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Old 10-15-2009, 11:57 AM   #21
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

I have in front of me a very large $$ order for agitators in a pressure vessel. I note that the seals are silicon carbide/antimony as well as* PD pumps for the seal water package. For decades this type of system, has been used in industry. PYI is just a simple offshoot. But like anything mechanical, good maintenance is required.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:03 PM   #22
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Here is the stuffing box picture....look familiar to anybody?.......any comments?
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:16 AM   #23
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

That's a pretty conventional unit. I've seen these on a number of boats. The other style has two large nuts that completely surround the forward end of the packing gland. One nut is the adjustment for tightening or loosening the pressure on the packing material--- flax in the case of our boat--- and the other one is a jam or locking nut to keep the adjustment nut from working loose. I thought you said there was a water feed to the stuffing box but I don't see one in your photo.
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:00 AM   #24
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Quote:
Marin wrote:

*I thought you said there was a water feed to the stuffing box but I don't see one in your photo.
It looks like threre is a grease zerk about 11 o'clock.

Maybe*the water feed is further aft, behind the*forward end of the stern tube.*
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:39 PM   #25
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Stuffing box question/can of worms

The plug in the photo on the near side looks like the square-headed drain plugs that are on all our seacocks. On the seacocks they are to facilitate draining the water out of the valve in preparation for a winter layup. You can also use your finger to force grease into the valve bodies through the plug mounting holes.

There appears to be a shiny "thing" on the far side of the stuffing box that could be the top of a very clean zerk fitting.* I assume that's what you're talking about.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 17th of October 2009 02:43:41 PM
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:39 PM   #26
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Stuffing box question/can of worms

[img]download.spark?ID=591061&aBID=115492[/img]

That looks like a zerk to me. The bright spot just above the zerk looks like a meniscus*of the bilge water between the hose and the housing made shiny*by the flash.

Or, if that zerk really is a square ended plug (which it does more and more) that might be where the cooling water was supposed to be injected when that unit was used i other applications. It appears to be located where a "lantern ring" might be found in a traditional stuffing box.*

-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 17th of October 2009 05:30:25 PM
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:44 PM   #27
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

The picture shows the main reason for not having a conventional stuffing box as they leak and water/rust/corrosion in the bilge.* Where as a drippless, the bilge is completely dry.* I took one look at the Eagle bilge with the water when we bought her and said that simply has to go.* That is one of the first things I look at when checking the engine room on our boat or any boat.* Is the bilge dry?

I noticed the newer SS collar has 4 set screws were as the oler one we have has only one, so the collar slipping on the shaft has been taken care of, but I would still run a bead of calking in case the O rings leak.***
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:47 AM   #28
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

"The picture shows the main reason for not having a conventional stuffing box as they leak and water/rust/corrosion in the bilge. "



This is mostly correct UNTIL the more modern Gore and other materials were marketed.

Now your 1905 antique stuffing box can be packed with modern material that runs with a dry bilge , even underway , lower shaft temperature than even tefflon, and far less chance of a scored shaft from flaking being captured by the antique packing.

"Where as a drippless, the bilge is completely dry."

However the danger of a failed rubber part or other mechanical mishap may allow MORE WATER to enter the boat than most Pairs of bilge pumps can handle.

As a firm believer in KISS , the thought that my boat might be on the bottom is worth the extra cost of a less than disasteriouus failure mode.

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Old 10-18-2009, 07:00 AM   #29
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Quote:
FF wrote:
This is mostly correct UNTIL the more modern Gore and other materials were marketed.

Now your 1905 antique stuffing box can be packed with modern material that runs with a dry bilge , even underway , lower shaft temperature than even tefflon, and far less chance of a scored shaft from flaking being captured by the antique packing.
FWIW, I used the Gore packing material this season, and it certainly seems to work as advertised and as FF describes.* Once I got everything adjusted correctly I had no drips and, according to the IR gun, the shaft and packing gland never goes above 105 degrees. Which is probably little above ambient temp in the engine room on the Chesapeake in the summer when the air temps are in the 90s and the water temps in the mid/upper 70s.



*
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:22 PM   #30
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

I'm always curious when I read posts from people who say their packing glands never get above 105 or whatever degrees, or that they are hot but not real hot. This is obviously a normal situation for their boat. Our boat has conventional packing glands with flax packing. Once they are properly adjusted--- a very slow drip when running, maybe one every three or four minutes--- and no drips at all when stationary, they run dead cold to the touch. I haven't measured the temperature so I can't give a degree number, but by feel they are as cold as the seacocks feeding the engines. The single-engine GB we chartered before buying our own boat was the same way. So why the apparent large differences in the running temperatures of packing glands of the same basic type?
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:59 PM   #31
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Mine are the same as in the photo, except I have two nuts on each of the tightening bolts. I also have a water feed.
Capt23: athe 1/4 in af remaining tightening room that you have indicates that your stuffing material, whatever it is,m is compressed almost as much as possible. You can back off the nuts, work the fitting back and add another ring of material. If you are going to pick out what is there first, you can put three rings of new material in before tightening. Then tighten it up and work your way to a drier bilge.

As for the catastrophic failures, a boat that I know experienced a near sinking early this past summer, after hitting something. The way it was explained to me : on impact, the prop and shaft and engine pulled back on the flex in the engine mounts. This pulled the shaft through the stainless ring, which remained slightly up the shaft when everything else returned to its normal position. Now there is a gap of 1/4 to 1/2 in where ther should have been a seal, and consequently a gusher bigger than total pump capacity.
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:02 PM   #32
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Capt23: the 1/4 in of remaining tightening room that you have indicates that your stuffing material, whatever it is, is compressed almost as much as possible.

what I meant to say
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Old 10-19-2009, 11:31 AM   #33
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

There is no dripping when the engine is off and my bilge pumps cycles very little, in fact I was just on it for a few days and I didn't hear it come on at all. I did notice that where the anchor rode comes out of the boat, water leaks into the bilge there. As far as the stuffing box, do you remove the 2 bolts and pull that piece back and then the stuffing goes in the piece that is away from the motor? It seems to run pretty dry so do I need to mess with it or not?

Also how dry should my bilge be? No water at all.....or some water.....I have a shop vac and was going to jump in and suck out that nastiness.


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Old 10-19-2009, 12:25 PM   #34
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Also how dry should my bilge be?

Basically dry when not moving , but flax stuffing MUST be warer cooled , so there will be driups.

We take a different approach and have the bilge pump set higher than dry bilge.

This is because with a dry stack and keel cooling we were reluctant to install a second hyd keel cooler for the steering and windlass.

So the hoses to the bow windlass simply hang in some bilge water , all the cooling that is required for such a simple system.


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Old 10-19-2009, 01:43 PM   #35
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Stuffing box question/can of worms

Quote:
Marin wrote:
So why the apparent large differences in the running temperatures of packing glands of the same basic type?
*

Ummm, dunno.* Some possibilities - clamped down a bit too tight or loose, slightly misaligned shaft, inaccurate calibration of the IR gun (I'm not sticking my fingers into that area while moving!), different transference of heat from the tranny to the shaft, ambient water temps, shaft RPM, ambient engine room temp, different materials, differences in the water intake capacity at the cutlass bearing, differences in prop shaft to prop shaft tube* clearance ....... sheesh, the list is nearly endless!

But now that I think about it ... if water doesn't drip out of the packing gland, is the same water sitting in the tube at all times?* Doesn't it eventually heat up?* Is the water in the prop shaft tube moving in both directions (in and out)?

Hmmm.* Like I said ... dunno.* But it seems to work just fine!

*

*

*


-- Edited by BaltimoreLurker on Monday 19th of October 2009 01:46:31 PM

-- Edited by BaltimoreLurker on Monday 19th of October 2009 01:58:18 PM
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:33 PM   #36
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Capt: As far as the stuffing box, do you remove the 2 bolts and pull that piece back and then the stuffing goes in the piece that is away from the motor? It seems to run pretty dry so do I need to mess with it or not?

Thats the general idea. when you pull that piece towards the engine, you can pick out the existing stuffing if you have a strong pick and lots of patience. Or you can just layer in another round and tighten it up again. If you get a drip every 10 to 30 seconds at rest you should be ok for lube, as you will get more than that when it is turning. If that is its present rate, don't mess with it. "If it aint broke,..."
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:05 AM   #37
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

There is nothing dripping at rest. I think the little water that is in my bilge is water that comes in to the boat via the windlass hole (where the rode feeds out) and possibly the little that may come in at the back deck where my quadrant access door is, other than that this boat seems very dry. Like I said when I am aboard the bilge pump may come on once maaaaaaybe twice in a 24 hour period if it is raining heavily...and that may be exaggerating.

I may put another layer in just for good measure.....but my instincts tell me to not mess with it 'til there is an issue. My plans are to pull this boat out of the water in the spring, so I am doing what I can now while it is in the water, and am making a to-do list for when I get it on the hard.

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Old 10-23-2009, 08:57 PM   #38
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

I'm kinda thinking.....

Carbon fiber=organic

Ceramic=inorganice

Makes them very dissimilar!
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:15 PM   #39
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Stuffing box question/can of worms

Quote:
Baker wrote:

I'm kinda thinking.....

Carbon fiber=organic

Ceramic=inorganice

Makes them very dissimilar!

*
Periodic table: C = carbon* Carbon is element. Carbon is inorganic.

Organic compounds include carbon but that doesn't make carbon organic. There are many inorganic carbon compounds; carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, cyanides, carbide ... the list goes on.* Diamonds are not organic and they are pure carbon.

"Makes them very dissimilar!"* =*Not
*


-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 24th of October 2009 08:16:45 PM
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:41 AM   #40
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RE: Stuffing box question/can of worms

Guess I forgot the hydrogen part of that equation.....
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