Stabilizers worth the dough?

[twistedtree]

Here is a detailed account of a stabilizer retrofit in a 47' Grand Banks. Please note that it's one of the newer Grand Banks with a full planing hull, 20+ kt boat.

Adventures of Tanglewood: Installing Stabilzers on a 47' Grand Banks

I have to disagree about them being ineffective on a planing hull. I though they were great. It's true that if you are on a full plane, the hull wants to stay parallel to the water surface, but frankly that's part of the problem because as you traverse waves, the hull wants to roll with them. It's at a very different tempo on a planing hull, and less objectionable, but they still roll and stabilizers still cut it way down.

But, where stabilizers really shined on our Grand Banks was in a wallowing sea moving between 8 and 15 kts. As others have said, stabilizers don't help with pitch, but they substantially reduce the roll and let you go out when you would otherwise turn around and return with your tail between your legs.

 

[No Mast]

Do people look to stabilization because they are prone to sea sickness? Just wondering... I can't come to terms with the cost, another service item on the boat, risk of banging a fin on something and compromising the hull compared to the benefit, unless one cannot go boating because of motion sickness then I'm sure they are welcome.

Not in our case, and I do not believe this to be the case in general either. Btw, the fins are designed to break off long before the hull would be compromised.

 

[BandB]

Do people look to stabilization because they are prone to sea sickness? Just wondering... I can't come to terms with the cost, another service item on the boat, risk of banging a fin on something and compromising the hull compared to the benefit, unless one cannot go boating because of motion sickness then I'm sure they are welcome.

I think a lot of people don't realize how much they can reduce seasickness, but they definitely can. Now we do give first timers meds, but we've not yet had anyone to get seasick on our boat.

They reduce discomfort in total and even fear. Often in rough water one is reacting to the pitch and roll and not to a real safety factor. We talk about the boat being able to handle much more than the captain or passengers can and this is part of it. If I can make 6' feel more like 2' then I feel much safer.

With a properly designed and installed fin, the risk of compromising the hull should be very minimal.

Yes, they are another service item on the boat. I would add a couple of thousand dollars a year to my annual budget on boats 60' and under.

 

[BandB]

A couple of other comments. We mentioned seasickness where they can definitely help, even though many don't think of them in that regard. On board injuries and breakage, both people and possessions is another area. Even less wear and tear on the boat and equipment. (My wife just told me to add "less loss of water out of the hot tub". I would go beyond that and say in general just more freedom to enjoy oneself on deck while cruising).

More freedom to use the boat itself. Conditions that will keep you in without them, may not do so with them. Easier routing and greater speed flexibility. You don't find yourself tacking like a sailboat as often or otherwise adjusting your route. You also find yourself with more flexibility as to speed as you're not so focused on the most comfortable speed since there isn't such a difference in it and other speeds.

 

[Drake]

Bayview,

Thank you for your response. I perhaps did not word my question as well as I might have. My real question has to do with how much ride improvement I will get out of stabilizers on a semi displacement hull.I have I have been on a Katie Krogen 48 and understand the need for stabilizers there. But I am unsure if ride improvement will be significant on a boat like an ocean Alexander drawing 4 feet and having hard Chines.

Thanks again for any and all insights.

Gordon

There are several pretty good videos on Youtube that show roll with stabilizers off, then on. That will give you a pretty good idea of the effect.

 

[eyschulman]

Depends where and how you boat. Protected water boaters can do without. Also consider a gyroscope system it is more versatile will work at anchor and no hull fins.

 

[Tom.B]

consider a gyroscope system it is more versatile will work at anchor and no hull fins.

From what I have read, the gyro type take a crap-ton of power to run, take a long time to spool-up, and take up a lot of bilge space. Not completely practical for most members here, but gosh-golly, I would love to have one. That is for sure!

 

[caltexflanc]

Not in our case, and I do not believe this to be the case in general either. Btw, the fins are designed to break off long before the hull would be compromised.

This.

Seasickness isn't the issue at all. You still have pitch, heave and yaw that will cause that if someone is prone to it. For me the value is being better able to safely walk around the boat underway, and of not shaking up and stressing the contents and components of the boat any more than they need be.

 

[JDCAVE]

In my career, I spent many days, sometimes weeks on commercial fishing vessels on the west coast, from the US San Juans to, Dixon entrance, including off shore on the west coast of Vancouver Island. None of these vessels had active fin stabilization. From this experience I learned that a) I would try to avoid travel in bad weather if possible, b) I didn't want to tie $20-50,000 of potential boat buying $ into active fin stabilization and c) ideal would be passive poles and paravanes as these are commonly used on many of the commercial vessels I had experienced. KK42's with active fin stabilization "seem" to be priced about $20-30k higher than those without. We ultimately purchased a KK42 with poles and paravanes. At the time, she was the best KK42 available, and...bonus!...she had poles and paravanes.

The KK42 will roll like a tortoise on its back in a beam sea. And yet, we tend to do most of our traveling without the P&P's, as we gain about a 1/2 knot in speed.

So the question you might want to ask yourself is: do you want to tie $20-50,000 of potential boat buying $ into active fin stabilization? You might find that you can work around the windows of weather and sea-state otherwise.

I should add that P&P's work well on full displacement hulls but may not be suitable on planning hulls.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[No Mast]

Personally I wouldn't buy a trawler without stabilizers unless I was just looking to do protected ICW runs.

 

[drb1025]

My wife's roll threshold is easily exceeded without stabilizers on. We can enjoy the boat much more with them. They are worth the dough to us.

 

[BandB]

This.

Seasickness isn't the issue at all. You still have pitch, heave and yaw that will cause that if someone is prone to it. For me the value is being better able to safely walk around the boat underway, and of not shaking up and stressing the contents and components of the boat any more than they need be.

Actually seasickness is an issue and stabilizers tend to reduce it greatly. As to the pitch, heave and yaw, good stabilizers do allow you to adjust speed and direction to reduce that plus they make the pitch more in a line.

 

[caltexflanc]

Actually seasickness is an issue and stabilizers tend to reduce it greatly. As to the pitch, heave and yaw, good stabilizers do allow you to adjust speed and direction to reduce that plus they make the pitch more in a line.

No, that is wrong. Think about it. Think about what directions seas come from and their effect on the boat. And a fin stabilizer and at least the gyros I've seen (Seakeepers) can't control yaw or heave either, just look at their design.

The chance of seasickness may be reduced a little, but not greatly unless roll is the only motion involved. I've seen that over the course of a variety of guests on my boat and four or five others.
As reminder it is motion sickness. Cars and airliners don't roll, but people get motion sickness, for instance. It's all an inner ear phenomena.

We loved our Naiads but they have their limitations. And the difference the Seakeepers make in a sportfish on the drift are fantastic, since boats lay abeam to the seas. But they too have their limitations.

 

[rking]

Stabilizer worth the bough

Added wesmar fins spring 2015 on my 48 ocean Alexander semi d , works very good and roll has been reduced greatly in beam seas also greatly reduces roll in all other seas , pitching is not helped in head seas ,but roll is much less. Put 4.5 s.f. But changed to 7.5 s.f. to be more effective at hull speed. Cost approximate $50,000 but to me well worth the cost as can use boat when I have the time more. Not that much $ when I consider boat cost and cost of ownership. I did consider the sea keeper system but room,gen run, spin up time, was not good for my sizes boat. I can turn the fins on and off on the go within seconds. Also fins are designed to break off shaft at an impact before any damage to shaft. Just my thoughts on my limited experience so far.

 

[sunchaser]

A few years ago I was shopping for vessels and ran across a nearly new Selene 57. It was not equipped with stabilizers. The boat languished for a long time on the market as other stabilized Selenes around it sold well.

Finally the Selene group selling it added stabilizers, voila and within weeks, it was snapped up. The market place speaks. People looking for an expensive blue water capable newer vessel expect stabilizers. Overwhelmingly it would seem. There is a reason. They work.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
While looking for our current boat one of the things on my "don't want" list was stabilizers due to anecdotal information (expensive to service, potential sinking if a fin broke off etc.). Well, you guessed it, the boat we bought DID have stabilizers (Naiad) and it DID cost $$ to have the seals and bearings replaced BUT the difference with them on and off is worth the service costs IMO. Now, as to whether or not I'd spend $50K to have them added is a totally different question.

We did a sea trial on a sister ship without stab's and she rolled in her own wake like a drunken sailor (round chine, FD hull). Tough call especially with the initial costs involved.

As to whether or not you need them on a "rolly" boat? Probably not for the occasional passing wake or occasional transit of an ICW inlet but it all depends on you.

 

[markpierce]

Observe many cruise ship passengers wear neck patches even when ship movement is nearly imperceptible. Don't know what proportion are just taking precaution as opposed those experiencing nausea. Find a cruise ship makes me drowsy without the drugs.

 

[BandB]

Observe many cruise ship passengers wear neck patches even when ship movement is nearly imperceptible. Don't know what proportion are just taking precaution as opposed those experiencing nausea. Find a cruise ship makes me drowsy without the drugs.

I think it's pretty standard if it's their first time to encourage them wearing the patches. Now, if they don't get sick, I see most likely to wear one next time since it worked before.

 

[dimer2]

The patches should be worn in the nape of the neck, that way if they fail to work they at least provide cushioning for the toilet seat

 

[Mako]

A fellow we know had these installed. Gyro Gale Stabilizers | Marine Stabilizers for Yachts
Cost was 1/3 less than Niads. They work at zero speed as well. They use compressed air, no hydraulics. I never heard of them before.

I received a quotation for these and the price is basically the same as for traditional hydraulic versions. They also spec'd out a 4 fin unit which has the capability of reducing pitch to some degree as well and function as zero-speed (at anchor). That unit got expensive of course.

 

[Wruckus]

I bought a 1987 MT 38 Europa equipped with Gyro-Gales. All pneumatic. Zero electric. No software. 2 fin system. I cross the Gulf of Mexico often as I run from TN summers to FL winters. I can tell you that the system is amazingly effective and trouble free. Single belt driver Haldex air compressor, oiler, tank, air driven gyro and air dryer. In 2-4 foot aft quartering seas or beam seas I estimate they eliminate 70% to 85% of roll. Trouble free system. Low cost of maintenance and the support you'll get from Mr Metwally at GG is first class and second to none. Takes the worry out of rolling seas. I suspect the cost to install is hard to beat as well.