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Old 04-08-2019, 08:31 AM   #1
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Survey Says. Questions?

So I have finally found a boat pending survey. This may sound like I am cheap but I have been through one unsuccessful survey already. So the boat in question has twin diesels. I am having the boat surveyed and the engines surveyed as well. Engine surveyor want to do it at the same time. What if the boat surveyor finds something wrong which will negate the sale? I will be stuck paying for 2 surveys? Would it be better have the done separately?
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:59 AM   #2
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"Would it be better have the done separately?"
It could be more economical to do the mech one after a hull survey is complete if you choose not to proceed but it depends some on the logistics as well.
Prior to ay survey I would be as sure as possible about the boats history, mechanical maintenance, the ownership trail and ability of the 'owner' to sell, and an exact list of what transfers with the sale.
I see you are in Pt Jeff - one of first purchased used boats was at OldMans Boatyard there.
Good luck with the purchase.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:01 AM   #3
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I do engine surveys as part of my business. Yes, if hull surveyor finds a deal killer, you still owe the engine surveyor. If this happens and my services are no longer needed, I will not bill for the whole thing, but I will still bill for a portion, what ever seems fair. But engine surveyor may be a stickler and demand the contracted amount you agreed to. But that would be a bit of "dick" move.

Edit: I too like doing my part on the same day as hull. We often form a bit of a team and I think the quality of the job with us working together is better than if done separately. Have done it separately also, but that means boat leaves the dock twice with all that entails. I like seeing the running gear out of the water, too.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:04 AM   #4
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That's what happened to the last boat, after two hours the surveyor looked at me and said do you want me to continue or just pay for my time. I paid him $200 and off he went. I also have a haul out scheduled, engine surveyor required to have the boat out of the water?
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:13 AM   #5
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I want the boat hauled so I can be absolutely certain the bottom and running gear are clean and not damaged. Otherwise, the engine data I take may not be any good. A diver cleaned bottom might not be that clean!! And I get low rpm numbers because of a sloppy diver. Turns into a mess.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:02 AM   #6
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You say you have been through an "unsuccessful" survey. I would argue that there is no such thing as an unsuccessful survey, and you may be looking at this wrong.


The previous survey told you something that you didn't know about the boat. That is the whole point of a survey. The survey was very successful, in that it prevented you from making a very expensive mistake. A mistake that would have probably cost far, FAR more than the survey did.


Do a thorough inspection of the boat yourself, to make sure that it is even worth the cost of a survey, and then think of the survey as insurance -- spending a little to be sure that you don't make a very costly mistake.


Good luck to you.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
You say you have been through an "unsuccessful" survey. I would argue that there is no such thing as an unsuccessful survey, and you may be looking at this wrong.


The previous survey told you something that you didn't know about the boat. That is the whole point of a survey. The survey was very successful, in that it prevented you from making a very expensive mistake. A mistake that would have probably cost far, FAR more than the survey did.


Do a thorough inspection of the boat yourself, to make sure that it is even worth the cost of a survey, and then think of the survey as insurance -- spending a little to be sure that you don't make a very costly mistake.


Good luck to you.
I agree.

Better to find out during the survey than find a $20K defect. You may want to re-evaluate your position.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:25 PM   #8
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I agree as well, I was just saying why do an engine survey if the boat doesn’t pass the survey. But I guess it makes no sense to pay for two haul outs.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:27 PM   #9
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I agree as well, I was just saying why do an engine survey if the boat doesn’t pass the survey. But I guess it makes no sense to pay for two haul outs.
Like I mentioned - it depends upon the logistics.
If your present for your hull survey and haul out then the condition of the bottom and running gear will be clearly known.
If present and the hull surveyor finds a significant issue early on you can decide if you want to continue. If the mechanical survey is scheduled for a week later and there is no reason to perform it then why do it?
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:45 PM   #10
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Like I mentioned - it depends upon the logistics.
If your present for your hull survey and haul out then the condition of the bottom and running gear will be clearly known.
If present and the hull surveyor finds a significant issue early on you can decide if you want to continue. If the mechanical survey is scheduled for a week later and there is no reason to perform it then why do it?
Engine Surveyor wants to come same day and he will be their before boat surveyor. Does he need to see prop shafts etc in the course of his engine survey?
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:04 PM   #11
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Do the hull survey and haul out first. Take video to show the engine surveyor of the running gear and bottom. The engine guy is a must for the sea trial, he should also do the gen set. Hull guy should come if he feels it is necessary. This is not a place to cut corners.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:43 PM   #12
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When I am buying a boat I spend at least 4 hours and preferably a whole day looking and digging around on my own before the survey. I pretty much know how the survey will go before it happens. The last surveyor asked me why I am not a surveyor since I told him almost everything he found before he did the survey. So I would look the boat over by yourself first before the survey and you may save the cost of a survey if the boat is a dog.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:24 PM   #13
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If you want to get screwed, tell your surveyors how to do their job. If your engine guy wants to be there for the boat haul out then I doubt pictures will be acceptable. The hull surveyor is going to sea trial the boat. The seller might not be too keen on two sea trials.

I am curious what the surveyor found on the last boat. I have only once seen a boat that failed survey. Serious bottom blisters were found when the boat was hauled out. Almost everything else can be repaired by the seller.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:52 PM   #14
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I understand, but

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
I do engine surveys as part of my business. Yes, if hull surveyor finds a deal killer, you still owe the engine surveyor. If this happens and my services are no longer needed, I will not bill for the whole thing, but I will still bill for a portion, what ever seems fair. But engine surveyor may be a stickler and demand the contracted amount you agreed to. But that would be a bit of "dick" move.

Edit: I too like doing my part on the same day as hull. We often form a bit of a team and I think the quality of the job with us working together is better than if done separately. Have done it separately also, but that means boat leaves the dock twice with all that entails. I like seeing the running gear out of the water, too.
I like to be looking over the surveyor’s shoulder so that when something is found, I am right there seeing what he is seeing. I found when I surveyed my current boat, the engine and Hull were being surveyed at the same time, and I had a difficult time figuring out where to be and what to look at.

I told myself after that experience to conduct the survey over two days. I appreciate the mechanics wanting to see the condition of the Hull. I think however a few pictures and some descriptions would go along way to describe how clean the props and Hull are.

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Old 04-08-2019, 08:58 PM   #15
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Hi all,

I like having the engine inspector and surveyor there from the beginning through the end, or close to it. Why?

I want the engine inspector to see the engine starts from totally cold, which is important to assess compression. I want the inspector to see the smoke volume, color, and how it clears and if it comes back. I want the inspector to be able to listen to it hunt, if it does. I also want the engine inspector there for the sea trial to pay attention to the warm-up curve, where the thermostats kick in, that temps level off, to check for leaks and blow by while it is running, to hear the engine under different RPMs. I want the engine inspector to be able to safely and comfortable crawl around every nook and cranny and get a good look while it is cold. And, I want the engine inspector to do the best possible while it is running and upon return to the slip to check it over again to see what developed underway.

I know it wastes some of the inspectors time to tag around during the haul out, but it is usually fast. And, the surveyor can normally do the initial inventory while the mechanic is does the initial cold inspection, etc.

I've more often bailed on buying something because of the engine inspection than the survey. I think that's because, as a buyer, I can look around the hull, house, and decks -- but am not allowed to start the engines.

Regardless, I've often wondered if I could do the mechanical inspection first, and if a boat passes, then the survey. But, this would require two sea trials, which would be more costly -- and probably would not be easy to get organized with the owner, brokers, captains, etc.

So, ultimately, I'm willing to pay the piper to get a detailed engine survey.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:03 PM   #16
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We had our hull and mechanical survey at the same time. I liked the idea of getting everything done in one day but I'll say I found the amount of information coming at me in single day completely overwhelming. In retrospect I would've preferred to have had one day on the hull and systems and the other the the engines and generator. That said, it was out first trawler purchase so we may have been overwhelmed no matter the order of operations.

I can also see where two sea trials and two haul outs would eliminate any costs savings so if I were you I'd just ask the engine surveyor what to expect if the hull survey fails the boat early on.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:40 PM   #17
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I`m finding brokers happy to start engines, and genset, even without asking. If they run nice and quiet, it`s a selling point, if they don`t the broker might be less willing.
There is an overlap between general and mechanical survey. I think you`re stuck with doing the two together, but if you are really concerned about one or other, maybe separate them and do that one first. We had one surveyor here who did both, but it seemed to me, and the relieved selling brokers, he never found a boat he didn`t love.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:21 PM   #18
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OP: Your first boat didn't pan out and now you're already thinking that this one could possibly be the same?? Maybe raise your standards a tad.

I don't mean to sound rude (and sorry if I come across like that).

I like to go into a boat purchase with high expectations because I've narrowed down my choices and found the best fit for me.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:23 AM   #19
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"I`m finding brokers happy to start engines, and genset, even without asking. If they run nice and quiet, it`s a selling point, if they don`t the broker might be less willing."

That's a broker that should be fired!!!

As boats may be for sale for months not days , some owners will shut sea cocks , just in case
A few boats with tank fuel cutoffs or other fuel securing systems might be run out of fuel to the engine.

Will the broker come back and bleed the engines and pay for repair of overheated engine or noisemaker?
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Old 04-09-2019, 07:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1 View Post
If you want to get screwed, tell your surveyors how to do their job. If your engine guy wants to be there for the boat haul out then I doubt pictures will be acceptable. The hull surveyor is going to sea trial the boat. The seller might not be too keen on two sea trials.

I am curious what the surveyor found on the last boat. I have only once seen a boat that failed survey. Serious bottom blisters were found when the boat was hauled out. Almost everything else can be repaired by the seller.
Leaking fuel tanks and soft decks.
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