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Old 01-30-2011, 07:03 PM   #1
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T&T Rejected my post

I responded to a post on T&T that related to buying waterfront property in Turkey Creek, FL.* The post that I responded to was from someone*who lived there and stated that it was a good place to buy a*house where you could dock your boat*out back*and be safe from hurricanes.

My response was blocked by the list administrator. All I did was say that if one should settle there that they might run into FF.

What gives?
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:15 PM   #2
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T&T Rejected my post

I stopped posting at T&T a long time ago. The posts are so over moderated and the moderator very unprofessional in my opinion. There are to many boating sites out there, to put up with that kind of petty power mindedness. Chuck

-- Edited by Capn Chuck on Sunday 30th of January 2011 08:16:15 PM
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:40 AM   #3
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T&T Rejected my post

What was the subject line of your reply? T&T has a lot of filters that can lock out a legit post because the subject line contains some trigger word.* FF was banned from T&T a long time ago and it may even be that the inclusion of those two letters triggered something.* But I don't know if their filters apply to a message body as well as the subject-- they may not.

Also, T&T, being an e-mail list, goes out to everyone who subscribes whether they want it or not. Subscribers get every single post, individually or as the daily digest, every day. This can often amount to well over a hundred posts. A number of people on the T&T list are full-time cruisers and get their e-mail and internet via a mobile phone connection. So it's understandable when some of these folks get upset at receiving messages that aren't directly related to "trawlers and trawlering" because it costs them money to receive them.

If T&T was not actively moderated it would not be long before it became the e-mail equivalent of the OTDE section of this forum. You know how many posts things like guns, politics, and religion can generate. Imagine if you were receiving every single post to this forum, including OTDE, as an e-mail message.* I believe &T has over 1,000 active participants.* So imagine how many posts that many people would generate if they had a free hand to say whatever they wanted to say, on-topic of off-topic.* With a forum application like TrawlerForum, you open the forum on your browser and then can read nothing, read everything, or pick and choose. You don't have this choice with T&T. You don't have to read any of it, but you're still going to get all of it via e-mail.

So I don't blame the T&T people for very strictly moderating their mailing list. There are some very experienced boaters on T&T and a lot of good information is obtainable there. But the nature of the beast means it has to be kept very strictly on-topic or it would get too unwieldy for the participants to want to use.

If you want to see what will happen to a completely unmoderated internet "forum" take a look at a newsgroup sometime.* I don't even know if newsgroups are still used--- I haven't participated in any for years.* But at the time, even the groups like rec.boating were almost completely taken up by threads that had degenerated into vicious personal attacks between people over everything from the type of boats they had to the best way to bleed a diesel engine.



-- Edited by Marin on Monday 31st of January 2011 01:49:22 AM
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:57 AM   #4
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

I haven't had anything blocked in a long time, but when I did, I just sent it again with a different subject line.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:35 AM   #5
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Uhhhh---- Shaggy Dog story Doc --* run into FF ??
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:48 AM   #6
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

And the very reason for this forum!!!

Marin, you forgot in your list of "off topics"....aviation related stuff....
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:00 AM   #7
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Ok. I'll bite. Why did FF get banned from T&T?
And 2nd question- why do the still utilize an email platform? It makes no sense for anyone to still use that method- so many smart phones out there that are great for web browsing, even if cruising full time!
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:10 AM   #8
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

The subject line was :Where to buy? and FF was mentioned in the text only.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:57 AM   #9
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:

Ok. I'll bite. Why did FF get banned from T&T?
And 2nd question- why do the still utilize an email platform? It makes no sense for anyone to still use that method- so many smart phones out there that are great for web browsing, even if cruising full time!
You must realize the trawler demographic....I know you do....and then you will realize that demographic is very resistant to change. *When we started this forum, there were no others like it....NONE.....except of course PMM(PMM was practically unuseable with my 20mbps connection so I don't consider it an alternative). *Bottom line, there are many people that are comfortable with the email format(because it is a necessity to keep in touch with family) but still hesitant to roam freely on the WWW.

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:58 AM   #10
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Doc, it is very likely that subject was flagged because it was not trawler related. Simple as that.
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:00 AM   #11
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T&T Rejected my post

Tony--- I don't know the reasoning behind the T&T moderators' decision to remove FF from the T&T access list. I believe they have a policy of warning participants directly if their posts are being deemed inappropriate but they don't publicize these warnings. If the participant doesn't agree with the moderators and continues posting whatever it is they've been asked to stop posting they can be blocked from using the list.

T&T does have a pretty extensive description of the list "rules" on the website where you subscribe to the list so it's not like their guidelines are not out there for people to read. I know they have removed people who used the list to promote their businesses--- yacht brokers and the manufacturer of a battery isolator system are two examples that I recall.

I suppose they maintain the e-mail platform format because that's the way it was started and there may still be distribution advantages for many of the participants. This is a generality for sure, but the majority of trawler owners are older folks for the same reason the majority of Ferrari owners are older folks--- that's the group with the most discretionary income. And a lot of older folks are somewhat to very resistant to new technology. I've met a lot of older people who don't want anything to do with things like smartphones, iPads, etc. I'm sure you have, too. Part of this is pretty understandable-- the small screen of a smartphone is not easy to read if your eyes are not what they used to be.

And the cost of hosting an e-mail-based forum may be much lower than the cost of hosting a forum like this one with photos and whatnot, I don't know. In any event, it appears that the popularity of T&T continues today using the same e-mail format it started with.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 31st of January 2011 12:26:15 PM
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:14 AM   #12
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Quote:
Marin wrote:

And a lot of older folks are somewhat to very resistant to new technology.
Oh trust me- I hear you loud and clear on that one! *Ask me about my Monk forum someday hahaha. *Talk about some old folks not liking change.... **

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:40 AM   #13
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Baker said:

Doc, it is very likely that subject was flagged because it was not trawler related. Simple as that.

I don't think so. I was about the 20th poster on that subject line.
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:45 AM   #14
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Quote:
Doc wrote:

Baker said:

Doc, it is very likely that subject was flagged because it was not trawler related. Simple as that.

I don't think so. I was about the 20th poster on that subject line.
There are times when a T&T moderator will decide that a thread that has drifted off-topic has gone on long enough and they will filter the subject.* However when they do this they generally notify people continuing to post with this subject line that the subject has been discontinued.* I believe these notices are automated reponses.

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:47 PM   #15
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Well all I can say is I was admonished like a child and warned that if I did it again, I would be kicked off. My infraction was thanking someone that had been very helpful. So to Marin, If this is the moderation "needed" perhaps that is why many I have been in contact with have left T&T, and these are also very experienced and knowledgeable boaters. Chuck
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:26 PM   #16
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Quote:
Capn Chuck wrote:

...If this is the moderation "needed" perhaps that is why many I have been in contact with have left T&T, and these are also very experienced and knowledgeable boaters. Chuck
It all depends on what you want in a forum, regarldless of how experienced or knowledgeable a boater you are.* If T&T was totally unmoderated, it would quickly become the equivelant of a newsgroup.* In other words, picture an e-mail version of the OTDE section of this forum.*

Most of the people I am aware of who have been filtered off T&T tended to post very off-topic posts or comments that quickly steered an on-topic post in a direction totally unrelated to boating.* The classic example is guns.* A "legitimate" query to T&T about regulations applying to taking a firearm into Canada on a boat-- and these come up periodically on T&T--- almost immediately turns into a discussion on gun rights in general and then into politics with the same heated, personal posts we get here on OTDE.* Only instead of a relatively few number of posters you get hundreds.* Would you want to be receiving hundreds of post every day concerning gun rights and the politics involved?* In addition to all the other posts you'd be getting on all the other topics discussed on T&T?* If a person feels strongly about gun rights one way or the other, perhaps he or she would.* But most people aren't that interested.

Given their chosen venue, I don't blame the hosts and adminstrators of T&T for being as strict as they are.* And from the comments I see from time to time, most of the regulars on that list seem to appreciate the effort to keep the list on track.

Obviously people who want to take discussions off in different directions or use the T&T list as a soapbox for their own political, religious, social, or whatever views don't like it when they get censored or perhaps banned.* But that's not why the list was created and because of the e-mail format they chose the only way to prevent it from becoming a free-for-all on every topic under the sun is to strictly moderate it.

Our yacht club has monthly meetings and there is an agenda for that meeting.* When a discussion about some agenda item starts straying too far abroad or getting personal, the people running the meeting step in and and haul the meeting back on track.* T&T is no different.

The good news is that people don't have to subscribe to it.* If you like a free-flowing forum where participants can move a discussion any direction they want, even completely off the topic, and get as personal as they want in their criticisms and comments, then T&T is probably not something they would want to participate in.

This forum is pretty wide open but even here John has moved in on occasion and shut down a discussion he felt was straying too far afield.

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:53 PM   #17
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

"Well all I can say is I was admonished like a child and warned that if I did it again, I would be kicked off"

Hey Chuck* I have also been there.
Now I*reply privately to those who ask the question if I reply at all. I mostly scan it for it's (comedy) entertainment value.
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:28 PM   #18
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:

Is steering "off topic" similiar to steering "off course" ??? After all, these ARE boating forums.
hmmm...taking that analogy, Baker is like our online Towboat U.S.!

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Old 01-31-2011, 05:19 PM   #19
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

Quote:
Marin wrote:

*
Capn Chuck wrote:
It all depends on what you want in a forum, regarldless of how experienced or knowledgeable a boater you are.* If T&T was totally unmoderated, it would quickly become the equivelant of a newsgroup.* In other words, picture an e-mail version of the OTDE section of this forum.*
No one is suggesting that any discussion forum go un-moderated. I moderate our Discussion Board. But the excessive heavy handed moderation, in my opinion, on T&T makes to stifle discussion rather than encourage it. Even heavy handed moderation can be done with a reasonable amount of professionalism and civility. Not at T&T from my experience. What that leaves is a very narrow platform composed of those that are comfortable in that environment and a discouragement to potential new members. But then, that is just my opinion. Chuck

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:37 PM   #20
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RE: T&T Rejected my post

"What that leaves is a very narrow platform composed of those that are comfortable in that environment and a discouragement to potential new members. But then, that is just my opinion. Chuck"

Not just your opinion Chuck. *One or two of us agree
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