
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=287246 5&ybw=&hosturl=grandyachts&&ywo=grandyachts&&units =Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1518&url=&hosturl=g randyachts&&ywo=grandyachts&

38 Permaglass
http://www.islandyachtsales.ca/powerboats/38ft_Permaglass/Ballina.htm

37 Puget
http://www.islandyachtsales.ca/powerboats/37ft_Puget_Trawler/Pacific_Wynd.htm

35 Universal
http://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/details.asp?File_Number=PF4792

36 GB
http://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/details.asp?File_Number=PW4743

40 OA
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=292301 0&hosturl=passageyachtsales&&ywo=passageyachtsales &&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id =11024&url=&hosturl=passageyachtsales&&ywo=passage yachtsales&

41 Canoe Cove
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=291196 4&hosturl=passageyachtsales&&ywo=passageyachtsales &&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id =11024&url=&hosturl=passageyachtsales&&ywo=passage yachtsales&

42 Chris
http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=3465

40 Tolly
http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=4243

39 Carver
http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=4290

44 Californian
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=293022 6&ybw=&hosturl=yachtsaleswest&&ywo=yachtsaleswest& &units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=2224&url=&hos turl=yachtsaleswest&&ywo=yachtsaleswest&

40 Hiptimco
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photo_gallery.jsp?slim=broker&lang=en&ywo=yachtsal eswest&hosturl=yachtsaleswest&units=Feet&id=296038 4&back=/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp&boat_id=2960384
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:44 AM   #68
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In your opinion, for sleeping comfort, would it not be best to have a aft cabin. Thinking of being on anchor and waves slapping up against the bow, noise from anchor rode as it swings where the attachment is at the bow.

If fore or aft makes no real difference, we were sort of set on a centerline bed setup although perhaps one where you can come out the end is OK also, like some of the V berths. Don't like the ones where the bed is crammed in with walls on 3 sides and someone has to crawl over to get out. Minor stuff huh - but if living on the boat for extended periods such minor things could come to the fore as long as some major thing doesn't overshadow it.

I have seen these boats on the net, but will take a closer look. I appreciate all the time you are taking to help us out!
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:19 AM   #69
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In your opinion, for sleeping comfort, would it not be best to have a aft cabin. Thinking of being on anchor and waves slapping up against the bow, noise from anchor rode as it swings where the attachment is at the bow.

If fore or aft makes no real difference, we were sort of set on a centerline bed setup although perhaps one where you can come out the end is OK also, like some of the V berths. Don't like the ones where the bed is crammed in with walls on 3 sides and someone has to crawl over to get out. Minor stuff huh - but if living on the boat for extended periods such minor things could come to the fore as long as some major thing doesn't overshadow it.

I have seen these boats on the net, but will take a closer look. I appreciate all the time you are taking to help us out!
It has to be weighed with all other factors. They all have tradeoffs. Typically if a boat only has a single cabin it will be in the forward V. Two cabins normally one will be. However, there are many configurations. Likewise, there are people to whom the spaciousness of the master cabin is very important including walk around space and ceiling height and others who see it as nothing more than a bunk room, just a place to sleep, and as long as they can get in and sleep, they're happy.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:07 AM   #70
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One week day, take a drive out to Shelburne and look up Charlie Arcon at Nova Trawler Company.

He can talk you into and out of a few things.
He also knows the west coast.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:20 AM   #71
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A one week charter on either coast will put some feathers on the dart. Much like our last boat it'll bring into sharp focus desired features while separating the must haves from the nice to haves. Brand and layout of boat chartered is irrelevant. By the end of the week you'll have much clarity.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:33 AM   #73
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In your opinion, for sleeping comfort, would it not be best to have a aft cabin. Thinking of being on anchor and waves slapping up against the bow, noise from anchor rode as it swings where the attachment is at the bow.

If fore or aft makes no real difference, we were sort of set on a centerline bed setup although perhaps one where you can come out the end is OK also, like some of the V berths. Don't like the ones where the bed is crammed in with walls on 3 sides and someone has to crawl over to get out. Minor stuff huh - but if living on the boat for extended periods such minor things could come to the fore as long as some major thing doesn't overshadow it.
Our Sailboat had a large aft cabin with a centerline King. Wonderful for sleeping. Even with the aft cabin in certain situations we would get wave slap in the stern. It was never a huge problem. Now we have a forward V berth but are too new to the boat to have much of an impression. I agree with your opinion on being able to get to the berth from three sides. In our last boat and this one, the berth was accessible from the foot and about 2/3 of the way up either side. It works out fine. We eliminated a lot of very nice boats because we didn't want a pullman style berth where one person would have to crawl over the other at night. I have prostate cancer and have to get up a lot during the night so that was a non starter.

Quote:
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A one week charter on either coast will put some feathers on the dart. Much like our last boat it'll bring into sharp focus desired features while separating the must haves from the nice to haves. Brand and layout of boat chartered is irrelevant. By the end of the week you'll have much clarity.
This is a great suggestion Werner. There are a number of bareboat charter companies both in the US and Canada here that would give you some practical experience in a boat design. I agree with Pseudonym that it won't matter what style boat you charter as you will learn about what works and doesn't work for you.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:48 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by dhays;
This is a great suggestion Werner. There are a number of bareboat charter companies both in the US and Canada here that would give you some practical experience in a boat design. I agree with Pseudonym that it won't matter what style boat you charter as you will learn about what works and doesn't work for you.
From where I sit, Werner has both geographic and financial limits that make a charter difficult. Travel to/from and a 1 week charter will blow a huge hole in his budget. For now, I think he has to just spend some money on gas getting to a major centre and jamb as many look sees into a weekend as he can.

Then get serious.

There seems to be zero to look at in his immediate area and I have no idea what Maine would yield.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:02 AM   #75
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I take that back.
A quick check show some decent product in Maine and these three would be worth a 2 day outing down the coast for education purposes.

Used 1983 Pt Pt41, Surry, Me - 04684 - BoatTrader.com

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1986-island-gypsy-trawler-102693304/

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1978-grand-banks-36-aft-cabin-102611748/


And more
http://www.boattrader.com/search-results/State-ME%7CMaine/NewOrUsed-any/Type-any/Sort-LengthESC/
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:27 AM   #76
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From where I sit, Werner has both geographic and financial limits that make a charter difficult. Travel to/from and a 1 week charter will blow a huge hole in his budget.
Very true HW. I just think some charter experience might allow him the experience to buy his second boat first.

Distance and dollars are a big issue. His goals are pretty aggressive for the budget available given the realities of trying to buy from across the continent.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:15 PM   #77
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Sorry, Werner, if it seems like we're talking about you like you're not here.
At the same time, we are really trying to help you establish some direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays;
Distance and dollars are a big issue. His goals are pretty aggressive for the budget available...
Yes. That's why I think his best short term approach is to get aboard as many free boats as he can so, as much as anything, he can build a reject list. For example, so many 70s boats are really dark inside...dark wood, small windows etc. that they would be cave dwellers on the BC coast. They might not realize that from pictures.

Course a salty old sail boater would enjoy that, right?
I always wondered where any enjoyment could be had, down in the bowels, peeking out a cell door slot at a duck peeking back at you.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:23 PM   #78
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Yup:
  • be your own boss
  • charter
  • walk the docks
  • go to many decent boat shows
  • arrange finances
  • look at about 20 different boats that have a fighting chance
  • be honest about your enjoyment of fixing things
  • join boatdiesel.com and read until dawn for a few weeks
  • don't mention Bayliner on a public forum, war will commence or an earthquake will occur
  • last but not least, ignore well intentioned people who want you to buy or not buy their favorite brand until you have seen said vessel in the flesh
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:03 PM   #79
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As hawgwash has noted, we do live in a remote area of Nova Scotia. No marinas with boats like on the west coast out here. This village is a fishing village on the largest tides on earth - fishing boats here that float high at the wharf at high tide and as 30 vertical feet of water leave, settle to sit on the bottom. Some pretty fancy rope work! As you can imagine, these fisherman have been doing this for generations. We get to chat with them, but walking the docks here aren't giving me much I can use out west or a pleasure boat. I did go look at a 34 ft Mainship over on PEI just to see what these boats you are talking about look like - but it sure wasn't anything like I see advertised out there on the west coast.

You folks have all been very helpful. I have started to understand a lot more about the boating fraternity out there. I guess when I started and saw boats like the CML C&C at a price we could afford - we wont be doing any financing as we are retired and if we cant pay cash we don't go - the dreams started. I didn't realize what these boats actually cost new, way out of my league for sure. So a 30 year old or older boat is what we would get it would seem. At first I had no reservations about that. There was a old boat out there called Otter Bay I almost jumped at for around 60,000. But then I started investigating the old surveyors blogs, and then this forum and realized maybe I should slow down. Things like old steel fuel tanks started racing around in the head - not a good thing to think of, 30 year old mild steel tanks holding hundreds of gallons of fuel in a highly corrosive environment. Then I started reading about the use of aluminum in newer fuel tanks but having worked in the aircraft structural repair industry for 18 years and seen what salt water does to aluminum I was still not so sure how smart a 30 year old boat is. BUt then again, there are a lot of very old boats still floating out there so what do I know. Nuthin.

Since we cant make it out west until October due to our retirement which gave a green light to every old friend from Denmark who have now decided to visit us this summer - so wont get a chance to travel around to look at boats much either I think. So I will give it a rest for while. It would be bad manners to the Danes to just buy a additional ticket for the flight across the rest of Canada if they want to visit. Once we get closer to October I will take a look at what is still out there. Then if Hawgwash is still feeling so generous I might see if we can join him on some informal boat surveys. So, again thanks a lot for all the great advice everyone. Enjoy your days out on the water. As we paddle the big tides of the Fundy in our sea-kayaks we will hopefully keep those west coast dreams alive!
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:25 PM   #80
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Held og lykke.
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