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Old 09-27-2010, 05:52 PM   #1
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Stabilizing sails

Are stabilizing sails worthwhile?*

For those having a rig, under what circumstances do you use it.* Does it help much?

For those that don't, are there times you wish you did?
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:27 PM   #2
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Stabilizing sails

They are usually used for keeping the bow pointing into the wind at anchorage. Helping to reduce roll in a beam sea...not so much! Besides, why would we want our beer sliding across the table?

Ray

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Monday 27th of September 2010 06:28:09 PM
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:38 PM   #3
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Yes but in a beam sea and wind you're going to lean over like a sailboat and * ..well,there goes the beer. May be easier to control though.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:10 AM   #4
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RE: Stabilizing sails

"Yes but in a beam sea and wind you're going to lean over like a sailboat ."

Leaning over perhaps 5-8 deg and rolling back to upright is better than rolling 20 deg P&S with each passing beam sea.

The question is IF the sail is big enough to work in modest winds , it will need to be really strong to hold in a breeze.

1 sq ft of sail in a 17K breeze makes one pound of force, 4lbs in 34K.

Once the mast gets big and strong the question becomes either ,
should it help with propulsion ,
or is it now strong enough to set flopper stoppers for a better roll free ride?

Compromise ,,,
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:15 PM   #5
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Quote:
Giggitoni wrote:

They are usually used for keeping the bow pointing into the wind at anchorage. Helping to reduce roll in a beam sea...not so much! Besides, why would we want our beer sliding across the table?

Ray

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Monday 27th of September 2010 06:28:09 PM
I'm thinking about getting one for Pioneer. The mast has all the fittings, halyard etc. and the boom even has an outhaul fitted. The mast is*17ft high and the boom is*13ft long.

The*use would primarily be at anchor -*with a forward wheelhouse, Pioneer sails around on her anchor a bit.
Should the sail have any shape in it, or be totally flat like a tarpaulin? Won't a shaped sail flog when pointing directly into the wind?

Any experience would be a great help.
*
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:55 PM   #6
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RE: Stabilizing sails

I put it up when ever we anchor - help alot with the sailing at anchor, plus keeps the bow into the wind waves.

for steadying - it is too small - I have tried it in up to 25knt winds with moderate dampening.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:21 PM   #7
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Great looking boat but that really is a small sail. I have been talking on this site and others for the last two years about adding a condiderably larger mast to my boat just forward of the windows. I could fly as much as 350+- sq ft of sail. I think this spring will be the year I do it.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:43 PM   #8
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RE: Stabilizing sails

A trawler will tend to "swim" at anchor depending on the snub / bridle / wind conditions, but the only time that bothered me was when the snubber was rubbing on something and causing a noise that kept those in the foreward cabin wide awake.* I have seen sailboats with a mizzen raise it partially to keep them flying straight in an anchorage however.* They kept it close hauled and tight, no bag in the sail.

I doubt a sail will help in a beam sea.* I had considered buying a boat with outriggers/fish and now I'm glad I didn't buy it even though it looked cool at the time.* But if one spends a lot of time in beam sea, the outrigger/stabilizer is the way to go I think.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:20 PM   #9
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Quote:
Daddyo wrote:

Great looking boat but that really is a small sail. I have been talking on this site and others for the last two years about adding a condiderably larger mast to my boat just forward of the windows. I could fly as much as 350+- sq ft of sail. I think this spring will be the year I do it.
Something like this?



*
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:22 PM   #10
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RE: Stabilizing sails

The sail for anchoring should be totally flat and cut on a curve from point to point. Otherwise it will flog in any kind of wind and will keep you awake at night.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:36 PM   #11
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RE: Stabilizing sails

That's what I figured, thanks Keith.
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:15 AM   #12
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Art Krogen designed a steadying sail for use at anchor. I used to have a drawing, but can't find it right now. It flew completely aft of the boat, from the end of the* boom down to the upper deck. It wasn't a triangle, more like a quick curve out, then down at the top, not quite rectangular. You can see where it would fly from my picture at the left.

BTW, anybody out there have that drawing? I sure would appreciate it.
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Old 09-29-2010, 07:21 AM   #13
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Being an ex-sailor I can advise that if you vessel sails about at anchor, then a small very taut sail as far aft as possible will act like the fletching on an arrow and keep her head to wind at anchor well, but anything bigger on anything other than a properly designed motor-sailor - forget it in my view - not worth the expense and hassle. I noticed after we added the large cockpit canopy extension to Lotus, including along the side decks, her behaviour at anchor improved quite a bit for the same reason. Why not consider then making that extra canvas useful as well for shade? I see you have no side deck or cockpit cover Jeff. It was the best thing we've done to our boat.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:11 PM   #14
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Stabilizing sails

So it was not between the mast and the boom, but between the boom and the roof?* So the point was toward the*bow, horizontal and not up in the air, vertical?* *That is an interest idea as it would*put the sail*way back to the stern*


*

*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 29th of September 2010 12:13:09 PM
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:24 PM   #15
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RE: Stabilizing sails

cut on a curve from point to point.

Head to clew outhaul in sailmaker speak.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:20 PM   #16
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Thanks Peter,
We don't really want a cover over the cockpit as we do a lot of fishing and the 1m oiverhang is enough for us.

I was thinking of hanking a small sail onto the topping lift and sheeting it*forward to the goose neck - really just filling about half the*space available - but that would put the centre of effort well aft.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:40 PM   #17
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RE: Stabilizing sails

FF: these here are Trawler folk. Don't confuse with sailors. Don't use too much of that unintelligible sailorspeak. Splice the main brace and all! (Head to clew to tack. The pointy parts. Each should be cut concave to eliminate flogging, and not the cat o nine tails kind)

Peter: A horizontal deployed sail won't work, as the point of the sail is to keep head to wind. so it depends on side forces to push on the sail and thus point the bow into wind. A horizontally deployed sail (your cockpit cover) acts no different to the wind no matter which side it is blowing from. Any effect you see is simply from the extra windage being further aft.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:14 AM   #18
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Here is a shot I took last year of what a lot of lobstermen do in Maine when they leave their boats on a mooring. The far aft placement of a relatively large sail does a good job of keeping the boats pointed into the wind. However a lobsterboat has relatively little superstructure to catch the wind, so the sail is quite effective (I was told). The simple mast and boom is easily stowed (or taken ashore) when the boat is working.

The steady sail that can be mounted on the mast and boom of a typical recreational trawler is mainly effective at looking cool, if you're into that sort of thing. According to people with GBs I know that have and use them, they reduce the hunting on a mooring or at anchor to a degree, but they don't reduce it enough to make a huge difference. The mast on a typical trawler is not mounted aft enough to make a steady sail truly effective, particularly not the small sails that will fit the typical "trawler" mast and boom.

The people I've talked to who use a steady sail to reduce yawing on a mooring have told me that a stern anchor actually does a much better job. Which is what we use when necessary.

As to damping out roll in a beam sea, sure, they'll have some effect but again, everyone I've talked to who has and uses a steady sail has told me that in terms of damping roll, they don't contribute anything noticeable. They can, however, put a tremendous strain on the stays and mast mounting hardware to the point where I've talked to a couple of people who had their whole mast toppled on a windy, big-wave day on the Strait of Georgia. The stays and hardware on the typical "trawler" mast are strong enough to support the mast and maybe a 200-pound dinghy but that's about it. So if one is contemplating using a steady sail to dampen roll in anything other than a ight breeze and small waves, it would probably be a good idea to get a good analysis of the bracing hardware's ability to stand up to the load.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:23 AM   #19
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RE: Stabilizing sails

With a boat as shallow as a lobster boat it must be left on a mooreing in the same state as the other near by boats.

Should you force the boat to respond to the wind , when all the others are responding to the current , CRASHES (slow speed) are the result.

That's why places with large mooring field seperiate the rag baggers from the marine motorists.

With huge top hamper the motorist boats are very wind borne , with deep keels the baggers boats follow the current.

Something to contemplate on the next tight anchorage that is intergrated.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:47 AM   #20
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RE: Stabilizing sails

Koliver wrote....
"Peter: A horizontal deployed sail won't work, as the point of the sail is to keep head to wind. so it depends on side forces to push on the sail and thus point the bow into wind. A horizontally deployed sail (your cockpit cover) acts no different to the wind no matter which side it is blowing from. Any effect you see is simply from the extra windage being further aft."

Yes - exactly - that's how it works, extra windage further aft, countering the effects of the windage of the cabin front & flybridge, but it does have enough effect to set her much steadier head to wind, without at the same time interfering with the ability to respond like similar boats around her to the current, if wind light, and current stronger, as FF quite rightly points out.
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