Stern anchor/shore Tie line

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The fly in the ointment with stern ties is you need to release them. If you have to paddle in to shore you are not on your boat (duh) and therefore not in control. Departing a shore tie in a wind or adverse current needs to be done from the boat, the line must be a floating line lest while maneuvering you get it stuck in your wheel. Also, I can't see how you could retrieve that strap, from the boat, and besides it would not float with those metal fittings.

If you use the method I proposed above it will not "saw" through the tree at all, the stern line will move through the loops.

Those flat straps that some are using for stern ties are cool for storage and strength but even twisting them will not stop the racket they make in a wind. They are in the same obnoxious anchorage group as jet skis......
 
Agree. I'm too cheap too. Old nylon rigging slings are free! May not be able to lift 20 tonnes anymore, but can easily hold my boat to a tree or rock.

I like Xsbanks idea too.
 
Xsbank said:
............ Also, I can't see how you could retrieve that strap, from the boat,......
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Easy Peezy... Use two 300' shore lines instead of one 600' line, then simply take an end of each of the two lines to shore and secure one end to a D ring and the end of the second line to the other D ring. Now when you release one of the two lines from your boat you pull everything back to the boat. Note: If you're worried about the strap and D rings sinking simply tie a small float to one, or both, of the D rings.
 
Northern Spy said:
Agree. I'm too cheap too. Old nylon rigging slings are free! May not be able to lift 20 tonnes anymore, but can easily hold my boat to a tree or rock.
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:thumb:and you are recycling.
The MacGyver link was facetiousness and as I was reading through this I wondered how many yellow straps and towels are left in the bush?

I still like the loop and lumpy knot idea. Like a simple line around an object, this also comes back to the boat without going ashore...the whole idea.
 
rochepoint said:
Have seen quite a few starting to carry "flat rope", a complete package is made by ULTRAline (or Quickline) Flat Rope & Reel.
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Good read so far and some things to think about. I have some 600' of old 1/2 anchor line I was just going to put a few floats on, then use a Lowes hose reel.

Funny story about the above flat line on a real nice SS reel. A friend of mine bought one at the boat show a few years ago and he was so proud of it. Showing everyone his new "expensive" accessory. We all know such a guy right?

He is somewhere in Desolation Sound and has his first opportunity to show off his "new accessary." Little breezy that day, so as he is running his new accessory to shore in the dinghy, his wife was in the wheel house using the transmissions to keep the boat straight. He's running to shore......then all of a sudden he starts heading back to the boat involuntarily!!! He is screaming bloody murder at her, she can't hear him. Seems the "new accessory" got caught in one of the props and was pulling him back to the boat. She finally sees the wake of the dinghy and puts the transmission in neutral. Seems the power of the boat prop was more powerful than the 25hp he had on the dink.....:eek:

Lucky for him there was a diver in the cove and he was able to cut the strap off the prop and shaft. He later asked me if I wanted the reel, slightly bent for free! Nope, I will have 600' of yellow poly!!:thumb:
 
Hawgwash said:
....as I was reading through this I wondered how many yellow straps and towels are left in the bush?
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In some discussion I read or heard many years ago about protecting tree bark from damage from a stern tie line the suggestion was made to have some rectangles of cotton toweling on board and put one between the line and the tree when setting up the stern tie. When the line is pulled free on departure the piece of fabric simply drops to the ground and is left there, either to rot away or be used by other people securing to the same tree.

We use a towel with a couple of short sections of twine tied through grommets we put in each end of the towel. When the stern line is put around the tree the towel is folded double and positioned between the line and the bark and the twine at each end of the towel is tied to the stern line. When we leave pulling the stern line in pulls the towel along with it. Simple and effective with no need to go back to shore to unfasten or retrieve anything.
 
Xsbank said:
If you use the method I proposed above it will not "saw" through the tree at all, the stern line will move through the loops.
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I said nothing about your setup sawing through a tree but, 2 twangy taught stern lines, fed through a secondary loop around a tree, especially a smooth skinned tree, like an Alder, could move around the tree the same as a single line. But no harm done either way and the line will probably sustain more damage over time than the tree
 
It’s nice to see an interest in making our presence as inconspicuous as possible and we should all do our part because caring about nature is long overdue.

But really, how many trees has anyone here seen killed by a stern line? Other than the ones pulled out by the roots.

Woodpeckers and bears take more hide off a tree with an afternoon snack than a summer of stern lines and the trees survive quite nicely.

How many decades old trees are there on our coast with cables, dogs, and even bullblocks embedded in them? The bark has healed the trees like the human skin does.

Whatever you think it takes to be gentle is fine with me and good for you all that you think about it.

Those towels left behind for the next guy, if not chosen wisely, could potentially cause more environmental harm than a line around the tree.

The disease, bacteria and pathogen laced dog scat left behind does more environmental damage than a line around a tree. Unless, when the dog is on vacation, it is into roots, bark, ants and huckleberries.

20 gen sets in a windless cove…semantics now and I do smile at how they have trained us to be so caring about the trees we see while raping the streams and fracking the aquifer, behind them.

So Al Gore-ish
 
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I think we should not leave a mark when we are using nature for our pleasure. Take your garbage and your stern ties and your towels and your beer cans and your crap home with you and dispose of it properly. Whether or not the tree can survive despite your best efforts is not the point.
 
Hawgwash said:
But really, how many trees has anyone here seen killed by a stern line? Other than the ones pulled out by the roots.
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Personally I believe the argument that something doesn't happen because we don't happen to see it is an unrealistic and outdated excuse for acting irresponsibly.

The business of tree damage due to stern tying is not something I dreamed up; I've seen it commented on in articles over the years by people in Washington and BC whose job it is to observe, study and evaluate all sorts of aspects along this coast, from the plight of the cormorants to the health of harbor porpoises to the state of the glaciers to the health trends exhibited by the trees.

Sure, stern tying is not a huge factor here. But big pictures are made up bazillions of little ones. A single dead or dying tree due to repeated abrasion of the bark by boaters is one less in the population. Take a blind eye or an "it doesn't matter" attitude toward that, and when does the "now it matters" attitude kick in? After twenty of them have died? A hundred? Ten thousand?

I'm not militant environmentalist but I have come to have an increasing contempt for people who take a blase attitude toward life on this planet we all live in. I suspect it's an attitude that comes with time and the increasing realization that the very short life in the overall scheme of things each of us has on this planet is truly special. So why deprive something else of its life when we don't have to?

I think Xsbank's closing sentence in his prior post is what's important here. Every little bit makes a difference.
 
Stern tie around trees is a National Parks no-no here. Not sure about large boulders, they could probably withstand a rope, query vice versa.
 
Marin said:
Personally I believe the argument that something doesn't happen because we don't happen to see it is an unrealistic and outdated excuse for acting irresponsibly.
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Exactly my point with the comment about run of river and fracking.
Sure, stern tying is not a huge factor here. But big pictures are made up bazillions of little ones. A single dead or dying tree due to repeated abrasion of the bark by boaters is one less in the population. Take a blind eye or an "it doesn't matter" attitude toward that, and when does the "now it matters" attitude kick in? After twenty of them have died? A hundred? Ten thousand?

I think Xsbank's closing sentence in his prior post is what's important here. Every little bit makes a difference.
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Absolutely, and how many towels with god knows what chemicals in them, does it take? Twenty, a hundred, ten thousand? Every little bit makes a difference.

My point, not that much apart from yours and Xsbaks's, being; think about everything we do when anchoring, stern tying or any other act when engaged with nature.

Those past practices, don't make for excuses, just evidence that trees are hardy and can endure much abuse. Stern tying with care is addressing one small element and yes, it's the compounding stuff we do and leave behind that is just as, maybe more, harmful.

My point, and again, it ties in with your bazillion little things adding up; we think about the tree but not the underbrush when stomping around in our "let's pretend to be a high rigger" boots.

Xsbank's remark is bang on.
 
Hawgwash said:
Those past practices, don't make for excuses, just evidence that trees are hardy and can endure much abuse.
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I think whether one believes that or not depends on who one gives credibility to. There are people to whom the evidence says otherwise.
 
In most anchorages in the Mediterranean where stern tie lines are the norm, using trees is strictly prohibited due to the damage it causes. They have seen the long term damage that occurs from boats over many years.


Most people wrap their lines around a suitable rock. A heavy short line is used for this to avoid abrasion damage on the main line.
 
AusCan said:
In most anchorages in the Mediterranean where stern tie lines are the norm, using trees is strictly prohibited due to the damage it causes. They have seen the long term damage that occurs from boats over many years.
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Much like using trees to rappel from at popular rock climbing sites...do it too many times and it cuts through the bark making a tree suspect as an anchor.

Where we live I haven't noticed any wear & tear on the back sides of the trees we've used so far.
 
For places where there are few useful trees and lots of rock, a very useful device is a piece of heavy chain, about 3' long. Weld a steel ball about the size of a tennis ball on one end. Put the ball into a rock crack and loop the stern tie line through the other end of the chain. The ball wedges into the crack very well and holds firmly and it's easy to pull out backwards when it's time to go. The rock releases it with no problem. You have to go and get it, however. We always took a hammer or something in case we needed to release it but so far no problems. Held two 55' boats rafted in Roscoe bay last summer.
 
I've got a boom chain that I've been meaning to use, but never had the right occasion. Interesting idea on welding a ball on.
 
I have been using the same buckets of half inch nylon 3 strand (spare anchor line) for over 20 yrs. I have never tried Marin's towel trick, as I haven't had any abrasion show up on those lines, from trees. Nor have I seen the bark being cut by my puny lines. Once the end at the boat is released, however, when pulling the line back to the boat, the line/tree interface could get warm, as the line sometimes drags though the boulders on the beach, barnacles, or whatever, and gets hard to pull. Marin's towel would be back aboard and not useful to protect his rope when this typically happens.

To Hawg's point, I have seen lots of evidence of logger's cable sawing through bark, some so deep it gets left behind, but even there, the trees survive, patch up the damage and live on. Not so much for rope damage to trees, with the notable exception of a few obviously too small, too weak, trees, pulled out by boaters tying to the wrong one. But that is a different issue altogether.
 
koliver said:
I have been using the same buckets of half inch nylon 3 strand (spare anchor line) for over 20 yrs.
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Simple intit?
I've always just pulled the stern or ski line into the boat hand over hand and let it fall between my legs to a container or straight to the deck. If you know what you're doing, how it comes it, so it will go out.
..the trees survive, patch up the damage and live on.
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Yes they do. Trees cozy up and rub together in the wind for decades without killing themselves. I never advocated abuse or a blasé attitude towards the preservation of and respect for, any nature.
 
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Thanks everyone for the ideas and suggestions, didn't realize we had so many Mcgyvers out there. Lots to think about. I've talked to a few fellow boaters, and the general consensus is they very seldom actually use the stern tie, and when they do its when the anchorage is very steep and use the tie to keep the anchor set.
Like many have said, if it's to prevent swing in a rather crowded anchorage they look elsewhere. We have only stern tied one time and that was with a single line. And that was an ordeal.
So I've ordered a 600 ft. spool of 3/8 Poly and a cheap hose real. During our trip up north this year, if in need, we will let you know how it works out.
Thank you all again.
 
I use 1/4 inch poly 3 braid. Carry a couple thousand feet. Personally I choose the stern tie as the week link. Forgivable in a pinch. I like to cruise remote areas and anchor / lock the boat down where most will not.

In a protected anchorage one most use as a destination, I use different set ups for a tie to shore. Never found a one type set up working for all occasions. YMMV

Deep water, backed into a secluded bay just out of the wind.I set two stern lines , then winch the gear taunt. Allows me to position the boat and hold it in place

My point is don't be too afraid of changing thoughts up to better suit conditions, areas etc

Random thoughts
 
Most of the tree damage articles and studies I've seen over the years were focussed on the arbutus which has thin, paper-like bark and a vulnerable trunk. Because of where it grows it can often be a tempting "anchor" for someone's stern tie line.

However bark damage is bark damage and while a tree may make an effort to repair the damage it offers a foothold to insects and disease.

Humans have perfected the art of excusing away virtually any behavior even if that behavior is detrimental to some other living thing. "Never seen any damage," "things heal themselves" and "been doing it for years and never seen a problem" are classic examples which, while contrary to the findings of deliberate, carefully conducted studies and research often carried out over many years, make the behavior "okay" in the minds of people to whom convenience and habit are more important than the well-being of something other than themselves.

A fair number of the problems on this planet, not just the health of coastal trees, are tied directly to this attitude I think.

We don't stern tie very often because our current time limitations restrict where we're able to go with our PNW cruising boat. But when we do we find it takes little more effort to do it with no impact on the shoreline than to make convenience the number one priority over everything else.

I certainly don't expect anyone to change what they currently do. I learned a long time ago that this is wishful thinking. One of my favorite truisms I've mentioned other times came from a woman who when we were all very young was our floor director at the television station in Honolulu where we worked. Years later in an e-mail exchange about people we'd worked with I enquired about a particular person I'd heard nothing about since leaving Hawaii. I wrote something like, "What's ______ doing these days? Has he changed from the way he used to be?"

My friend wrote back, "Oh Marin, you know people don't change. They just get more of the same."

If there is one thing I've learned for sure in my life thus far it's that she's right.

Somebody on this forum-- I suspect it was psneeld-- made an astute comment in one of the endless "best anchor" threads and that was that no matter what was said in the thread, no matter how eloquently people wrote in favor of their favorite anchor or anchoring technique, it would not cause a single person to change what they currently do, how they do it, and why they believe in it.

I believe the situation is the same with regards to stern tying to shore.:)
 
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Over the past couple of decades I can't remember having to use a big old live tree for a stern line. Sure enough that big old tree sticks out. BUT

The actual loads on the stern line simply do not require it. Just be careful of looping a stern line around that big old log up on the beach

Yup you could end up with a boat wrapped up in floatsom

Fun times. I think they call that pleasure cruising.
 
Does anybody use a lunch hook instead of the shore tie. I would think just nudging up to the beach (or nearly so) .. dropping a good small anchor w 1/4" rode and backing out to deploy the main would be much less trouble. No dinghy dink"in around and no leaving the boat.
 
Amazing how those little peaceful rocks on the shore become very big, tough to walk on and encrusted with sharp barnacles up close. Then throw in an all too common downpour :eek:
 
koliver said:
Marin's towel would be back aboard and not useful to protect his rope when this typically happens.
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True. But the few times we've had to put a line around a tree it dropped to the ground the moment we released the bitter end from its cleat. And with no pressure on the line anymore and the bitter end simply floating in the water there has been no pressure against the bottom of the trunk, or at least no more than running one's hand around the tree.

Sure the bitter end of the line could get caught on something as we pulled it in but so far that hasn't happened. However to date most of the few times we've had to stern tie there have been metal rings to use; Butchart Cove, Princess Cove, etc.
 
manyboats said:
Does anybody use a lunch hook instead of the shore tie. I would think just nudging up to the beach (or nearly so) .. dropping a good small anchor w 1/4" rode and backing out to deploy the main would be much less trouble. No dinghy dink"in around and no leaving the boat.
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Beach?

If there was one, sure. Well, maybe.
 
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