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Old 08-23-2016, 09:20 AM   #21
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Well I suppose to each his own on what constitutes acceptable visibility. I need all I can get, and not just forward of the helm.

I'd recommend getting swatches and seeing for oneself. The sun will hit from several different angles in the course of a cruise. Ours were on the windshield only as we had covered side decks and tinted windows.
Just to clerify, I'm not advocating running with them on your lower helm full time if you're going to be operating the boat from below.

But I've found, again depending on the weave, that the view out can be acceptable for operating the boat for at least a short time.

There is no way to tell what will be acceptable yo you till you have them on and can look out through them.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:18 AM   #22
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Wow! Thanks for all the replies. Great information. The pictures are really helpful as well as the suggestions.

Last night I think I convinced my wife to let me put the screen over the outside of the Windows. 🙂

The thing that did it for her was the ability to use YKK Snads for the ousted snap studs. She really didn't want me drilling holes in the gelcoat. The YKK Snad is simply a snap stud with 3M VHB adhesive on the back. It is strong enough to do the job if applied properly and can be removed if you change your mind down the road.
http://www.ykkfastening.com/products...hers/snad.html

Practical Sailor did a review on the 3M Dual Lock fasteners. They were quite positive on them. Again with the 3M adhesive you need to follow directions and let it cure, but then it really holds well.

So now the plan is to make and mount the screens on the outside and likely use the 25mm clear Snad studs. The suggestion to get a yard of each of the materials is a good one. That way I can show my wife on the boat.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:30 AM   #23
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Dave, I suggest you stay away from the clear Snad studs. I installed them in my boat, and after less than 12 months of use the Snad studs delaminated under UV exposure in the Chesapeake. They did not peel off where the 3M VHB tape sticks to the gelcoat, but the studs themselves delaminated into two pieces, i.e., the tape still stuck to the gelcoat, but the rest of the clear Snad separated from the tape. After that experience, I am thinking that the white Snads would be better because it is still somewhat inconspicuous, yet would block the UV. But I haven't tested my theory yet.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:04 AM   #24
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After that experience, I am thinking that the white Snads would be better because it is still somewhat inconspicuous, yet would block the UV. But I haven't tested my theory yet.
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I've never used the Snads but do know that even white zippers don't stand up to UV as well as black... Not the answer you wanted Dave but just my $0.02 FWIW

What are your outside window frames made of?
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:12 AM   #25
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Have you considered window tinting instead? 3M has a (pretty expensive) film that greatly reduces heat gain while having very little effect on visibility. I had the entire boat done, even the front windows. I was concerned about reduced vision at night but I cannot notice any loss of vision.


Only 3M authorized dealers have access to this product.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:21 AM   #26
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Dave, I suggest you stay away from the clear Snad studs. I installed them in my boat, and after less than 12 months of use the Snad studs delaminated under UV exposure in the Chesapeake. They did not peel off where the 3M VHB tape sticks to the gelcoat, but the studs themselves delaminated into two pieces, i.e., the tape still stuck to the gelcoat, but the rest of the clear Snad separated from the tape. After that experience, I am thinking that the white Snads would be better because it is still somewhat inconspicuous, yet would block the UV. But I haven't tested my theory yet.
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Good info, thanks. I am surprised. I know that Sailrite has been using them for a while.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:51 AM   #27
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Have you considered window tinting instead? 3M has a (pretty expensive) film that greatly reduces heat gain while having very little effect on visibility. I had the entire boat done, even the front windows. I was concerned about reduced vision at night but I cannot notice any loss of vision.


Only 3M authorized dealers have access to this product.
Yes, I have considered it and may do that as well at some point. Cost would be an issue of course. It would need to be professionally installed as it is not something that I would like to tackle given the shape and location of some of the windows.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:54 AM   #28
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:11 PM   #29
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We have mesh screens. Not sure the make or weave. They are mounted on the outside with twist snaps that are screwed into the PH roof augmented with 4200. They work well, but I take them completely off when travelling. Note that you want to ensure that you use the "twist" latches. From experience, I can tell you the "snaps" can release in a strong wind. We lost some coverings as a result.

But the big improvement we made this year are the zip-up screens on the Pilothouse doors. They keep the bugs outside and the cat inside on hot days and we use them while underway. It's a huge improvement.



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Old 08-23-2016, 12:12 PM   #30
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We have mesh screens. Not sure the make or weave. They are mounted on the outside with twist snaps that are screwed into the PH roof augmented with 4200. They work well, but I take them completely off when travelling. Note that you want to ensure that you use the "twist" latches. From experience, I can tell you the "snaps" can release in a strong wind. We lost some coverings as a result.

But the big improvement we made this year are the zip-up screens on the Pilothouse doors. They keep the bugs outside and the cat inside on hot days and we use them while underway. It's a huge improvement. We had a bunch of screens made up this year for various portlights and window coverings and the total,cost was just under $1 (boat dollar).

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Old 08-23-2016, 01:00 PM   #31
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I've never used the Snads but do know that even white zippers don't stand up to UV as well as black... Not the answer you wanted Dave but just my $0.02 FWIW

What are your outside window frames made of?
I figure if the Snads don't last more than a few seasons, then I can replace them easily. By that time my wife might let me put screws in the boat.

Aluminum frames.
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:08 PM   #32
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But the big improvement we made this year are the zip-up screens on the Pilothouse doors. They keep the bugs outside and the cat inside on hot days and we use them while underway. It's a huge improvement.
That is another project that I want to do as well. This summer we have been chased inside a few times by mosquitoes. Being able to keep the PH doors open but with some screens would keep the boat cooler.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:36 PM   #33
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I figure if the Snads don't last more than a few seasons, then I can replace them easily. By that time my wife might let me put screws in the boat.

Aluminum frames.
I understand completely...
The art of compromise...
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:38 PM   #34
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Dave, I suggest you stay away from the clear Snad studs.
Yeah...I've had poor results with those on my boat interior. Best to use the Domed one piece version. I don't believe the clear ones use 3M as they just seem to have some adhesive film on them (which failed in my case and were't very strong). The domed versions use 3M like the ones below.I recently put these on in a few spots but no long term testing yet:



Available here along with other snap supplies:
McMaster-Carr

On visibility the 70% is pretty good (the left side is looking through an additional metal screen):



and from outside showing the color matched snap heads available from Sailrite in numerous colors.

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Old 08-23-2016, 02:56 PM   #35
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Hmmm... if I've figured out uploading pictures, here are some views of visibility through our Textilene, daytime (rainy day out, during prep for Sandy) and night time.


Pretty sure it's 90%, but haven't looked for hard-copy invoicing to confirm.

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Old 08-23-2016, 03:14 PM   #36
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Yes, I have considered it and may do that as well at some point. Cost would be an issue of course. It would need to be professionally installed as it is not something that I would like to tackle given the shape and location of some of the windows.
If you have laminated glass you will not be able to tint. The reflection of the light/heat into the laminate layer will result in the glass cracking. A tinting company wouldn't touch my laminate glass.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:17 PM   #37
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If you have laminated glass you will not be able to tint. The reflection of the light/heat into the laminate layer will result in the glass cracking. A tinting company wouldn't touch my laminate glass.

Good info, thanks.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:56 PM   #38
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If you have laminated glass you will not be able to tint. The reflection of the light/heat into the laminate layer will result in the glass cracking. A tinting company wouldn't touch my laminate glass.
That is not necessarily true.

Laminated glass is tinted with film all the time. There is a risk of breakage based on several factors. But it is not a given that it will break. And some types of films are more likely to cause the glass to break than others.

But from what I've seen and been told in most cases tinting does not cause laminated glass to break.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:30 PM   #39
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That is not necessarily true.

Laminated glass is tinted with film all the time. There is a risk of breakage based on several factors. But it is not a given that it will break. And some types of films are more likely to cause the glass to break than others.

But from what I've seen and been told in most cases tinting does not cause laminated glass to break.
The laminate glass on our boat is tinted. The issue is caused when you place the reflective film on the inside of the glass and it reflects into the laminate. It gets very hot. The tint guys gave me samples and I ran an experiment. I don't remember the numbers but the glass got very hot.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:37 PM   #40
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