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Old 12-16-2012, 10:19 PM   #101
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But re what psneeld said I agree w as I've seen FG boats that have been pounded to death on exposed beaches and it's obvious they put up a very commendable fight.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:31 PM   #102
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:42 PM   #103
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Good Gawwddd Marin that's not a pretty sight!

However tough or strong that boat was .. it lost the battle.

I see it's FG. Wood GB would probably be scattered.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #104
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A junk-built wood boat or a junk-built fiberglass boat are both just that - JUNK-BUILT BOATS! A well-built wood boat or a well-built fiberglass boat are both just that - WELL-BUILT BOATS!

THE DIFFERENCE IS (for well-built boats):
1. Wood softens/rots, fasteners loosen/corrode, and worms can bore in. That said - there are ways to limit these wood afflictions and there is (nearly) always a way to rebuild damaged wood... albeit sometimes at great effort/expense. And, some wood types and original build-out methods are considerably less likely to experience the detrimental afflictions therefore being easier to maintain and requiring less repair efforts.
2. Fiberglass can get brittle, have blisters develop, and allow enough water intrusion into the fiber mats and resin that the entire area softens to point of failure/delaminating. That said – there are ways to limit these fiberglass afflictions and there is (nearly) always a way to rebuild damaged fiberglass... albeit sometimes at great effort/expense. And, some fiberglass resin and fiber cloth as well as original build-out methods are considerably less likely to experience the detrimental afflictions therefore being easier to maintain and requiring less repair efforts.

So, I say: If you like wood or you like fiberglass boats (or steel or aluminum boats – each also having their needs for good material, correct build-out, and maintenance) just make sure your boat was well built to begin with and then care for it as its particular material and original build-out methods dictate/require. But, most importantly in the life of “Pleasure Boating” - - Enjoy Yourself as much as possible... cause this life we lead has no second play! This Is It – Good Luck!!
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:05 AM   #105
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The wooden stern appeared to hold up well...
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:34 AM   #106
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Marin - After seeing your picts of thrashed GB on beach... I went into my post just below yours and added the word "(nearly)" in two locations re wood and fiberglass! lol
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:37 AM   #107
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Spy-- As I'm sure you know but for anyone who doesn't, the "wood" transom on a GB is just decorative teak planks screwed into a recess on the full-thickness fiberglass transom.

Eric--- These photos were originally posted by another Forum member after the tidal surges following the Japanese earthquake/tsunami the other year. The boat was washed out of the Brookings, Oregon harbor and down the coast. At some point it was washed ashore and beat up by the waves.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:06 AM   #108
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Just for S&G - Here's a pict of 40 Tollycraft that a few years ago hit beach at some 12 to 14 knots in PNW (old folks fell asleep while on AP). Some of you in this forum might recognize the location!?!? Article said no one hurt and no hull damage, just beat-up drive train underwater parts. I guess a good wood hull would probably be fairly OK too, seeing as the gravel/sand beach-slide had gradual elevation change!
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:19 AM   #109
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A good reason to have a single, keel-protected propeller/rudder.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:31 AM   #110
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A good reason to have a single, keel-protected propeller/rudder.
Mark - You got that one right! That is if you plan to skid onto a beach, or not watch your depth finder closely so you keep boat in deep enough waters, or simply don't pilot from fly bridge so you can see dead heads and other debris in order to miss em! I always pilot from bridge... except in the most severe weather conditions... then I might wish I had full skeg and keel for prop protection if debris went under our hull. Boat Ownership = Trade Offs!
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:12 AM   #111
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Fiberglass can get brittle,

True but of no consequence IF we are discussing well built boats.

A boat hull needs a 400% safety margin to get USCG cert to carry over 6 pax.

This is figured as an open top tea cup, the internal structure or deck does not count .

At this excellent level of construction the boat basically does not flex , so resin becoming a bit more brittle over the decades is meaningless.

Those cracks under step surfaces etc , are examples of too thin too weak construction, an overload flexed the surface too far.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:53 AM   #112
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A boat hull needs a 400% safety margin to get USCG cert to carry over 6 pax.


Where did that little gem come from?
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:29 AM   #113
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You're right psneeld. Wood boats don't have a good reputation for puncture resistance. And I'll admit that one of the reasons I bought the Willard is that it has a robust hull. I hit a rock at anchor w Willy and still can't figure out how it could seem like we hit so hard. No damage. Hit a log in Clearance Strait at cruising speed and it went BOOM! I thought for sure we'd been holed. Threw the hatches open looked everywhere but no water came aboard. Hit a full grown Humpback whale (T boned him) at over 6 knots and stopped in about 2'. No damage I THINK. But there is what appears to be a verticle crack on the leading edge right where we hit the whale. Gonna grind a bit and put a FG expert on it to see if all's well.

But I think puncture resistance w planked hulls and plywood hulls ate not to be compared as anywhere equal. Plywood has incredible puncture resistance but it's only as strong as the keels, chine logs and fasteners that hold it in place. If you use epoxy, FG, filler and radised overlays it may be stronger than a 100% FG boat. But of course it's not then a wood boat ... or is it? The only larger boat I built was a plywood boat and I don't think I could have built it out of FG.. I don't think it could have taken the beating at sea that I gave the plywood boat. I've been known to jump the wake of the ferry Wikersham (an older sea going Alaska State ferry) going 21 knots at close to that speed myself. A very airborne and bent leg experience. The plywood boat seemed to think it was fun too.

And I think cold moulded and other composite hulls are stronger than FG by a long shot.

But a planked hull like carvel or batten seam construction would not be so puncture resistant but the ability to take a smashing from waves and seas are probably right up there.

But re what psneeld said I agree w as I've seen FG boats that have been pounded to death on exposed beaches and it's obvious they put up a very commendable fight.
Who's talking puncture resistance? I'm talking mostly popped planks....the USCG is fed up with the requirement to inspect fastenings on commercial planked inspected vessels because they get beat up for making owners tear into their boat too often...but as many that pop a plank and sink...what are ya gonna do?

And as far as taking a beating...a mild chop will pop a plank if the fasteners have all but disintegrated...and there's the rub...you never know their condition without pulling a plank and inspecting. A well made planked boat may last for hundreds of years...but it only takes an unusual set of circumstances for some fastenings to deteriorate and once you pop a plank the chances of saving the boat are pretty low....unless like any sinking boat you get her beached fast.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:02 PM   #114
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Fiberglass boats have plenty of examples of landing on rocks or reefs and grinding away for hours with little or no damage while wood boats in a few feet of chop let alone hitting a deadhead have popped a plank and sank.

The USCG has all but legislated against planked wooden vessels for inspected vessels... I wonder why...
thanks, wasnt aware of that. I was speaking from my experiance and i have seen glass shatter but never wood. wood also tends to float whereis glass goes down like a rock.
I'm gonna ask my insurance company for some numbers on this issue
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:06 PM   #115
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thanks, wasnt aware of that. I was speaking from my experiance and i have seen glass shatter but never wood. wood also tends to float whereis glass goes down like a rock.
I'm gonna ask my insurance company for some numbers on this issue
Good luck...
By the way fiberglass doesn't "shatter"....
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:46 PM   #116
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Good luck...
By the way fiberglass doesn't "shatter"....
it can and does splinter depending upon how it was layed up but then so does wood
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:32 AM   #117
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Mark - You got that one right! That is if you plan to skid onto a beach, or not watch your depth finder closely so you keep boat in deep enough waters, or simply don't pilot from fly bridge so you can see dead heads and other debris in order to miss em! I always pilot from bridge... except in the most severe weather conditions... then I might wish I had full skeg and keel for prop protection if debris went under our hull. Boat Ownership = Trade Offs!
I agree, but perhaps your dislike of the view from the pilothouse is because the dinghy is blocking your view.

Good view from my pilothouse:

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Old 12-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #118
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I agree, but perhaps your dislike of the view from the pilothouse is because the dinghy is blocking your view.

Good view from my pilothouse:

That rubber-ducky dink is long gone! For years now, we have a classic fiberglass Crestliner tow-behind 50 hp o/b runabout with snap to windshield bimini.

Nothing against your pilothouse view, cause it does look nice in the pict and Iím sure it suits you well!! But... from a pilothouse the actual viewing capability as compared to fly bridge simply has no comparison, in may ways! As is true in boating Ė thereís always a trade off!

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Old 12-18-2012, 12:15 PM   #119
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Here's my bow and there's no maze of metal tubing, big anchor or bow pulpit to mess it up either. And the "railing" is small wire like a sailboat. I'm very keen on my good view forward.

This is an edit,
I'm trying not to do thread creep and here I go/went again. Sorry.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:37 PM   #120
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dont care for the flexible railing but love the wrap around pilot house veiw. I've looked at many boats but the only one that had that, right, feel about it was a willard like yours with a flybridge named Loki. I think that feeling came because of her over all design and seaworthy look. However, the v berth was small without head room. I did love the lower helm station with the nice chart table directly behind the helm station.
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