Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-22-2019, 09:30 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Leatherneck's Avatar
 
City: Tall Timbers Maryland
Vessel Name: Devil Dog
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 213
Taiwanese Trawler Deck Construction

Hi All!
I've been looking at getting my first trawler and have kinda focused on several 40 - 50 ft Taiwanese sundeck models in the 1985 - 1990 vintage. I was wondering what material was typically used when they constructed the decks. Specifically was it cored balsa wood or some other type of cored material? I like the layouts of the Marine Traders, Jeffersons and Californians in particular. I'm aware of the potential problems with water intrusion in these decks so will be cautious in that regard. Are balsa cored decks a particular problem?
Thanks!
George
Leatherneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 09:42 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Lutz
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 473
WOW! This is oft discussed here -so search it out. The opinions of most here is that teak decks are a plague on humanity if they are installed Taiwan style they are sure to fail and must be removed. Usually they are screwed with plugs into a top thin layer of fiberglass that usually sits on a layer of plywood which in turn sits on a thin layer of fiberglass. The multitude of screws leak rain water or any deck water and go into the plywood or whatever and rot it out and now you have weak stinky decks which many times continue the leaking into the boats interior.
geoleo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 09:48 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Leatherneck's Avatar
 
City: Tall Timbers Maryland
Vessel Name: Devil Dog
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 213
Yes, I've read a lot of the threads about the teak deck issues. I was reading the current "To Duflex or not to Duflex" post this evening and there was a discussion about balsa cored decks and foam cored decks. Seemed to not like the balsa cored decks. Was wondering which might be better and which style was typically used on the Taiwanese trawlers.
Thanks,
George
Leatherneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 09:54 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: Lutz
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 473
Many great boats have balsa cored hulls and decks and cabintops including many very costly ones. In Taiwan Trawlers its the teak screwed thru them that's the problem. Some PVC foam cored hulls do not last long if its underwater . Its all how quality control was done. This is a different issue than Taiwan teak Decks!!
geoleo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 09:56 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
City: Lutz
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 473
Many C&C sailboats are going strong without a problem after 40 years and the entire boat is balsa cored. These boats are primarily Ocean racers. Some are 61 ft long.
geoleo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 09:58 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Leatherneck's Avatar
 
City: Tall Timbers Maryland
Vessel Name: Devil Dog
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 213
Thanks GeoLeo. I think that answered my question. As usual, I will need a good survey with particular attention paid to the known Taiwanese trawler issues including the deck condition.
Leatherneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 10:03 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
Unfortunately there isn’t really any sure way to know what was used as core in the Taiwan built boats, apparently they used whatever they had on hand at the time in some yards. And it really doesn’t matter what was used, what matters is does it have teak decks and how was the deck maintained. If it has teak decks it almost certainly will have some wet core unless they have been repaired. As to maintenance, how were things bedded on the deck. Were the holes reefed out and thickened epoxy filled? Most likely not. Are you handy and willing to take on a wet core deck? It isn’t difficult technically but it is hard grunt work recoring the deck. My boat only has teak decks on the hardtop covered sundeck, fortunately. Even then with the fiberglass decks forward the bedding had not been done properly or maintained properly so there were several places that had been recored when I bought it.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 10:08 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Leatherneck's Avatar
 
City: Tall Timbers Maryland
Vessel Name: Devil Dog
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 213
Thanks for the added info Comodave. Useful stuff.
Leatherneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 10:13 PM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
After refinishing my teak decks on the sundeck this last winter, I wish I didn’t have even that much teak decking...
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 10:17 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Leatherneck's Avatar
 
City: Tall Timbers Maryland
Vessel Name: Devil Dog
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 213
Smile

It does look nice though.
Leatherneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 10:38 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
Not when you spend hundreds of hours on your knees working on it.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 12:06 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
City: Long Beach
Vessel Name: Checkmate
Vessel Model: GB 42
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 118
I’m sure this will draw the ire of some purists but the teak on my GB42 was in poor condition and was torn out by the previous owner. Holes were patched and the surface was primed with Awlgrip. Thankfully the Fiberglass on my boat deck is pretty stout and no underlying damage was noted by the Surveyor. It’s now been finished with Awlgrip and textured.

My point here is sometimes you get what you pay for. It appears that some Taiwanese manufacturers had inconsistent quality in their builds.
__________________
Jim Nance
T210DRVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 12:19 AM   #13
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,293
gjweston, the "Taiwanese Trawler" may not be consistent on deck construction, even within brand. My 1981 China/ Hong Kong boat has foam core decks. Take each one as you find it but yes, most likely construction is two fibreglass layers sandwiching teak offcuts between. Quite a few boats will have had the teak removed replaced with painted non skid f/glass, and the "real" deck underneath repaired. It is not a cheap job, look out for one of those.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 07:43 AM   #14
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,259
In my limited experience Taiwanese built trawlers vary GREATLY in build quality and materials used. It depended on what yard and even what CREW was doing the work. It seems many (most?) of those built in the 70's-80's used "local" wood between the decks. This usually means some kind of tropical hardwood. Fortunately, its much more rot resistant than balsa which in my experience was used on higher end boats and usually in those cases is properly encapsulated. (Balsa is extremely rot prone if it gets wet)

All that said, teak teaks done the old fashioned way (with many many screws) have to be maintained properly otherwise they do start to leak into the core.

For me, when I started looking for my trawler, if it had teak decks I would move along.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 08:54 AM   #15
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
I personally would guess that no Taiwanese trawler from the 60s-90s used high tech materials...meaning they used plywood not foam....


Exceptions? Sure a few but not a lot.


My 1988 Albin used teak plywood...and although wet for years before I bought her....the teak ply actually wasn't rotten...just de-laminated from the glass where people stepped down from the flybridge...the rest was solid and dried out nicely when I took off the teak screwed down decks.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 07:40 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
SeaMoose's Avatar
 
City: Anchor Pointe, Ohio
Vessel Name: Sea Moose
Vessel Model: 1976 34' D/C Taiwanese Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 360
You can’t have 1,000 holes in something that’s walked on and expect it won’t leak eventually no mater what high tech materials are used....
SeaMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 08:23 PM   #17
Guru
 
Donna's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
I have a 1986 marine trader sundeck. No teak decks. Mine are fiberglass. No soft spots. I do not know if there was a rehab of the decks before my purchase 3 years ago, but guessing, it’s original. I personally rolled and tipped all the decks and topside and if it was a rehab at some point, then it was a stellar job.
Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:09 PM   #18
Guru
 
78puget-trawler's Avatar
 
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
My old teak deck was leaking thru a few screw holes last year, found this out when I switched from covered to uncovered moorage. Dumb? Maybe. Covered was hitting $500 a month, a bit steep!
Anyway, removed the screws, on butts, which were moving around. Poured some penetrating epoxy into the screw holes several times and watched it vanish, then put the screws back in and pulled the butts back down. The leak was forward and running aft right around my bunk of course.
That did stop the leak but anticipating further such issues, I opted to paint the teak with Gluvit with tint, then painted it with thick brown porch and deck paint, two coats with non skid on the second. It don't leak and its holding up pretty well.
No way am I going to spend the required dollars or further ruin already bad knees (nearly 30 years of shipwright work) doing it the right way. These old tubs just aren't worth it.
78puget-trawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:57 PM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
Our boat only had teak decks on the mostly protected sundeck but the glass decks on the bow has a zillion stress cracks due to too thick gel coat. I sanded the deck smooth to get the non skid pattern off and painted it with Kiwigrip which covered all the stress cracks and now looks great and is very non skid.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 10:21 PM   #20
Guru
 
syjos's Avatar


 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
Sandpiper, a Taiwam built 1976 Bluewater Pilothouse has a solid fiberglass hull. But the decks, roofs and everything else above the hull is glass over mahogany plywood.

Inside and above the hull, it is constructed like a wood boat with mahogany frames, deck beams, stringers.

I was fortunate that the PO deleted teak decking except in the cockpit when he ordered the boat. He also deleted the teak railings.

The teak deck in the cockpit is fastened with screws directly to the plywood with a black elastic adhesive. I'm not sure if polysulfides were available then, but it looks like it. It could also be butyl too.

The differences between the various trawlers construction methods were largely due to the primitive boat building industry in Taiwan during the 60's and 80's. Builders were switching to FRP and slowly evolving their building methods as knowledge and techniques improved. First boats were FRP hull and glass over plywood deck and topsides. As mold building technology advanced, more and more topside molds were developed and coring became necessary for strength weight and cost.

Almost all Taiwan trawlers from the 70's and 80's use either plywood or end grain balsa coring in the decks. There were reports of the Taiwan yard using regular plywood for coring instead of marine plywood when the American manager was not in the shop.
syjos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cored decks, taiwanese

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012