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Old 12-13-2014, 10:37 PM   #21
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Three variables.

The seller believes they are sitting on a 'gold mine' and are perplexed at your claims.

The buyer is trying to negotiate a lower price.

The buyer AND seller have to agree on a price.


How the price is agreed is part of negotiation. This is adjusted either by having the seller do the required repairs for asking price, or the buyer getting a lower price (and having the repairs done to satisfy the insurance co) BUT, the unknown is.... if the repairs exceed what the buyer negotiated in the sales price.

Two things to keep in mind. Once you make the deal, your insurance co will know the results of the survey. Then you will have to show compliance with the recommendations. If you have concluded the deal then the rest is up to you. If the deal hinges upon successful repairs then it's on the seller. This costs more in the price generally. The unknown is a gamble. If you have a stomach for gambling, then go for a lower price, and finish the repairs yourself. If you don't feel like gambling, then have the owner do it (but risk the deal falling through)
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:07 AM   #22
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A USED boat is , well used , so perfection is not required .

The biggest hassels I have seen is when a buyer does not hold back enough money on a NEW boat that then fails survey.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:18 AM   #23
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About three years ago I was looking at a 33 ft Hans Christian sailboat . It needed a lot of work , rotten bow sprit bad teak decks and all the running rigging needed replaced . It needed a new head the original was gone. The owner wanted 60 k . I offered him 30 with no survey and no questions . We agreed on 45 if the survey came to that . I tarped the boat because it couldn't stand it getting any wetter than it was. I worked with the broker a full day to get this boat ready for survey . I wanted it bad if you can't tell by now . I met the surveyor at the boat the next day . About halfway into the survey the surveyor stopped and asked me where we were at on the price. I told him I offered 30 and we agreed on 45 with survey . He said I can continue but your original offer is what it's worth . He only charged me for 1/2 of the survey . I still wanted the boat bad because I knew I could fix everything myself and the boat was on the waterway where I' m at so no trucking involved . My final offer was 40 k. I was also looking at the trawler that I have now on yacht world and had several ccnverstions with the owner/ broker but had not gone to look at
yet . The owner of the Hans Christian stood firm on the 45 k . I told him I was looking at a trawler and was probably going to get it . The day before I flew out to see the trawler they came back with a counter at 43,500 , not even splitting the differenceon a boat that was only worth 30 k . I bought the trawler that I have now and the Hans Christian is still for sale today .
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:07 AM   #24
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Bottom line....whatever the contract says.

I have seen it go to lawyers both ways when one or the other side didn't read the contract carefully enough.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:22 AM   #25
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Seems as though having survey in hand before makeing an offer might be best way to go
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:09 AM   #26
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In my view significant items that were undisclosed or undiscovered prior to survey need to be negotiated regardless of offer price. There is no such thing as an as is offer. Buyers make offers based upon what they know. Surveys are conducted to learn what may be unknown by sellers and buyers.

Dependent upon offers are the little things. If you are giving all the money for the boat then you should get all the boat. If you are giving some of the money then you may be willing to accept some issues. That is the gray area and every deal is different.

Surveys occasionally end with the discovery of "showstoppers". Sometimes the deals just fall apart from all the little things adding up to more than a buyer can stomach.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:22 AM   #27
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I considered two vessels for purchase that had the NT855s. Some have dry exhaust manifolds with soot leakage that really makes a mess of things and clogs air filters. Largely irreparable too as the engines were designed for truck and equipment use where minor leakage is not an issue. Tony Athens is quire familiar with these engines and this issue. Communicate with him as you're in SoCal.

A white glove inspection will reveal the extent of problems, if any.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:30 AM   #28
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Let the buyer beware. If you don't know yourself. Hire the best surveyor you can find. Make an offer based on the findings. It's all about your negotiating skills.
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:51 PM   #29
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Seems as though having survey in hand before makeing an offer might be best way to go
Its kind of hard to survey a vsl you don't have under contract. The seller is under no obligation to sell the vsl to you at any price.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:43 PM   #30
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Its kind of hard to survey a vsl you don't have under contract. The seller is under no obligation to sell the vsl to you at any price.
Yep there has been a lot of money spent on surveys that the deal never closes. I've done it twice
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:08 PM   #31
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thanks to all for your replies so far. At this stage the broker has my survey list of major items to view for himelf. He was on the sea trial and there at the survey also and knows the surveyor. The broker is well aware of the issues and can not be in denial now about his advertised claim that the boat is for sale in "as new" condition...i made my initial offer based on surface level inspection and the boat being as described. Obvisouly the boat has not lived up to critical mechanical or electrical standards. The broker knows this...he has seen my list amd forwarded it to the owner who has instructed a marine electrician amd the mechanic get on the boat asap to fix this stuff. So that is good. But the out of water survey is yet to happen. So that will be interesting...even if all internal issues are resolved and most of them involve fixing and not renewing things, it could all fall over if there is osmosis or cutless bearings are stuffed etc. Time will tell. Supposed to come out pf water this week.

There are certain items i would prefer to have fixed myslef with people i trust. Exhaust fabrication is pretty easy for my mechanic to do but is a 2000 issue. Engine not reaching rpm is a pikely fuel restriction or pump issue as no smoke was pouring out the exhaust to indicate a turbo or air issue. Anyway new turbos are cheap at around 700 compaeed to maybe chasing a problem all over the place. Either way it must be fixed by seller. He acknowledges this.

if amd when it all happens i shall let you know ajd poat photos.Benn this is not the boat i spoke to you about some time ago...different boat. In the emd i could not do the wood boat thing ..i know It is not for me...i admire them but can not do the looking after as required.

Should be interesting to see how it all goes amd yes i will walk no problem if it is not what i want but i am not petty either so will let minor things slide as i can sort them out myself. The boat suits us perfectly and is a "no compromise" boat for us. This is rare. Today i am in FOrt Lauderdale ajd looked at a 70ft Hatteras cpmy and rwalise this boat is not what we want. The search will go on but in Australia we are limited compared to USA.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:32 PM   #32
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This thread is very interesting to me as I am about to start the survey now on a potential new to me boat. Because it is a 30 year old Taiwanese boat that has been neglected I expect the surveyor will find many things. What they are and how they will be resolved will be interesting.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:43 PM   #33
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The "as new" claim is embarrassing for the seller. "Ok Mr Seller, put it into the advertised condition and I`ll buy". That kind of stuff is called "puff"(sales talk), creating no legal obligation (here at least), but great for negotiating.
Some sellers won`t negotiate at all post survey. Probably leads to many an unsold boat, but leaves the buyer unhappy and out of pocket.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:57 PM   #34
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Yep, at the end of the day it all comes down to the simple old issues of what the seller is willing to accept (and fix), and the buyer is willing to pay (and fix).
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:46 PM   #35
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On the advice of our broker, when we made an offer on the boat we own today in the PNW, we made the offer contingent upon three things.

1. The boat was what the seller was representing it to be-- a stock Grand Banks 36 with no wierd mofications or other changes that made the boat not what we expected it to be (we had not seen the boat yet, we only had the selling broker's pre-listing spec sheet).

2. The boat was satisfactory on our own checkout and inspection and sea trial.

3. The boat did well on the hull/systems and engine/generator surveys we would have done at our expense, with no unexpected major problems discovered.

Only if these three conditions were met were we committed to honoring our offer.

It should be noted that the seller was eager to sell the boat because he'd just bought a nearly-new GB46 (our offer had been transmitted to him as he was driving his boat to Alameda, CA from Vanvouver, BC) and he didn't want to own two boats. So his selling price was very reasonable given the age of the boat. So we were very happy with the price he was asking, as long as the three conditions above were met

The seller agreed to our conditions and we went down to California to proceed with our inspection, sea trial, and surveys.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:47 PM   #36
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Oh good, sounds like everybody is happy so far. Nice when it works out that way.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:19 AM   #37
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This was in 1998. Obviously, everything went smoothly.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:43 AM   #38
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Yep, at the end of the day it all comes down to the simple old issues of what the seller is willing to accept (and fix), and the buyer is willing to pay (and fix).
Or maybe the buyer needs to keep looking. As the "gotchas" keep coming think of the problems the seller is hoping you don't find.

What model, size of vessel is this again?
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