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Old 08-15-2012, 05:31 PM   #61
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I found ABT to be pretty inept in sales process but peerless in engineering excellence and follow on support. just depends on which characteristics are most important to you.
Niad and Wesmar have pretty good reps in those departments as well...have you heard or experienced differentlt?
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:18 PM   #62
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Niad and Wesmar have pretty good reps in those departments as well...have you heard or experienced differentlt?

Actually I've tried to find customers that were not satisfied, just to see what the issues are.

I have not been able to find any customers that are not 100% happy with any brand of stabilizer, except for some issues with the air driven brand.

Thats a good sign
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:55 PM   #63
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Niad and Wesmar have pretty good reps in those departments as well...have you heard or experienced differentlt?
Well, yes I have, but I was only referring to my personal experience, and preference for product quality and support over initial sales experience. At the time, and I still think it is true, I rejected Wesmar on the basis that the actuator was taller and appeared less robustly built than the ABT actuator. Compactness is a virtue when you are trying to shoehorn the unit into available space. Additionally, people were complaining that using the VHF when the units were on caused the fins to make sudden and radical movement. I presume this problem has been fixed since it posed a safety threat. Regarding Naiad, Google "problems with Naiads" and you can answer your own question, although here is a quote that probably sums it up:

"Naiads fell out of favor with Nordhavn and were no longer offered by
the mfg on most models from about 2004 and on. Since the move to Trac

systems and a general upsizing of components, quite a number of boats

have made Atlantic and Pacific crossings without stabilizer issues."
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:15 PM   #64
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I really like the look, and specs,of the Side-Power system,
Side-Power bow & stern thrusters - Stabilizer Systems
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:18 PM   #65
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So out of curiosity, are you interested in the roll only or the roll, pitch, and yaw capabilities? Does the same fin/actuator unit do it all and the difference is in the information that is sent to the actuator, or are they two different fin/actuator units altogether?
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:30 PM   #66
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Ships' stabilizers (wing-like appendages sticking out from the hull) affect roll only.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:35 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
So out of curiosity, are you interested in the roll only or the roll, pitch, and yaw capabilities? Does the same fin/actuator unit do it all and the difference is in the information that is sent to the actuator, or are they two different fin/actuator units altogether?
The roll only computer only senses roll. It only has one sensor in it.

The other controller has 3 sensors in it.

The roll only computer samples 1000 times a second.
The 3 axis computer samples 4800 times a second.

Both computers work with the same fins, quantity 2.

The upcharge for the "better" computer is $7500.

I've had my boat in following seas that I will never take my wife out in. Big seas. 10'+ swells as measure by a NOAA bouy, wind waves on top of that of 4'.

My boat does not have a broaching issue, so yaw is not important to me.
Pitching cannot be controlled. Theoretically if the fins are exactly center of the pitch pivot point, fins will have zero effect on pitching.

So, I'm probably not inclined to buy the upgraded computer.

I have a quote back from Wesmar for the standard computer with 4.5SQFT fins at 27K. 29K with the larger 6 sqft fins.

I have direct knowledge from a boat yard that installed this same system on my exact model boat indicating that 4.5 sqft is perfect. I talked to the installer today and he said the effect was amazing. Turn the fins on and the boat stops rolling...completely.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:14 PM   #68
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This sounds good

This the cost of components only right? Will the installer do the work locally?
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:24 PM   #69
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This the cost of components only right? Will the installer do the work locally?

Steve

Thats the component price.

I'm seriously considering hiring out the fiberglass work and doing the rest of the install myself.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:39 PM   #70
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Why not

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Steve

Thats the component price.

I'm seriously considering hiring out the fiberglass work and doing the rest of the install myself.
That seems like a good price for the components. You certainly could do the installation, mine system looks pretty straight forward. Installing the fins might be a bigger project however. When mine were resealed I asked if it was simple enough for me to take on and was told they were pretty heavy and not something you would want to do yourself. Mine are 6' Naids. Which by the way have worked flawlessly. The machinery looks like a fairly simple set up. Maybe have some of it done. Mine automatically center for backing which is something to ask about. They also have surprisingly amount of tow in. There may set up secrets for vessel type and speeds.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:18 AM   #71
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What do flat bottom boats do for stabilization?My boat want have a full keel.It will have strakes along the bottom and very little fore and aft rocker.It will have a V entry bow,but that is in the front 1/4 of the hull.Paravanes(which I don't want) are used and steadying sails(which I am not familiar with) are a possibility.Stabilizers are out of course.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:19 AM   #72
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Wonder how stabilizer fins deal with lobster/crab pots and lines as well as going aground.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:29 AM   #73
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My Wesmars have a knife edge cutter along the top of the fin with a hook on top that will cut anything short of wire rope. I bought the boat with the stabilizers installed, so have no idea of it is part of the unit as supplied by the manufacturer. As for going aground........I have not tried that yet. It probaby wouldn't be fun with or without fins
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:59 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
The roll only computer only senses roll. It only has one sensor in it.

The other controller has 3 sensors in it.

.....snip....

I have direct knowledge from a boat yard that installed this same system on my exact model boat indicating that 4.5 sqft is perfect. I talked to the installer today and he said the effect was amazing. Turn the fins on and the boat stops rolling...completely.
I would make sure I asked what speed the "other" boat usually cruised at. If the guy never slow cruised...maybe those smaller fins were perfect. If he was willing to speed up to get out of the seas and pay the fuel costs (offset by the fact he spent less on fins...maybe a good idea...).

Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples when using another skippers boating habits.

If you did ask, sorry if I insulted you intelligence...I just know how untruthful some boaters are when it comes to performance issues....especially if they made a bad choice and it cost a ton of money..
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:29 AM   #75
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If you did ask, sorry if I insulted you intelligence...I just know how untruthful some boaters are when it comes to performance issues....especially if they made a bad choice and it cost a ton of money..

No, boat owners never tell untruths, or convince themselves that their expensive mod, was just the ticket.

Thats too funny, Thanks!
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #76
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No, boat owners never tell untruths, or convince themselves that their expensive mod, was just the ticket.

Thats too funny, Thanks!
It took MANY years of boating/USCG/marine business to spot the untruth tellers....now it scares me how many are out there!!!
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:39 AM   #77
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My speed on a trip fron San Diego to PV averaged 8.7 kts over 1300 mi. Fuel burn was .97 GPM, which is pretty fair for a 27 ton vessel with fins. These are truthful figures. Not all boaters misunderestimate their performance.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:51 AM   #78
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If you are going to install Hyd hoses , when you have them made be SURE to specify swivel ends on both ends.

Otherwise you may be turning 30 ft of hose to tighten a fitting.

Solid end is not bad on the initial install, but replacing a component becomes a real chore without swivels..
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:48 AM   #79
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My speed on a trip fron San Diego to PV averaged 8.7 kts over 1300 mi. Fuel burn was .97 GPM, which is pretty fair for a 27 ton vessel with fins. These are truthful figures. Not all boaters misunderestimate their performance.
I'm curious if you have any sense of whether parasitic drag of the fins is offset in terms of fuel economy by keeping the hull more upright and slippery through the water when they are on.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:00 AM   #80
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I can only guess based on a short period when my fins had to be pinned to straight while I repaired a bolt housing on the arm actuator. I noticed that my fuel use increased 5-10% without the fins being active. Interesting to note as well that the inactive fins still helped to prevent roll although less than when they were active. A friend once told me that once you have stabilizers you will never want a boat without them. He was correct.
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