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Old 03-03-2016, 02:17 PM   #21
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Old 03-03-2016, 02:21 PM   #22
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WXX3,
So, I should spent a few boat bucks to haul it to water, give it the once over, then if not satisfied, a few more boat bucks to haul it back to where I got it.

Maybe it's not worth the hassle. The people that own the boat want it out of their hands, but i wouldn't want to spend 5-6 boat bucks just to find out if the engines and transmissions were in operating order.
I'm gonna call the Volvo mechanic that I found and see what he has to say about it.
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Old 03-03-2016, 02:29 PM   #23
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OK,
Is a mechanic available? yes.
The boat was moved inland due to Health reasons of the original owner. His family was paying for a slip that the boat was in, without it being used, so a financial decision was made to move the boat to their farm, where it has been since 2014. After his passing away, they were "stuck" with the boat, because no one in the family is interested in it. It is for sale now because the "farm" where it is being stored is up for sale.

That was why i asked the question about starting the engines on the hard. If the engines can be run for the mechanics survey, then I would believe that more than likely they would operate properly. My thoughts are this... To by the boat without a sea trial, I agree that this is not the best situation. The engines, transmissions, and drive are the biggest chunk of what scares me abut the deal. There is some room for negotiation in the price.
I was more concerned with how much a mechanic would be able to tell me without there being a sea trial. Based on what I am hearing, not much more than I could figure out myself.
I know enough about the rest of the boat systems to make a decision based on the surveyors input. The question was more about the engines than the entire boat.
Well, there should be questions on the entire boat. The hull, every mechanical item, electronics, pumps, impellers. But then as to the engines, I'd value them as zero and assume their replacement necessary. Were they winterized? You don't know. How much water sitting in them? How much rust? (That you can see a little of on land). But no real way to discern their condition on land. When a boat is taken to land and sits there for two years, until proven otherwise it's salvage pricing.

As to negotiation, you're basically playing Russian Roulette so it's whatever you feel your luck for the day is. What I would offer would anger them. However, rest assured, those who go around looking for boats like this and then reconditioning them pay very low prices. They assume the worst.

They may have felt the right financial decision was moving it to the farm, but it wasn't.
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Old 03-03-2016, 02:40 PM   #24
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Advice? Opinions? Cautions?
Asked for and provided, by many.
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Old 03-03-2016, 02:51 PM   #25
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I'll second getting a good marine diesel mechanics to check out engine and transmission. You didn't state the age of the boat, but 1700 hours on a diesel is not that much. Sea age is more important. My 10 year old Nordic Tug's Cummins has 1659 hours on it, about 170 hours per season (New England). Not a high number of hours, but it's not sitting around from May to November, and it's well maintained. Even so, s..t happens and things wear out (water pump, alternator). I'd be more concerned if the boat was 20 years old or older. Needing to polish the fuel indicates an older boat sitting around. On older boats with low hours, engines and components rust out before wearing out.

Has the engine been properly maintained and did previous owner have a detailed maintenance log? You're in South Carolina. Is this a local boat? Does it get stored and winterized? It's common to winterize boats up here, and running the engine on the hard is a standard practice. Pop the cover off the raw water strainer, throw in a garden hose (some of us have a fresh water connector on the filter), and run the engine, just not at high or wide-open throttle. You can even engage the transmission, just make sure nobody's around the prop Belts and hose should be checked and replaced if necessary. Oil and filters, water pump impellers, yes. Based on age, heat exchangers, aftercoolers, and oil and fuel coolers need to be checked/cleaned. The list goes on. A good Volvo mechanic would know what to check.
This is more what I was looking for. I was looking for answers to what (if anything) that a marine mechanic would be able to do and tell me about the engines. I have a call in to the mechanic, and waiting for a return call.

The boat is in SC, and was winterized before pulling it. I did find that much out, it is a 1981.
It has been stored in a cattle barn on their farm since it was moved there.
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Old 03-03-2016, 02:52 PM   #26
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Might want to have a survey done, excluding an engine survey. If more than 10 years hoses belts heat exchanger, zincs, bottom paint cutlass bearing, shaft log, thru hulls also the dc and ac wiring.



Most can be done with the boat in the water and a diver.

What do you recommend regarding ac and dc wiring for a 10 year old boat?
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Old 03-03-2016, 04:15 PM   #27
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Tolly built a 34 from about 1970 until, I believe, 1992.
Volvo TMD40A was in production from 1976 to 1985.

So at the very best those engines are 30, at worst 40 years old.
A 30 to 40 year old engine with 1700 hours (less than 50 per year) that has sat for 2 years is something I would walk away from even if it would turn over and we haven't even addressed the volumes of posts on here about lack of parts for old Volvos.

Pay market for a 40 year old FG hull. Market being whatever you are willing to pay. There won't be a lineup or bidding war for it. Plus, it would seem like the owners/estate don't really know what it is.
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Old 03-03-2016, 04:35 PM   #28
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Since it was stored in a barn for that long I would be concerned with mice/rats/vermin getting inside and messing up things. Look for droppings and other signs.
Just another thing to consider.
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Old 03-03-2016, 04:59 PM   #29
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Since it was stored in a barn for that long I would be concerned with mice/rats/vermin getting inside and messing up things. Look for droppings and other signs.
Just another thing to consider.
They do very much like to gnaw through wires and also rubber.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:05 PM   #30
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If you really like the boat, get a mechanic and have him ck the engines. Power up all the 110v/12v systems and ck them out. If satisfied buy it, but remember, a new or rebuilt engine and trans will run you over 20K plus $$$$ all the other related systems that have to be changed along with it. I own a '83 Volvo TAMD40B and I have not had any trouble getting parts although, I've only needed to change the circulating water pump, pump pulley, alt. adjusting brackets($850) and zincs-1500hrs when I bought it. My boat sat 4 years in the water, run once or twice a month in the slip when the marina owner thought about it. PO was in bad health. Soooo-make your offer accordingly. Their are lots of boats out there that you could do a honest sea trial, survey, etc. Determine how much work you want to put into it. With all that being said, I wouldn't buy it unless I could steal it.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:12 PM   #31
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Look in the barn for a vintage 1957 Chevy convertible with the 283 FI Corvette engine. Very few made and well worth the investment.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:29 PM   #32
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SDmike, I did the very same thing as your contemplating doing. Bought a boat from the estate that was on the hard for 2 years or so. No sea trial, no engine run. I don't mind risk as long as I know what risk I'm taking. Price will dictate the degree of risk your willing to take in my opinion. I did a lot of homework to minimize the risk. It turned out fine in my case, tread lightly.
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Old 03-03-2016, 06:54 PM   #33
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Thanks guys,

I have decided to steer clear of it. I agree that without a sea trial it would be a big chance that I'm not willing to risk at this time.
The AC/DC systems were on the bottom of my concerns since I am a marine electrician. Not being familiar with diesels I was glad to see the info coming from a few that were familiar with the engines. From a previous post someone mentioned that volvo parts were expensive. I assume that this was compared to others such as A Lehman.
I did talk to the mechanic and he told me a couple things that got me concerned as well.
Just isn't in the cards, so walking away........
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:52 PM   #34
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Mike:

Here is my experience, offered only for what is is worth.

In 2000 I replaced my TMD40 engines with TAMD41s. I sold the old engines privately, to a fisherman who needed them in a great hurry. That hurry meant I had no time to schedule the swap to be done by my trusted mechanic. I was on my own. I scheduled a haulout for a Sunday afternoon and had the swap done by Tuesday afternoon. I was able to get my mechanic to do the startup, just to be sure my installation was correct. The boat was out of the water, so he brought in a garden hose, opened the strainers and, one at a time, put the garden hose into the strainer and turned on the water. some overflowed into the bilge, but when the engine was started, the overflow diminished and water came out of the exhaust, just as if the boat was in the water. He spent a while checking things over, shut the engine down and moved to the second engine. The whole process for both engines took about 1/2 an hour. The engines may have been put in gear, I don't recall, but there is a bypass hose from the heat exchanger that feeds seawater to the shaft log, so that, at least, was getting wet. The outside cutless bearing would not have gotten wet. In any event, no biggie, as everything has worked properly for the next many years.

On buying the 41s, on my mechanic's advice, and because they had 1500 hours on them at the time, I pulled the injectors and sent them in for inspection and, if needed, rebuilding. I think the shop got their instructions messed up, as they missed the inspection and went right to rebuild on all 12 injectors. Also an oil analysis and changed the oil and filter on each, new fuel filters too. Otherwise, new belts, pulled and cleaned the Hxs, checked and replaced hoses as needed, and good to go.

No, I am not a mechanic. Out of necessity, I messed around lots with my cars as a kid, so lost any fear of disassembly then.
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:57 PM   #35
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Koliver,
You didn't say why you wanted to do the swap. If they were in running condition , just wondering why the change... more hp?
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Old 03-03-2016, 08:30 PM   #36
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There is some room for negotiation in the price.
There is no way I would pay to move that boat to a suitable location just to do a sea trial.

I think you are looking at this all wrong.... They will not be able to unload this boat in its current situation unless they are essentially giving it away. It simply is not worth much where it sits. I would suggest letting the owners know of the problems in trying to purchase a boat in its current condition and situation. They can't compare this boat to other similar boats that are located in the water.

If I was really interested in this boat, I would make them an incredibly low offer. I would first figure out what the value of that boat in good condition in your home waters. From that, subtract the cost of moving the boat to your home waters, the cost of repairing any flaws that you can see with the boat on the hard, and finally, subtract the cost of a complete repower. If the number you get is above 0, then that is what I would offer. If the number is less than 0, tell them you will take the boat off their hands and move it for them if they pay you that much.

It doesn't sound like there is any way to make this deal fit into what most of us would think of as a typical boat purchase. As you can see, most members here wouldn't consider it. I think it is worth considering if you like the boat and are willing to find that it is in truly terrible shape. If you do as I outline above, your risk is pretty limited (other than time and opportunity costs), but if you get lucky and the engine and running gear just need some TLC and repair, then you have been well rewarded for being willing to take that risk.
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Old 03-03-2016, 08:50 PM   #37
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So I am concerned about the requirements to have a engine survey as well. I have been told by two surveyors that engine survey will cost $1000 and all they will do is take oil samples, Mondor engine temperatures, and watch the engines while running. It would seem to me that it would make more sense to take my own samples, monitor the engines as well as temperatures, and if there is an issue during the sea trial then bring in an engine surveyor.

I am looking at buying a 2003 boat with twin Cummins six BTA's with less than 1100 hrs. The owners, both pilots, have Meticulous maintenance records and have done all required services. All services performed by a professional mechanic.

So I am wondering, what I will get out of having a mechanic watch the engines during the sea trial that could be worth $1000. This engine survey seems like good work if you can get it.

Thanks in advance for any insights,

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Old 03-03-2016, 09:09 PM   #38
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.....

I am looking at buying a 2003 boat with twin Cummins six BTA's with less than 1100 hrs. The owners, both pilots, have Meticulous maintenance records and have done all required services. All services performed by a professional mechanic.

So I am wondering, what I will get out of having a mechanic watch the engines during the sea trial that could be worth $1000. This engine survey seems like good work if you can get it.

Gordon
If all you expect of the mechanic is "watch the engines", be your own mechanic, watch them yourself. What if "watching" reveals something indicating further tests and checks, is whatever that is within your knowledge and expertise?
My experience of a mechanical engine survey goes way beyond "watching", and was not the $1000 rip off you imply,he was even present when the boat was lifted and checked the running gear, and he charged nowhere near $1000.
I would not buy without a mechanical survey, but as a buyer, you have a choice.
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:47 PM   #39
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Bruce, I did not say that that was all I expected. I was told it that's what I could expect. You have not described to me what was done during your mechanical survey. I was told by Buy an experienced surveyor and broker that was all that I would and could expect. And I am not sure what I will learn from a mechanic looking at the prop shaft and prop that I can't figure out. I'm not trying to be argumentative but trying to figure out what it is they hope to catch it and how they could be worth $1000.I have to say I would be far more concerned if these engines had three or 4000 hours on them that I do with only 1100 hrs.

I was set until today on having an engine survey, but when I learn how little was being done for so much money I figured it was not worth the effort.


Any insights would be appreciated.


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Old 03-03-2016, 10:00 PM   #40
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Bruce, I did not say that that was all I expected. I was told it that's what I could expect. You have not described to me what was done during your mechanical survey. I was told by Buy an experienced surveyor and broker that was all that I would and could expect. And I am not sure what I will learn from a mechanic looking at the prop shaft and prop that I can't figure out. I'm not trying to be argumentative but trying to figure out what it is they hope to catch it and how they could be worth $1000.I have to say I would be far more concerned if these engines had three or 4000 hours on them that I do with only 1100 hrs.

I was set until today on having an engine survey, but when I learn how little was being done for so much money I figured it was not worth the effort.


Any insights would be appreciated.


Gordon
Well, all you were told does for me is make me no longer trust the knowledge of the surveyor or the broker and think they're promoting their own agendas. This broker didn't choose your surveyor by any chance did he?

Here's an interesting discussion of engine surveys from Steve D'Antonio. The Art of the Engine Survey | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

Toward the bottom of the page he lists what you should ask for in a survey.

Here is an excellent document on engine surveys with a very comprehensive list of tasks to be done:

http://www.seasidemarinesurveyors.co...l%20Engine.pdf
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