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Old 07-28-2016, 05:54 PM   #21
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The biggest, baddest anchor you can carry, chain to match and a proper snub line.
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:09 PM   #22
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After dragging in a tropical storm with three anchors out at Allans Pensacola Cay,I switched to tandem.

My tandem set up has been tested in two other tropical storms and works extremely well, easy to deploy an retrieve. Other than major storms ..... one bow anchor.

The only place I have used a Bahamian moor is in Beaufort NC where one is forced to because of the clutter of private moorings and that's what everybody else does. I have two badly mangled fingers caused by getting them caught while trying to unwind that twisted mess.
Man, I wouldn't want to ride out a Tropical Strom at Allen's....the holding there is really bad other than a few deep sand spots, and there is very little westerly protection. The dragging may have been a result of where you were anchored rather than your set up.

In 10 years of cruising the Bahamas I've only drug twice after I got the anchor (I thought) well set. Both times were at Allen's Pensacola.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:48 PM   #23
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Are you folks intending to do more anchoring out soon?

-Chris
No. We mainly anchor during the day for brief periods to enjoy ourselves. Last time was just to enjoy a nice lunch on board in a beautiful area.

And we have no plans to anchor differently than we have which is Delfin's biggest, baddest anchor you can carry, chain to match and a proper snub line. And a windlass capable of handling it.

Was just a subject we wanted to hear other's comments on. We did when younger anchor on the lake occasionally (never overnight) and having a bow and stern anchor was popular there on smaller boats. On a large boat, the biggest issue I see preventing bow and stern, even if you wanted it, is just being able to handle it. We're sure not intending to do it by hand and we don't have an anchor windless on the stern.

We anchor overnight primarily in areas we have no other reasonable choice. I would guess we've anchored overnight perhaps 10 times in the past 3 1/2 years. We do a lot of day anchoring in the Bahamas, just choosing an island area to enjoy and anchoring.
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Old 07-29-2016, 05:59 AM   #24
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Just anchor up in Baltimore Inner Harbor for the July 4th fireworks and you will see every "style" imaginable!
Classics such as the "teabag dunk" , "downwind drop" and the "anchor put" are pure entertainment.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:27 AM   #25
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The biggest, baddest anchor you can carry, chain to match and a proper snub line.


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Haven't tried two anchors from the bow yet. Have used a stern anchor a number of times to limit swing. Normally I'll be anchoring off of a channel with little current and want to keep the stern out of the channel. Usually drop it (small Fortress with 3/8" line) first and then go drop the bow anchor. Try to use 10:1 or more scope on the stern anchor since it's so small. Usually pull the bow anchor first and then just drift over the stern to pull it. It's amazing how much holding power you get with 10:1 on a very small anchor.

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Old 07-29-2016, 10:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
After dragging in a tropical storm with three anchors out at Allans Pensacola Cay,I switched to tandem.

My tandem set up has been tested in two other tropical storms and works extremely well, easy to deploy an retrieve. Other than major storms ..... one bow anchor.

The only place I have used a Bahamian moor is in Beaufort NC where one is forced to because of the clutter of private moorings and that's what everybody else does. I have two badly mangled fingers caused by getting them caught while trying to unwind that twisted mess.
Poker,
Looks to me like your "tandem" anchor settup is using the secondary anchor as a monster Kellet. That should go a long way to solve the scope and catenary shortcommings. How does the secondary anchor stay on, with or by the line/chain? Seems to me it would pull the line/chain over the primary rode and head for the bottom .... doing little good. With enough working around and time you'd end up w two rodes both originating very near the bow.

But perhaps the secondary anchor is attached .. not just looped over the primary rode?
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:50 AM   #27
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Delfin wrote;
The biggest, baddest anchor you can carry, chain to match and a proper snub line.

OMG I got nonea doze ... I'm gonna die .......
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:59 AM   #28
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Man, I wouldn't want to ride out a Tropical Strom at Allen's....the holding there is really bad other than a few deep sand spots, and there is very little westerly protection. The dragging may have been a result of where you were anchored rather than your set up.

In 10 years of cruising the Bahamas I've only drug twice after I got the anchor (I thought) well set. Both times were at Allen's Pensacola.
Forecast wind direction and speed was completely wrong, I was trapped.
12hrs at the wheel with the throttle on.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:02 AM   #29
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Poker,
Looks to me like your "tandem" anchor settup is using the secondary anchor as a monster Kellet. That should go a long way to solve the scope and catenary shortcommings. How does the secondary anchor stay on, with or by the line/chain? Seems to me it would pull the line/chain over the primary rode and head for the bottom .... doing little good. With enough working around and time you'd end up w two rodes both originating very near the bow.

But perhaps the secondary anchor is attached .. not just looped over the primary rode?
the second anchor has a giant (3/4" thick, stainless steel) carabiner that simply clips over the primary rode and slides freely. This was actually on my previous boat but I am now searching for another huge carabiner to do the same setup on Dirt Free
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:06 AM   #30
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With all these anchoring techniques, it seems we are trying to juggle 3 fundamental variables:

1) Swing space

2) Boat's attitude to the seas and weather

3) Ease of deployment and retrieval

A single anchor consumes the most swing space, but naturally aligns with the seas and weather, and is the easiest to deploy and retrieve. So unless you are space-limited, this is the best choice, and unsurprisingly the most popular.

Bahamian mooring provides tight control on swing space, yet still allows the boat to self-align to the seas and weather. But this comes with significantly more complicated deployment and retrieval, and more complicated rigging to ensure the lines don't hang up on the more aft parts of the boat.

The various forms of bow and stern anchoring (med moored, bow and stern anchors, stern tied to a shore line, etc.) tightly control swing space, but provide no self-alignment of the boat to seas and weather. Whatever attitude the boat takes when anchored is what you get regardless of what the seas and weather do. And they too are significantly more complicated to deploy and retrieve than a single anchor.

So it seems to all come down to whether or not you need to control your swing space, and what you are willing and able to do to accomplish that.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:10 AM   #31
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When the wind picks up and the boat starts aggressively hunting there is yet another option for anchor deployment. I drop my second anchor (previously a Bruce) out with a very short scope, perhaps 2 to 1. The purpose is to create drag or resistance to swinging. You are not trying to get the anchor to set, but only to develop sufficient drag. I have found that it generally reduces the swing arc by more than half and the rate of swing and the snap as the boat reaches its maximum fetch are then not a concern. It sometimes takes a bit of trial and error to get the best scope on the second anchor. I am sure that after a full night of swinging and hunting a small curved trench has been dug in front of the bow. I have only done this in areas of mud and sand, but it should work on other bottoms also. This works best when the wind is quite gusty and from variable directions. If the wind is consistent perhaps a "Y" deployment would be better. Anyway, this is something just to add to one's bag of anchoring techniques.

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Old 07-29-2016, 11:19 AM   #32
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So you're saying that if one uses bow and stern in an area of 10' tidal changes, they would need to allow much greater slack? If they allowed enough for the boat to rise and lower the 10', then wouldn't seem to be an issue. Much like tying a boat at a fixed dock or in a fixed slip.

On a single anchor, the issue with such a tidal change would simply be the amount of rode and having enough at low tide so that at high tide you'd still have adequate. Plus I guess in reverse when having enough at high tide, not then swinging into something at low tide.

On the east coast, much of Georgia has 8' tidal changes and it catches South Florida boaters by surprise. In South Florida we're just dealing with rising tides, projected based on recent history to rise another 2' by 2060.
Well, I will be 110 then, but will be prepared for it. LOL Being a South Florida boater, and not used to large tidal swings it is good information to have about the 8' tides in Ga, it would have caught me by surprise. I did not know that and we are planning trips up that way when we retire. Thanks
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:44 AM   #33
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When the wind picks up and the boat starts aggressively hunting there is yet another option for anchor deployment. I drop my second anchor (previously a Bruce) out with a very short scope, perhaps 2 to 1. The purpose is to create drag or resistance to swinging. You are not trying to get the anchor to set, but only to develop sufficient drag. I have found that it generally reduces the swing arc by more than half and the rate of swing and the snap as the boat reaches its maximum fetch are then not a concern. It sometimes takes a bit of trial and error to get the best scope on the second anchor. I am sure that after a full night of swinging and hunting a small curved trench has been dug in front of the bow. I have only done this in areas of mud and sand, but it should work on other bottoms also. This works best when the wind is quite gusty and from variable directions. If the wind is consistent perhaps a "Y" deployment would be better. Anyway, this is something just to add to one's bag of anchoring techniques.

Paul
Sounds like that "hammer lock" thing described in the Anchoring 201 ref in the other current thread...

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Old 07-29-2016, 12:49 PM   #34
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Chris,

Yes, that's it with a name.

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Old 07-29-2016, 05:39 PM   #35
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Actually there is a variation to the fore and aft anchor set up (not Bahamian), and that is what we called a "kedge" anchor. Contrary to what someone posted here, wind and seas do not always line up. The Pacific coats has a few examples of this, where the inherent swell is not affected by the wind at the time. This can make for a very rolly and uncomfortable night. I recall a member here experiencing this in Santa Cruz. So, a kedge is deployed ( a motorized dinghy being ideal) off a stern quarter that pulls the butt of the boat so the bow points into the swell. A little pitching motion being far preferable to exaggerated rolling.

We've used all the methods at one time or another for various reasons, sometimes just for practice and sport. With one well set anchor off the bow being the method 99% of the time.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:24 PM   #36
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For me, it's a single bow anchor all the time.

In the past, I've tried using an additional stern anchor to realign the boat when the swell is on the beam, but I find that it is usually a PITA. I have better results by using a bridle on my bow anchor chain to keep the boat pointing into the swell.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:50 PM   #37
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The major downside to stern anchoring in my experience is where that anchor needs to be placed for what you want it to do and will it hold and can it be retrieved.

Once in Tangier Island. The wind and tide combo brought me unconfortably close to a shallows and crab structure. So I rowed out a stern anchor. IT WAS A REALLY undersized bruce, but held the boat in a good position overnight.

In the morning when time to leave, I dang near couldn't get that anchor up with the dingy and it was in too shallow water at low tide to retrieve from the big boa I did finally work it loose.

The forces pulling on that stern anchor can be substantially more than one rigged to the bow. So pulling it intentionally or dragging it could be an issue that is hard to estimate due to a newer set of variable for you.

The only time I used a stern anchor was when I anchored in the wrong spot and the wind switched and started pushing me into the shallows like your experience.

I had a cheap Danforth knockoff I bought at Wal Mart so I threw it out thinking I would not care if I couldn't retrieve it. The next morning that anchor was hopelessly dug in and the wind was so high I couldn't retrieve it, so I left it (and the rode as well). I was single handing at the time so that made it harder.

So obviously I don't know how to use a stern anchor very well. 😳
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:35 PM   #38
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The only time I used a stern anchor was when I anchored in the wrong spot and the wind switched and started pushing me into the shallows like your experience.

I had a cheap Danforth knockoff I bought at Wal Mart so I threw it out thinking I would not care if I couldn't retrieve it. The next morning that anchor was hopelessly dug in and the wind was so high I couldn't retrieve it, so I left it (and the rode as well). I was single handing at the time so that made it harder.

So obviously I don't know how to use a stern anchor very well. 😳
Not sure if it is as much not knowing as the cost of stern anchoring or weighing the altenative.

Had it been a $600 anchor, you might have tried harder....but because it was a throwaway to a point, only the cost of stern anchoring.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:57 PM   #39
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Dude you bought a boat anchor at WALMART???

I never go into Wall Mart so being surprised is not surprising.

Do they have Deltas? I need a15 to 22lb Delta for an experiment. I assume everything at Wall Mart is dirt cheap.
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:00 AM   #40
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Dude you bought a boat anchor at WALMART???

I never go into Wall Mart so being surprised is not surprising.

Do they have Deltas? I need a15 to 22lb Delta for an experiment. I assume everything at Wall Mart is dirt cheap.

All I saw were Danforth look-a-likes at the WM in Florida. They were cheap!

Wait, they have this. I bet you don't have this anchor!! 😂

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