Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-11-2016, 08:18 PM   #81
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
The mechanic said that whoever did them didn't know what they were doing. They had the main Flo Scan filter/sensor FEEDING the Racors. I would think the Racors would feed the main Flo Scan filter/sensor & then feed the engine. Plus, they used up feet of hose like it was free. They added over 20 feet to the fuel system because they wanted an easy place to mount them. Not good.
__________________
Advertisement

RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 10:33 PM   #82
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,928
Ok...so it was a lousy install...but if your mech didn't think he could make a well known and reliable system work...then what kind of mech is he?

Not saying all flo scans work great...but the engines still run normally even if the flo scans dont....
__________________

psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 07:25 AM   #83
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
This is my retirement boat but it just might do me in with stress before I retire at end of 2016.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
Since this started about 4 days ago I've been so nerved up & constant butterflies in my stomach that it's difficult to focus.

Take a deep breath... you're just having to learn things faster than usual, but this too shall pass.



I didn't see it mentioned above... but do you have cross-over valves on your fuel tanks? Is it possible to draw fuel only from the tank that currently services the engine that works?

If there's a blockage in one tank, maybe something eventually clogging the mouth of the pick-up tube for a while, maybe a temp solution could be running both engines off the other tank?

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 07:29 AM   #84
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
I did change the Secondary on engine because there was new on on board. I went on internet yesterday & bought 6 secondaries & 8 oil filters because each engine uses 2 oil filters. I hate that the oil filters mount upside down cause I always pre-fill with new oil when installing. I will keep everyone posted what happens when mobile fuel polishing guy gets here Monday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Change the secondary yet? Not clear if so. I gave part numbers for NAPA version, should be find-able if there is a good autoparts store.

OK, so you changed the secondary once. Now that the engine has gone down again, what happens when you change the secondary again? Was the replacement secondary blocked? That could confirm bad fuel...

But if the new secondary isn't blocked, that could instead suggest there's something floating around in that one tank, and whatever that something is eventually finds it's way to the mouth of the pick-up tube.

IOW, I suspect it could be one of two conditions, maybe or maybe not both...

I think.

??

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 07:35 AM   #85
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
The old mechanic that came out said the first thing to do is take them out of the system, both supply & return. He said he has more problems with boats that have them. "Just take them out & LEAVE them out. Thats my intent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
That's just ridiculous!

Flo Scans are great devices and I've never seen them cause an issue when properly installed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
The mechanic said that whoever did them didn't know what they were doing. They had the main Flo Scan filter/sensor FEEDING the Racors. I would think the Racors would feed the main Flo Scan filter/sensor & then feed the engine. Plus, they used up feet of hose like it was free. They added over 20 feet to the fuel system because they wanted an easy place to mount them. Not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Ok...so it was a lousy install...but if your mech didn't think he could make a well known and reliable system work...then what kind of mech is he?

Not saying all flo scans work great...but the engines still run normally even if the flo scans dont....

Yep, agree, horse-hockey. Bad install maybe; fair enough, fix that when you get around to it.

Maybe your guy hasn't actually seen all that many FloScan installs, and maybe the ones he has seen were done by idiots (unqualified non-diesel-mechanics)... and if so, that could have influenced his thinking.

Not to worry, this too shall pass.

And then you can get the FloScans installed properly sometime in there, too.



-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 08:59 AM   #86
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
The mechanic said that whoever did them didn't know what they were doing. They had the main Flo Scan filter/sensor FEEDING the Racors. I would think the Racors would feed the main Flo Scan filter/sensor & then feed the engine. Plus, they used up feet of hose like it was free. They added over 20 feet to the fuel system because they wanted an easy place to mount them. Not good.
So it had zero to do with the Flo Scan itself. The install was bad. But he recommends you remove the Flo Scan for good?

I can see removing it until you get your problem solved. But I'd recommend reinstalling it properly after that.

Or give it to me if you really don't want it.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 11:43 AM   #87
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,890
There is a series of steps to take when you have a fuel starve issue. Exactly what steps depends on the boat and engine, but way down on the list is doing a tank cleaning and removing flowscans!! Last I heard the racor element still looked mostly clean and engine still starved, that's not a dirty tank scenario, unless there is mobile debris in the tank randomly clogging the pickup.

Based on what I know, here's the steps I'd recommend:

1. Replace secondary filter. If one not available locally, pump fuel through it with a squeeze bulb and see that it flows freely.

2. Put a suction gauge on Racor tee handle. Monitor for vacuum, this will tell you if tank pickup is obstructed.

3. check discharge pressure and flow from engine fuel lift pump. These can and do fail, often erratically.

4. Put a temporary clear hose on the suction of the lift pump. This will reveal if you have a sneaky air leak into fuel system between engine and tank.

5. Get an outboard squeeze bulb and put it on fuel line going to lift pump. Pump squeeze bulb into a jug and make sure it flows freely. This will determine if there is something sneaky like a delam hose in the run from the tank.

You need a jug of fuel, squeeze bulb hose, Racor gauge, tools and random fittings. And a secondary, but if you can flow test it, not really necessary.

Ask around on the dock, there may be someone there willing to loan you a Racor gauge.

If lift pump is suspect, a 40buck electric 5psi pump from Autozone can get you going.

Reading this thread makes my head hurt. Got a simple fuel starve issue and without the basic troubleshooting being done, the mechs up there have talked you into removing flowscans and doing a tank polish. NUTS!! That is expensive, not necessary and probably will NOT solve the problem.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 11:57 AM   #88
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Reading this thread makes my head hurt. Got a simple fuel starve issue and without the basic troubleshooting being done, the mechs up there have talked you into removing flowscans and doing a tank polish. NUTS!! That is expensive, not necessary and probably will NOT solve the problem.
You gotta realize it is in the middle of boondocks up here in Manistee.

If the fuel polishing doesn't work, he might want to see if he can run the boat up to Charlevoix. Bergmann Marine has ABYC techs and should be able to troubleshoot the issue a little better than what he has gotten so far.
Donsan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 12:04 PM   #89
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Stuck at Dock-fuel filter problem?

Thank you Ski. I just copied and saved that post for future reference. It is the most straightforward concise troubleshooting I've read anywhere on the subject of fuel starve.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 03:54 PM   #90
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Ok...so it was a lousy install...but if your mech didn't think he could make a well known and reliable system work...then what kind of mech is he?

Not saying all flo scans work great...but the engines still run normally even if the flo scans dont....
He was not there to reinstall & reroute the Flo Scan hoses. He was there to try to get me going. I can mess with Flo Scans at a later date. As far as a mechanic he was Cat's field tech for 30 years & has told me of numerous problems of air in engines. As for me, I have no knowledge of Flo Scans whatsoever. Take care.
RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 04:23 PM   #91
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
You gotta realize it is in the middle of boondocks up here in Manistee.

If the fuel polishing doesn't work, he might want to see if he can run the boat up to Charlevoix. Bergmann Marine has ABYC techs and should be able to troubleshoot the issue a little better than what he has gotten so far.
First the Flo Scans were taken out of system because of much extra 3/8" hose routing. That hose was removed to shorten the length from tank to Racor. The way the Flo Scans were installed ALL the fuel that fed the Racor went through the Flo Scan spin-on looking filter. That seems like a good enough reason to take the tank hose that went to F.S. & shorten to the Racor. Thats why I asked him to do that.
RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 04:27 PM   #92
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,376
RB

The PS engines I have used and seen of similar HP have two engine mounted secondary filters. Does yours?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 06:12 PM   #93
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
These Perkins Sabre M300TI have one secondary & 2 oil filters. I don't like that my 2008's have the two oil filters mounted upside down.
Had both fuel tanks cleaned & polished & what an intelligent move that was. Black specks & flakes in both & water in the stbd. Now my young captain friend had to leave because of all the delays & I'm in Manistee alone. Still checking what to do.
RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 06:30 PM   #94
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,093
Sounds like the polishing was a good move Ricky. Stock up on primary and secondary filters and hit the water. Take a jug of clean diesel to make any filter changes quicker just in case.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 07:33 PM   #95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 204
Just read this string. Are you at Seng's marina in Manistee, or the municipal? I'm currently up the shore line at Frankfort with our boat and car. I'd be happy to drive down if you need a hand or any tools. And if you'd like an extra hand on the boat for a test leg on the way north, I'd be happy to ride with you up to Frankfort or as far as Leland. Also have a friend over at the Seng's marina on a 47 Bayliner who's probably sitting on his butt looking for something to do. I'm not specifically familiar with the Perkins, but do generally know my way around engines, boats...and this boating area. Fair amount of time single handing our 44 on Lake Michigan.
go-planing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 10:54 AM   #96
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
I'm at Muni. My wife is on way up from Detroit to get. Me. I am planning on coming back up in week or so with a filters that I ordered a few days ago. Also a manager at a boat club by me knows of a couple of people that can come back up with me & bring it home then. If I can figure out how to pm you I'll include my phone #. Thanks.
RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 11:02 AM   #97
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
Yes it was. I have 2 gas jugs that are,1 gal each. Fuel polisher guy said I would probably need one more filter change out. I have secondarys being shipped to my house & Racor too.
RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 11:04 AM   #98
Veteran Member
 
City: Grosse Ile
Country: U.S.A.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 83
I can't figure out how to pm you my phone #.
RickyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 11:05 AM   #99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 204
I sent you a PM with my number about an hour ago. If you click on "private messages" on the upper right corner of the log-in page it will take you to the right place.
go-planing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 11:08 AM   #100
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,890
When you come up next week, bring an electric 5psi fuel pump, some wires with alligator clips, a squeeze bulb, extra hose, fittings, clamps. That way if it is your lift pump, you can rig the elec pump as an in line booster.

Also those filter cans on the flowscans are pulsation dampers, not filters. Looks like filters but there is no element inside.
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012