Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-01-2018, 09:32 PM   #1
Guru
 
South of Heaven's Avatar
 
City: Sharon, Ma
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Lane
Vessel Model: 2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 919
Still having troubles getting into my slip

Guys, this is my first full season at my marina and I love it! Last year after I bought the boat I came here in late August so I didn't get that much docking experience.

I'm still having a hard time on some days backing into my slip. Not fun! I drew a kindergarten level representation of my dock and slip.

My slip is represented as number 23. I'm at the last slip on starboard side when coming down my row. Each berth has 2 boats. My slip is a port side tie in and I dock stern in.

So obviously this depends on wind direction (there are almost no currents to contend with). Some of my usual problems are as follows:

Scenario #1. I'll line up too close to slip 22 and then when I make my swing it's too late. Then my bow is being pushed closer to slip 10 and I need it to be directly in front of slip 11.

Scenario #2. To avoid what happens sometimes in scenario #1 I'll be closer to the middle part of the fairway and then when I make the swing I'm really close to slip 11 which is fine but then I overcompensate and my stern is lining up with slip 24.

Scenario #3. I drive in, get in perfectly and don't even bat an eye! This scenario happens fairly often but I wanna increase my numbers!

Some more info. I have a single inboard with a left handed prop. I have a bow thruster also. I have never hit another boat and don't want to start now!

What would you guys do and don't do (by using the slip numbers as points of reference)? Another thing. Are there situations that require more than idle speed? Sometimes I feel like I need more throttle to give a quick burst in a certain direction but usually I don't do it and then lose valuable seconds and miss a chance to correct. Uggh!


Click image for larger version

Name:	20180601_222842.jpg
Views:	400
Size:	65.5 KB
ID:	76935
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Jason

2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
South of Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 09:51 PM   #2
Guru
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by South of Heaven View Post

What would you guys do...

Practice and practice some more. Not much damage can be done at 1 mph.
__________________

seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:01 PM   #3
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,963
One thought on your use of power. I like going slow and normally find that simply going in and out of gear is adequate. However, at times you need to move the stern one way or the other. Full rudder and small shot of power in forward will move the stern sideways without changing speed very much.

Iím a little unsure as to how you are doing it. Are you driving down the fairway bow in and then making a swing to port to line up and then backing in? If so, your boat should be able to spin in place to port. You could go in slow, then helm hard to port and leave it there as go between forward and reverse. The left hand prop will turn your boat in place. Before you are completely lined up, start to back in. The stern will move to starboard as you back in so you would start to back up with the stern pointed at the finger between 22 and 23.

If you are trying to back down the fairway, it will be a harder turn to back into the slip as your boat will not really want to back to port.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:12 PM   #4
TF Site Team
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,248
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Frankly, unless your boat is longer than the finger, preventing you getting off from the swim-step unless stern in, I would question why you don't just motor slowly in bow first. Just swing the bow in from out as wide as you can, (without risking catching the dink, etc, on the boats on the other side of the fairway), so as to just miss the end of your finger, then using the prop-walk, which sounds like it would pull the stern towards the finger, plus a bit of port-directed thruster, gently dock.
You said left hand screw, presumably that's in forward gear, so right hand, pulling towards the dock in reverse. Add in some bow-thruster to keep the bow drifting away from the finger, just dock st'bd side to the dock, bow in. Usually much easier than reversing into a berth, especially if you have the bow thruster, and getting out is usually no big deal then either. Have a midships spring line you can grab and put over a midships cleat, and Bob's your uncle. Slow idle fr'd or rev. holds you against the dock while you leisurely complete the setting of other lines, impressing folk no end with your skill.

I dock this way - always have, and I have no thruster. Backing out is a breeze. Just slow astern, until nearly to other side, then forward gear, (in your case) rudder right hard over, and give it a decent blip on the throttle, kicking the stern to port - might need to inch back and repeat, helped by some port directed bow thruster, depending on wind strength and direction, and then straighten up and away you go...
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:17 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Coupeville Wa.
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Pelorus
Vessel Model: Californian 42 LRC
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 424
It's a little hard to describe but here goes.

Your rudder and prop can be thought of as a stern thruster. Let's say you've missed the line up for 23 and you're lined up on 24 trying to back in. Relative to your bow you're too far 'right'. You need to 'slide left'.

Stop your fore / aft motion. Hard right rudder and poke her ahead. Before you gain any appreciable headway your stern will swing 'left'. Now back easy and thrust the bow to the left. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Backing in easy is key. You won't get into much trouble and the bow thruster will still be effective.

As Seasalt says, practice. A lot. You'll learn your boat and it will become 2nd nature.

Try to use minimal throttle. Learn to let things happen instead of forcing them to happen. If observation says things are drifting the way you want, let it happen at it's own pace. Learn minimal use of the bow thruster.

Any cowboy can learn to come in hot and work the thruster till it trips out. The skilled boat handler does it gently with minimal effort.

And finally, when it starts to go wrong, don't fight it too hard. Leave and make another approach. The only damage will be to your ego.
Portage_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:45 PM   #6
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,012
First, it is about the prop walk. If you can make your prop walk your friend, you can then go anywhere you like.
Secondly, in reverse, your rudder will not affect the direction of travel until your speed increases so there is lots of water pushing against one side or the other. Especially true if your rudder is small.
So the technique involves going down the channel till you get close, turning the rudder hard to port, going into reverse, so the propwalk pulls the stern to stb and the prop pulls the stern back into the slip. If you are too far to stb, put the rudder over to Stb and leave it there. A burst of fwd will push the stern to port, then some slow reverse will pull you into your slip.
Practice
Practice
__________________
Keith
koliver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 05:54 AM   #7
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,402
The number one trick in driving a boat or aircraft is recocognizing when a correction is needed.

Inexperience doesnt allow for it and the longer one waits to make a correction, the more drastic (speed and/or angle) needs to be or aborting the attempt should hapoen at some point.

So yes using more throttle at times can be a good or even only solution when conditions dictate.

Almost every day I watch people docking and I cringe when a correction should be made and it isnt. The better captains recover, many dont and become a sideshow or a crash.

Its a combination of knowing how the boat handles and experience.

If it were my boat and slip, I would probably be pulling in instead of backing into the slip....especially with a left hand prop. With a thruster, I might back in, but then the thruster becomes more important than the natural tendencies of the boat. Another alternative might be a system of spring lines that I would have to pkay with to see what works with that boat the best.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 05:57 AM   #8
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by South of Heaven View Post
I have a single inboard with a left handed prop.

Do you mean your prop spins counter-clockwise in forward?

Does your prop walk your stern toward starboard or port, when in reverse?

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 07:46 AM   #9
Guru
 
South of Heaven's Avatar
 
City: Sharon, Ma
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Lane
Vessel Model: 2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Do you mean your prop spins counter-clockwise in forward?

Does your prop walk your stern toward starboard or port, when in reverse?

-Chris
Prop wash in reverse is to starboard.
__________________
Jason

2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
South of Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 08:08 AM   #10
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,214
Yea, a LH prop tends to kick the stern to stbd in reverse.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 08:22 AM   #11
Guru
 
Seevee's Avatar
 
City: st pete
Country: usa
Vessel Model: 400 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,094
All good advise.

I faced this same issue when new to my boat, and wanted to be able to back in or out of slips, tie on either side. I have a single, but both bow and stern thruster with remote.

The VERY BEST THING you can do is hire an EXPERIENCED captain and go practice with him (her... my first one was a lady). They will see the corrections that need to be made early and can guide you thru it.

After the lesson, practice more... and a month or so later, take a short refresher from them.

A few things....
Are you operating solo?
If you have a mate, practice with them... make it a team effort with known commands
and skills. Headsets work great.
If you don't, I could argue to have fenders on both sides of the boat.
Do you have a remote thruster? If so, have the mate run the boat and you operate the thruster and the lines. If not, see if you can get one... they're great.
Do you know fairly precisely how much walk both fore and aft you will have with a given amount of thrust. (I could argue 1 sec of thrust at a time).

And, yes, there's times when a burst of power, or more power over a longer period is necessary and makes things easier.... especially if a bit of wind comes up.

Another thing.... if this is your permanent slip and you're gonna be there awhile, consider a stern thruster. They are not as effective as the bow thruster, but absolutely great for nudging over a few inches to line up instead of a back and fill which can put you out of position. I know the die hard will say that's cheating, but for backing in, I LOVE my stern thruster and has saved my bacon a few times.

Now, because you've already done it perfect a few times, it's only a matter of recognizing how to maintain that perfect approach before things go bad.... again, that's what the instructor is for.
__________________
Seevee
Seevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:06 AM   #12
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,513
I am not Superman when it comes to docking my AT34.
I have seen some 80 and 100+ foot boats, take 2 or 3 times to back into their slip.
Three bits of advice;
1. Neutral is a gear, use it as necessary.
2. It is permitted to "lean" against a piling when docking.
3. Practice.

I do not know of one boat operator who is not "excited", to some degree, when docking or undocking the boat.

Remember not to 'catch' your fenders on 'things' when undocking. It will spin the boat, this I know.

Corrections will be gratefully appreciated.
__________________
I will update this as soon as I can think of something snappy.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:11 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
timb's Avatar
 
City: Oriental N.C.
Country: usa
Vessel Name: true heading
Vessel Model: marine trader 38 dc
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 361
I've been backing in too . and also have trouble in any wind .I should probably redo my lines for bow in . I don't have a thruster . the only thing I can offer as help is my old boat turns best if you get it move backwards at a fair rate and rudder hard and put power to it. It will usually turn what I want it to with out moving forward.
also for me still getting used to a single that dead end would worry me getting out with the bow in. mine bow blowing down wind is most of my problems. I guess a 10 boat unit thruster would help that .
timb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:20 AM   #14
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,402
Another beginner mistake is overreacting or applying the wrong correction.

Momentum csn be a valuable tool.

Some boats like mine (single, no thrusters, big rudder) ..... when backing and approaching a knot or two.....will start to answer helm almost as much as prop walk.

When trying to back the opposite of prop walk, taking it out of gear and waiting for the boat to answer the helm may be the better solution. But so often people suggest more power which can induce more prop walk, when momentum with just rudder can work great.

Because this can be very boat specific, several methods need to be explored, not just the advice of someone who may be great with their boat, but not experienced with many.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:22 AM   #15
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by timb View Post
I've been backing in too . I guess a 10 boat unit thruster would help that .
What is the length of your boat?

I had a very small bow thruster on my N46 and almost ended up on the rocks while undocking on a windy day. Luckily, some owners saw my predicament and came to my aid. I took it to a yard and they put in a 24vt 20hp bow thruster with duel props. They wired it so the truster had 24vt when using the bow thruster. Very impressive.
__________________
I will update this as soon as I can think of something snappy.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:30 AM   #16
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,079
What is after your dock - a sea wall or turning basin?
menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:37 AM   #17
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,214
The creek where I dock is too narrow for me to turn the boat around. So leaving I have to back out about 2-300yds. Single with a thruster, RH prop. Basically I steer with the thruster. Use a little fwd with rudder to get away from the bulkhead, then center the rudder and back out. Steer the bow with the thruster. Works like a champ.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 09:57 AM   #18
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
So leaving I have to back out about 2-300yds.
Back 200-300 yards straight without hitting anything or running aground? You be da man!!
__________________
I will update this as soon as I can think of something snappy.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 10:19 AM   #19
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,195
Ski is correct. My experience with a thruster is a 50' canal boat and it backed up very nicely with the bow thruster. Start your momentum backwards then ignore the rudder and steer with the thruster. No limit to the distance you can go. In a canal you have fixed limits and sometimes you have to back up a long way to find somewhere wide enough to turn around.

Remember, in a boat, the rudder ONLY steers the stern and the thruster ONLY steers the bow.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
What are we offended about today?
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 10:30 AM   #20
Guru
 
City: Galveston, Texas
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Model: 24" El Pescador
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 549
All good thoughts and techniques above.
Another technique to keep in tool bag might be to pre position a spring line at the outer most piling...grab it with a boat hook and back against it into the slip.


https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013...ring-lines.asp
__________________

__________________
Ken Diestler
Galveston, Tx
ktdtx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012